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Thread: PPD and OC

  1. #1
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    Just to update everyone on the outdated ordinance in Pontiac Michigan. I was told by the city attorney he is not getting involved in it and i need to hire my own attorney. I was informed by the PPD officers Dorkins and Paramore that open carry is for people who dont have a cpl. I am once again in violation of my cpl. This happend while i was talking to a neighbor and i had 5 witnesses and was told by handing out a tri-fold i was going to get a lot of people in trouble. And oc has alot of grey area and I can be areested and he said you will have your gun taken away from you once again. If im caught driving aroundwith it in the open i can go to jail i thought once i enter my vehicle its considerd concealed. I guess im a magnet for certain officers. About an hour before a female officer drove by me looked at me and smiled and waved no stop its a certain group of officers. Any help would be appreciated ty.

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Do you have any of this audio/video recorded?
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  3. #3
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    Not too bright are they?

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    one i do but didnt come out so i have to get another one he told the lady i was talking to im going to get other people in trouble and i need to go home and put my gun up. PPD gets to a call in about 2hrs

  5. #5
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    English?

    Commas and periods help....


    Like this...
    I do have one recording but it's not very good. I'll have to try to get another. One of the officers told a lady that "He's going to get other people in trouble" and that I "needed to go home and put my gun up".

    PPD's response time for a call is around 2 hours.

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    Sorry i wasnt good in grammar in school. I don't have a recorder anymore i need to get one. He told the individuals i was talking to that i was going to get everyone in trouble by handing out the tri-fold to her. He said OC is a grey area and is only for people without a CPL license. Before it's over i got a feeling there going to arrest me.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    We keep hearing this tripe from officers and CPL instructors that having a CPL means you must conceal if you are carrying. What is the process for getting an Attorney General's Opinion on this? Can MOC contact some state reps. and get them to request an opinion? If we could get Mike Cox to give an official opinion it would go a long way toward putting this claptrap to rest.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

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    ill give him a call personally



  9. #9
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    Could you keep your head low for awhile till we figure out what we as an organization (MOC) are going to do?

  10. #10
    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    army74 wrote:
    ill give him a call personally

    Who, Mike Cox or your state rep.? Calling Cox's office will do no good. The Attorney General's office only issues official opinions at the request of a government official. Theydo NOT issue an opinion if you or I contact them and ask for one.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

  11. #11
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    Bronson wrote:
    We keep hearing this tripe from officers and CPL instructors that having a CPL means you must conceal if you are carrying. What is the process for getting an Attorney General's Opinion on this? Can MOC contact some state reps. and get them to request an opinion? If we could get Mike Cox to give an official opinion it would go a long way toward putting this claptrap to rest.

    Bronson
    Apparently, Michigan Attorney General Mike Cox issued a Directive to Michigan Law Enforcement regarding open carry already. Although I don't remember reading it.

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    BS. CC does not cancel OC rights. Show me which statute needs clarification? None. No AG opinion is needed.

  13. #13
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    I'm sure WE all agree but what we're looking for is a nice piece of paper to show the morons at the PPD just how wrong they are.

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    How low of a profile do you want me to keep. I go out my front door there at the corner. They follow me where i go. So i dont know what else to do. I oc for the safety but if i cc it i may get in trouble again.

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    Continue to attend Pontiac City Council meetings and keep pressure is one option. Legally, it looks like the only way to force city to change Ordinance is Writ Of Mandamus.

    Writ Of Mandamus:

    Page updated on Jun 15, 2010
    A writ of mandamus or mandamus , or sometimes mandate, is the name of one of the prerogative writs in the Common law, and is "issued by a superior court to compel a lower court or a government officer to perform mandatory or purely ministerial duties correctly".

    Mandamus is a Judicial remedy which is in the form of an order from a superior court to any government subordinate court, Corporation or Public authority to do or forbear from doing some specific act which that body is obliged under law to do or refrain from doing, as the case may be, and which is in the nature of public duty and in certain cases of a statutory duty. It cannot be issued to compel an authority to do something against statutory provision.

    Mandamus may be a command to do an administrative action or not to take a particular action, and it is supplemented by legal rights. In the American legal system it must be a judicially enforceable and legally protected right before one suffering a grievance can ask for a mandamus. A person can be said to be aggrieved only when he is denied a Legal right by someone who has a legal duty to do something and abstains from doing it.

    The applicant pleading for the writ of mandamus to be enforced should be able to show that he has a legal right to compel the Respondent to do or refrain from doing the specific act. The duty sought to be enforced must have two qualities It must be a duty of public nature and the duty must be imperative and should not be discretionary.

    This is an example: http://www.bamn.com/doc/2003/031211-...damus-mcri.asp

    Is there any pro-gun attorney who would be willing to do it for free?

  16. #16
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    army74 wrote:
    How low of a profile do you want me to keep. I go out my front door there at the corner. They follow me where i go. So i dont know what else to do. I oc for the safety but if i cc it i may get in trouble again.
    I shouldn't have to answer this but.....

    Do whatever it takes to stay out of jail.

    Don't even spit on the sidewalk.

    Do you have a CPL?

    If so then conceal for awhile. Give MOC the time it needs to help you and try to not make matters worse in the mean time (like getting arrested even on trumped up BS charges)

  17. #17
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    yes i have a cpl and i understand fully

  18. #18
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    this whole thing stinks of a personal vendetta against army
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    I have a license to drive an automobile, I can't drive without it. Does that mean that since I have a DL, I am prohibited from walking, riding a bike or bus then?

    Same logic, or lack of it on their part.


  20. #20
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    smellslikemichigan wrote:
    this whole thing stinks of a personal vendetta against army
    I agree and we all need to help with this one.

    "There, but by the grace of God, go I." For those that don't understand this quote it means. "This could happen to any of us, it's just that he was the unlucky one."

  21. #21
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    100% possibility they will stop by the picnic so i'm still having it.

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    Armhave you contacted your state representative yet? They may be a lot of help to you. Perhaps Michal Bouchard, Cheif for Oakland County Sherriffs, or the State police. I can only imagine how you must feel, but this cannot be allowed to continue. Perhaps a call to attorney Dean Greenblat, he knows what he is doing, and will at least talk you through what needs to be done.

    I think its time to start thinking about a harassment suit or charge, Im not sure how that all works.

    As you know, you can OC legally, if you get in trouble for it you can sue them, and its exactly what needs to happen here.

    Keep your head up my freind, this is a winnable battle.

  23. #23
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    Fallschirmjäger wrote:
    I have a license to drive an automobile, I can't drive without it. Does that mean that since I have a DL, I am prohibited from walking, riding a bike or bus then?

    Same logic, or lack of it on their part.
    You're preaching to the choir.

  24. #24
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    They arent stopping the picnic.

    You absolutely must get a recorder. DanM had one around his neck, and I diddnt even know it was there until he showed it. Youll definately want to keep that hidden.

    Write down in as much detail, every event and interaction with the police that you have had, both in the past, and in the future. Keep names dates and times, this information may prove to be invaluable to you.

  25. #25
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    Thanks everyone it happens to be the same officer as before so. Just for everyones information my State Rep Tim Melton is also friends with the Officer.

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