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Thread: Key Arena and Tacoma Dome?

  1. #1
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    Are these event centers privately owned, or owned by the city?

    I know Key Arena often pats people down for events.

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    TWG2A
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    Key Arena is owned by the City Of Seattle.

    The Tacoma Dome is owned by the City Of Tacoma.



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    TWG2A wrote:
    Key Arena is owned by the City Of Seattle.

    The Tacoma Dome is owned by the City Of Tacoma.

    When events are being held, is the stadium leased out to private parties, who set their own rules? I can't figure out why else they would pat people down, and wave metal detector wands over people.

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    Aaron1124 wrote:
    TWG2A wrote:
    Key Arena is owned by the City Of Seattle.

    The Tacoma Dome is owned by the City Of Tacoma.

    When events are being held, is the stadium leased out to private parties, who set their own rules? I can't figure out why else they would pat people down, and wave metal detector wands over people.
    Correct, which is their "way around" many things such as honoring CPL's and OCers. And, their argument is, when you purchase a ticket for such an event, you agree to their terms, which often excludes any type of carry. Also, for events such as the High School Basketball tourney every year (held at the Tacoma Dome), because it is a school sponsored event, the same rules would apply as if you were going to a high school gymnasium for a b-ball game (e.g. no guns).

    I'm sure m1gunr will chime in about this issue soon. I believe it was he that has been round-and-round with the T-Dome about this issue.

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    I am not sure as to the answer to your specific question, however prior to moving here I was a security supervisor in San Diego working with the Chargers as well as the Padres.

    The stadiums themselves did not have specifc rules or city codes as the case may have been regarding pat downs or even security procedures for patrons.

    That being said it is the policy of both the NFL and MLB that all patrons "voluntarily submit to a search of their person and property" This is "clearly" written on all tickets (find the smallest possible writing on the back and it will be in there)

    Now the point I am making here is two-fold: 1. the way it was handled is when you would come up to the gate prior to getting your ticket scanned you would come up to a security guard who would state "Sir )or Ma'am as appropriate) I need you to place your arms straight out while I do a security pat down." The minute the person puts their arms out that constitutes "voluntarily accepting the search" Notice it was not a question nor were they told that it was voluntary. EVER. then they would proceed to bag checks where the same type of thing would occur.

    2. A refusal of the "voluntary searches" resulted in denial of admittance in conjunction with the terms stated on the reverse of the ticket.

    This is an EXTREMELY common occurance with LEO as well. They have been trained to use words that are not NECESSARILY and order, however make it appear that it is and that you have no choice.

    Make sure that ANYTIME ANYONE LEO or not is doing something you do not want or asking/telling you to comply with something that you know you dont legally have to politely refuse and ask to speak to a superior.

    Also handguns are not allowed inside the stadium "per NFL policy" however the NFL defers to state laws in regards to this. That is just the line we were told to enforce. As a supervisor I knew that anyone who attempted to enter with a handgun could go to the security office to get their CCW verified online and their seat location noted "in case anything happened" however this is not something that was deseminated to the front line security guards and only became noticed when someone argued enough that the supervisor had to get involved.

    This just goes to show you the extent that some laws have been "bent but not broken"
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  6. #6
    TWG2A
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    It was interesting when the Sonics were trying to get the Key Arena remodeled, using public funds, so they could continue on there. Wow, that struck a chord with so many Washington citizens! A very heated debate, for certain!

    As was said in an earlier post.... Event promoters and organizations lease those facilities from the City governments. With that in mind, there's a sort of *hybrid* set of rules by which they must abide.



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    NavyLT wrote:
    TWG2A wrote:
    It was interesting when the Sonics were trying to get the Key Arena remodeled, using public funds, so they could continue on there. Wow, that struck a chord with so many Washington citizens! A very heated debate, for certain!

    As was said in an earlier post.... Event promoters and organizations lease those facilities from the City governments. With that in mind, there's a sort of *hybrid* set of rules by which they must abide.

    What torques my nuts is that the city of Seattle and the city of Tacoma use their lease and permit agreements to enact their own ban on firearms. In order to get a permit for a public function (in Seattle, not sure about Tacoma) or to lease/rent a city owned facility, the organization must agree to prohibit firearms as a term of the lease/rental/permit. It's their loophole to the preemption statute.
    It doesn't make any sense to me at all. What exactly are they gaining by enacting this rule? What do they benefit out of it?

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    Aaron1124 wrote:
    NavyLT wrote:
    TWG2A wrote:
    It was interesting when the Sonics were trying to get the Key Arena remodeled, using public funds, so they could continue on there. Wow, that struck a chord with so many Washington citizens! A very heated debate, for certain!

    As was said in an earlier post.... Event promoters and organizations lease those facilities from the City governments. With that in mind, there's a sort of *hybrid* set of rules by which they must abide.

    What torques my nuts is that the city of Seattle and the city of Tacoma use their lease and permit agreements to enact their own ban on firearms. In order to get a permit for a public function (in Seattle, not sure about Tacoma) or to lease/rent a city owned facility, the organization must agree to prohibit firearms as a term of the lease/rental/permit. It's their loophole to the preemption statute.
    It doesn't make any sense to me at all. What exactly are they gaining by enacting this rule? What do they benefit out of it?
    What they are getting out of it is a feeling of control, which is what many politicians crave.
    No right is held more sacred, or is more carefully guarded, by the common law than the right of every individual to the possession and control of his own person, free from all restraint or interference of others, unless by clear and unquestionable authority of law. Union Pacific Rail Co. vs Botsford as quoted in Terry v Ohio.


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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Key Areana....check

    Husky Stadium...check

    Quest Field....check

    Safeco Field....check

    Tacoma Dome....check

    Rose Garden.....check

    Having carried into all of these public buildings and at several being 'patted down' or searched and in one case even 'wanded' I always turn to my wife, daughter or buddy I am going to the event with and ask "do you feel safer?" Their response is always, 'I feel safer with you carrying ....but not with their 'security'.
    Live Free or Die!

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    NavyLT wrote:
    gogodawgs wrote:
    Key Areana....check

    Husky Stadium...check

    Quest Field....check

    Safeco Field....check

    Tacoma Dome....check

    Rose Garden.....check

    Having carried into all of these public buildings and at several being 'patted down' or searched and in one case even 'wanded' I always turn to my wife, daughter or buddy I am going to the event with and ask "do you feel safer?" Their response is always, 'I feel safer with you carrying ....but not with their 'security'.
    I'm thinking ankle holster and then reposition the gun to a more sutable location once inside.
    For Quest who does 'pat downs' ....Keltec p32, with the pocket clip...usually back pocket (they don't touch your butt) they pat down the waist.

    For the Roes Garden who 'wands' random guests..... I put it on the inside pocket of my leather jacket and when he 'wanded' me I held the jacket in my hands and out to my side. (I had stood outside and watched how they did the check)

    All the others they just let you in without any 'search' unless you have a backpack or other bag.

    (This is why I have carried the Keltec for the last 12 years or so, it can go anywhere)
    Live Free or Die!

  11. #11
    Regular Member Bob Warden's Avatar
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    RCW 9.41.300
    Weapons prohibited in certain places — Local laws and ordinances — Exceptions — Penalty.
    (2) Cities, towns, counties, and other municipalities may enact laws and ordinances:
    (b) Restricting the possession of firearms in any stadium or convention center, operated by a city, town, county, or other municipality, except that such restrictions shall not apply to:
    (i) Any pistol in the possession of a person licensed under RCW
    9.41.070 [CPL holder] or exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060[LEO].

    So if you have a CPL, it is legal for you to carry in Key Arena and in the Tacoma Dome. The other question would be whether or not a private entity leasing the facility could legally enforce a private rule against carrying. Based on theabove statute, an argument can be made that CPL holders have an affirmativeright to carry in stadiums andconvention centersoperated by a city, town, county, or other municipality, and that rules to the contrary are null. In fact, the language of the statute seems to give CPL holders the same standing as LEOs in such places.


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    NavyLT wrote:
    TWG2A wrote:
    It was interesting when the Sonics were trying to get the Key Arena remodeled, using public funds, so they could continue on there. Wow, that struck a chord with so many Washington citizens! A very heated debate, for certain!

    As was said in an earlier post.... Event promoters and organizations lease those facilities from the City governments. With that in mind, there's a sort of *hybrid* set of rules by which they must abide.

    What torques my nuts is that the city of Seattle and the city of Tacoma use their lease and permit agreements to enact their own ban on firearms. In order to get a permit for a public function (in Seattle, not sure about Tacoma) or to lease/rent a city owned facility, the organization must agree to prohibit firearms as a term of the lease/rental/permit. It's their loophole to the preemption statute.
    Except those rules may not apply to the general public, simply those who are holding the event.
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  13. #13
    TWG2A
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    The more I look into this the more convoluted it gets.

    Quest Field is owned and operated by a "Public-Private" partnership. Google quest field seattle" and take a look at the information from various sources. I don't usually rely on Wikipedia, but after reading several other sources, wikipedia seems to be written in easy to understand "laymans" terms, if you will, and matches what the official sites indicate. I had to go through several different sites to gather the information that is on one page at wiki.

    But it all boils down to a hybrid set of rules, and in quest field's case, it seems that it is owned privately, but operated with public funds.



  14. #14
    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    The Tacoma Dome & Cheney Stadium are owned and operated by the city of Tacoma. They are trying to use City of Sequim v PNSPA as a defense as well as Cherry v Seattle.

    When they lease out the facility the agreement their customers is that weapons are not allowed. You can't be cited for having the weapon per the RCW but they can ask you to leave or be cited for trespass.

    I have yet to be patted down or checked at the Dome or Cheney Stadium.


    The Attorney General (Rob McKenna) under AGO 2008 No. 8
    Downlaoded here: http://forum.nwcdl.org/index.php?act...;sa=view;id=58

    Stated that Washington cities cannot enact local laws that prohibit possession of firearms on city property or in city-owned facilities. See page 5 for more info on trespass.


    This defense could be used at the Freedom Fair and other events on city property.

    The three Tacoma letters: http://forum.nwcdl.org/index.php?action=downloads;cat=3







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