Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 53

Thread: Video Taping SPD

  1. #1
    Regular Member Leatherneck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Des Moines, Washington, USA
    Posts
    281

    Post imported post

    We've got another case of police officers under investigation because of bystanders video taping their actions.

    I don't agree with him punching that 17 yr old girl. However, I completely understand the frustration that lead up to it. The way I see it, that punch was the ONLY thing he did that was out of line. EVERYTHING the two females did was out of line.

    So we're back to this topic. If it's illegal to video tape them, why are these videos being aired on the news and being used in court?

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Gone... Nutty as squirrel **** around here
    Posts
    753

    Post imported post

    Ummm, who said it was illegal to tape them?

    You can tape just about anything that happens in public. You just can't interfere with them while they do it.


    As to the punch, I don 't have a problem with it. She had no right or reason to shove him. I think he showed restraint in just giving her one. She retreated and he went back to dealing with the original one. I think he should have been a little more aggressive with her so he could get her under control faster.

    I don't care if male or female, adult or juvenile. At the time you put your hands on a cop (or anyone for that matter) you open the door for bad things to happen to you.

    Here is a good tutorial related to police encounters...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8&feature=related




  3. #3
    Regular Member swatspyder's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    University Place, Washington, USA
    Posts
    573

    Post imported post

    Leatherneck wrote:
    We've got another case of police officers under investigation because of bystanders video taping their actions.

    I don't agree with him punching that 17 yr old girl. However, I completely understand the frustration that lead up to it. The way I see it, that punch was the ONLY thing he did that was out of line. EVERYTHING the two females did was out of line.

    So we're back to this topic. If it's illegal to video tape them, why are these videos being aired on the news and being used in court?
    Somebody is misinformed...

  4. #4
    Regular Member Leatherneck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Des Moines, Washington, USA
    Posts
    281

    Post imported post

    Well, there was another thread on this subject. One of them contained a video of LEO detaining a guy for taking pictures (he didn't know he was on candid camera).

    So what I'm saying is, on the streets, LEO are willing to detain citizens and confiscate cameras. Therefore, they are saying it's illegal. This is just proof to the opposite.

  5. #5
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Federal Way, Washington, USA
    Posts
    5,666

    Post imported post

    Leatherneck wrote:
    Well, there was another thread on this subject. One of them contained a video of LEO detaining a guy for taking pictures (he didn't know he was on candid camera).

    So what I'm saying is, on the streets, LEO are willing to detain citizens and confiscate cameras. Therefore, they are saying it's illegal. This is just proof to the opposite.
    The post of the camera man was fro California. It is not illegal to record things in public.
    Live Free or Die!

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Everett, Washington, USA
    Posts
    3,339

    Post imported post

    Leatherneck wrote:
    We've got another case of police officers under investigation because of bystanders video taping their actions.

    I don't agree with him punching that 17 yr old girl. However, I completely understand the frustration that lead up to it. The way I see it, that punch was the ONLY thing he did that was out of line. EVERYTHING the two females did was out of line.

    So we're back to this topic. If it's illegal to video tape them, why are these videos being aired on the news and being used in court?
    You don't agree with someone punching an attacker to stop the threat? WOW.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    West Plains, ,
    Posts
    388

    Post imported post

    I personally thought the cop showed great restraint in dealing with the two foul mouthed, abusive, combative females. He would have been justified to employ a taser if he had one, IMO.

    What struck me as screwed up was the number of bystanders who did just that, stood by and did nothing to help, other than record it and make comments. That scene could have gotten very ugly, very fast.

    It seemed to take a long time for backup to arrive, long enough that the cop could have been in real trouble if the crowd had turned violent.

    So yea, I think he was more than justified in popping her with a "closed fist". It removed her from the mix in pretty short order.

    bob

  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran ak56's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Carnation, Washington, USA
    Posts
    748

    Post imported post

    BobR wrote:
    I personally thought the cop showed great restraint in dealing with the two foul mouthed, abusive, combative females. He would have been justified to employ a taser if he had one, IMO.

    What struck me as screwed up was the number of bystanders who did just that, stood by and did nothing to help, other than record it and make comments. That scene could have gotten very ugly, very fast.

    It seemed to take a long time for backup to arrive, long enough that the cop could have been in real trouble if the crowd had turned violent.

    So yea, I think he was more than justified in popping her with a "closed fist". It removed her from the mix in pretty short order.

    bob
    +1
    No right is held more sacred, or is more carefully guarded, by the common law than the right of every individual to the possession and control of his own person, free from all restraint or interference of others, unless by clear and unquestionable authority of law. Union Pacific Rail Co. vs Botsford as quoted in Terry v Ohio.


    Talk to your cats about catnip - before it's too late.

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Port Orchard, Washington, USA
    Posts
    897

    Post imported post

    BobR wrote:
    I personally thought the cop showed great restraint in dealing with the two foul mouthed, abusive, combative females. He would have been justified to employ a taser if he had one, IMO.

    What struck me as screwed up was the number of bystanders who did just that, stood by and did nothing to help, other than record it and make comments. That scene could have gotten very ugly, very fast.

    It seemed to take a long time for backup to arrive, long enough that the cop could have been in real trouble if the crowd had turned violent.

    So yea, I think he was more than justified in popping her with a "closed fist". It removed her from the mix in pretty short order.

    bob
    It would have gotten real ugly if it wasn't for that one guy with the back pack pulling the 17 year old away from the officer and making her stay put till he was done with the 19 year old. I think if he had to keep struggling with them much longer the crowd might have joined in and beat a cop to death.

    I agree that the officer showed great restraint. Also, the two girls have a long record with the legal system. The 17 year old even has on her record an assault on a police officer from an attack on a female officer at a juvenile detention center. They aren't angles by any stretch of the imagination.

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    76

    Post imported post

    Sorry if this is off topic...

    Is it a good idea to help the officer in this type of situation where he's clearly outnumbered? Not helping to subdue the person, but merely trying to calm the crowd down, have them backup a bit and allow the officer to do his/her job. I know they always say "don't interfere with police business" etc..., but I guess my question is - is there a right way to help? I'm just seeing there's any useful tactic we could learn from this situation. My normal response would have been to keep walking by.

    Btw, I think the officer did a great job in this situation.

  11. #11
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Federal Way, Washington, USA
    Posts
    5,666

    Post imported post

    Magix wrote:
    Sorry if this is off topic...

    Is it a good idea to help the officer in this type of situation where he's clearly outnumbered? Not helping to subdue the person, but merely trying to calm the crowd down, have them backup a bit and allow the officer to do his/her job. I know they always say "don't interfere with police business" etc..., but I guess my question is - is there a right way to help? I'm just seeing there's any useful tactic we could learn from this situation. My normal response would have been to keep walking by.

    Btw, I think the officer did a great job in this situation.
    I would only physically help if the officer asked or his life was in jeapordy.

    I would of waited by and observed, called 911 and only reacted had it gotten to the point where the officer could not handle it and either asked for help or was incabable of asking for help.


    Live Free or Die!

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Somewhere over run with mud(s)
    Posts
    791

    Post imported post

    While not necessarily along the same lines I believe an experience from my past security work would demonstrate this situation.

    I as the supervisor got called to provide back up for a fight in View 15, outside of my normal AOR but since it was back up requested who is gonna turn it down?

    Anyways when I get there I see 5 guys all wrestling on the ground in between the seats. Myself and a few others help out and throw all of them in cuffs and escort them to the PD detention facility for assault.

    Later come to find out that two of the guys were just trying to help out and break it up (this was told by the apparent "instigators" as well as the good samaritans)

    However all 5 ended up being transported to lock up and CITED for drunk in public and failure to follow city municipal code (code of conduct at Qualcomm stadium).

    So basically these guys were helping out try and stop a fight and they ended up in the drunk tank over night as well as being cited and having to pay fines. This is why I would be one of those "pu$$" bystanders that does nothing until asked to. I have personally seen the effects of good intentions bitting someone in the A$$.


    "And shepherds we shall be, for Thee, my Lord, for Thee.
    Power hath descended forth from Thy hand, that our feet may swiftly carry out Thy command.
    So we shall flow a river forth to Thee and teeming with souls shall it ever be.
    E nomine Patri, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti."


    "If the rest of the world says: 'War,' I can only say: 'Very well. I do not want war, but no one, however peaceable, can live in peace if his neighbor intends to force a quarrel.'" - Adolf Hitler...

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    76

    Post imported post

    devildoc5 wrote:
    While not necessarily along the same lines I believe an experience from my past security work would demonstrate this situation.

    I as the supervisor got called to provide back up for a fight in View 15, outside of my normal AOR but since it was back up requested who is gonna turn it down?

    Anyways when I get there I see 5 guys all wrestling on the ground in between the seats. Myself and a few others help out and throw all of them in cuffs and escort them to the PD detention facility for assault.

    Later come to find out that two of the guys were just trying to help out and break it up (this was told by the apparent "instigators" as well as the good samaritans)

    However all 5 ended up being transported to lock up and CITED for drunk in public and failure to follow city municipal code (code of conduct at Qualcomm stadium).

    So basically these guys were helping out try and stop a fight and they ended up in the drunk tank over night as well as being cited and having to pay fines. This is why I would be one of those "pu$$" bystanders that does nothing until asked to. I have personally seen the effects of good intentions bitting someone in the A$$.

    That's another thing I've wondered about. Could I get in trouble for trying to help? I've read a few stories on this forum about people helping police officers and later paying the consequences. It's really unfair IMO, but it's an imperfect world and I understand that. Granted there's a lot of possibilities that could happen, but it troubles me that just stepping in to assist could get you in trouble.

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Kent, Washington, USA
    Posts
    2,048

    Post imported post

    That Chris Rock video was absolutely hilarious!

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Somewhere over run with mud(s)
    Posts
    791

    Post imported post

    I believe GoGo has said it best "observe and report" unless other wise directed to.

    If the cop asks or even orders you to help then that would be a different case. I remember hearing about a shooting in Oregon I believe it was at Ogden mall, where an Ogden pd officer was temporarily arrested after stopping the shooter since the responding LEO's (Sherrifs I believe) didnot recognize him, however he wasreleased on the scene.

    I am sure if a cop ordered or asked you to help the same type of thing would probably happen here. Key points would be to obviously assist the officer if requested, nuetralize the threat and then make sure that you yourself do not appear to be a threat to any other responding officers. I.e. turn your weapon over to the officer that asked for help (not my first choice but probably would work), reholster your weapon (My first choice), or shadow the officer that asked for help with your weapon holstered (might get you in trouble but would also prevent him from forgetting about you)

    Yes you will probably be detained for a little while until someone can verify that you were not a bg (same thing happens all the time in hostage situations and the like)
    "And shepherds we shall be, for Thee, my Lord, for Thee.
    Power hath descended forth from Thy hand, that our feet may swiftly carry out Thy command.
    So we shall flow a river forth to Thee and teeming with souls shall it ever be.
    E nomine Patri, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti."


    "If the rest of the world says: 'War,' I can only say: 'Very well. I do not want war, but no one, however peaceable, can live in peace if his neighbor intends to force a quarrel.'" - Adolf Hitler...

  16. #16
    Regular Member Batousaii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Kitsap Co., Washington, USA
    Posts
    1,234

    Post imported post

    OMG that Chris Rock video was freekin hilarious....
    ~ ENCLAVE vmc ~
    The Enclave is looking for patriotic motorcycle riders in Washington State who support liberty and freedom for all. ~ Check us out!
    ~
    * " To be swayed neither by the opponent nor by his sword is the essence of swordsmanship." - Miyamoto Musashi.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Aryk45XD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Seattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    513

    Post imported post

    In Washington recording in public or private property is still fully acceptable to the courts.

    As for the officer that threw the punch, it was borderline so it's going to get attention. At any point he could have put the first one down, but chose to show too much restraint. The other girl that came over completely deserved the punch. Yes, he could have reached for a taser or mace and try to subdue both of them, but he already had a fist. There is never a reason to go and lay your hands on an officer who is innocently doing his job. Damn sure didn't help that they showed no respect and offered no apology right from the start.

    ETA: The only good time to help is when somebody asks or needs to, but can't ask for it. IMO

  18. #18
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    In My Coffee
    Posts
    5,278

    Post imported post

    That female, along with her friend got what was coming to them by breaking the law and assaulting a police officer doing his job.

    Should she have been punched in the face, YES. The officer was under attack and should have used much more force than a simple punch IMO.

    BTW, both females have records that explain why they had found themselves in a confrontation with an LEO. One of the women had been convicted of robbery and another was convicted of assault on a Sheriff.

    I think the LEO needs to look at the video and realize just how compromised his safety was. Situational awareness needs to be pounded into his head. He should at that point had some sort of defensive tool out, taser, stick, pepper spray.

    The funny thing about the man recording is he thinks that he is probably helping his friends--he has helped the prosecutor in convicting these thugs of assault on a police officer and resisting arrest.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Long gone
    Posts
    2,575

    Post imported post

    I think the LEO showed a lot of restraint maybe too much for his own safety. The young lady first verbaly assaulted the Officerthen grabbed the Officers armthenpushed the Officer. At each pointshe escalated her assault on the Officer.What was her next move a fist, a knife or ???The Officer escalated enough to stop the threat, I cant fault the Officer, no one should have to allow them selves to be assaulted. At 17 years old she should know that shoving someone isnot acceptable behaviour.

    What other options did the Officer have, Taser, pistol, night stick all would have more force than necessary.
    Throw me to the wolves and I will come back leading the pack.

  20. #20
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Whatcom County
    Posts
    17,338

    Post imported post

    Orphan wrote:
    I think the LEO showed a lot of restraint maybe too much for his own safety. The young lady first verbaly assaulted the Officerthen grabbed the Officers armthenpushed the Officer. At each pointshe escalated her assault on the Officer.What was her next move a fist, a knife or ???The Officer escalated enough to stop the threat, I cant fault the Officer, no one should have to allow them selves to be assaulted. At 17 years old she should know that shoving someone isnot acceptable behaviour.

    What other options did the Officer have, Taser, pistol, night stick all would have more force than necessary.
    +1

    Everybody knows I am for limiting police power but if any citizen was treated this way and assaulted they would have the right to fight back. I believe this LEO did too.

    P.S. I knew this would make the boards one way or an other.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Somewhere over run with mud(s)
    Posts
    791

    Post imported post

    I agree with the whole right to defend yourself as well as using the least amount of force appropriate to stop the attack...that being said I think where the problem comes in is two fold 1 she was a female and 2 she was a minor miner (other thread sorry)

    Cops increasingly have been raked over the coals in the past for their interactions with minors take for example the cop who tasered the minor female for her own safety (supposedly at least)

    That is why everyone is trying to throw a fit... I believe if you wanna try and hit me like a grown a$$ man you deserve to get hit like one. Regardless of age (within reason of course)

    Unfortunately not everyone feels this way and most wanna coddle the children and the minorities and the women and everyone who pretty much is not a white male. (Sorry just an observation based on experiences in the state of mexico (ca) not being racial or anything like that)

    That being said I respect all people who deserve it...certain people regardless of age race or creed are just dumb and unworthy of respect...
    "And shepherds we shall be, for Thee, my Lord, for Thee.
    Power hath descended forth from Thy hand, that our feet may swiftly carry out Thy command.
    So we shall flow a river forth to Thee and teeming with souls shall it ever be.
    E nomine Patri, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti."


    "If the rest of the world says: 'War,' I can only say: 'Very well. I do not want war, but no one, however peaceable, can live in peace if his neighbor intends to force a quarrel.'" - Adolf Hitler...

  22. #22
    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Marysville, Washington, USA
    Posts
    3,522

    Post imported post

    The cop should have clocked both of the gals. Started with Jay walking, which in my opinion more cops should enforce. If we cantrun em down forpoints when their are out of crosswalks, thenthey should get tickets.I also wonder if this would still be a racial issue if it were a black male cop and 2 white females? The cop should just be lucky that no one grabbed his gun. I was surprised that he didnt throw an elbow back when the one gal got on his back. Also, I havnt watched the video again since I saw it on the news, but there was a discussion of someone seeing a gun in someone else's hand, then it was said it was lighting and shadows.
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

    "They who can who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve niether liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

  23. #23
    Regular Member Leatherneck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Des Moines, Washington, USA
    Posts
    281

    Post imported post

    I am of the mind that you don't hit a woman. However, I also want my girls to know they can't use that to their advantage. If they start to get violent, all bets are off.

    As more light is shed on this, I'm of the mind that yes, he did do well in his situation.

  24. #24
    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Marysville, Washington, USA
    Posts
    3,522

    Post imported post

    Leatherneck wrote:
    I am of the mind that you don't hit a woman. However, I also want my girls to know they can't use that to their advantage. If they start to get violent, all bets are off.

    As more light is shed on this, I'm of the mind that yes, he did do well in his situation.
    +1, The average male citizen should not hit a woman. BUT...when they break the law and start fighting you while you are doing your job as a law enforcement officer, they have went from woman to criminal. I think there is a difference.
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

    "They who can who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve niether liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

  25. #25
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    In My Coffee
    Posts
    5,278

    Post imported post

    amzbrady wrote:
    Leatherneck wrote:
    I am of the mind that you don't hit a woman. However, I also want my girls to know they can't use that to their advantage. If they start to get violent, all bets are off.

    As more light is shed on this, I'm of the mind that yes, he did do well in his situation.
    +1, The average male citizen should not hit a woman. BUT...when they break the law and start fighting you while you are doing your job as a law enforcement officer, they have went from woman to criminal. I think there is a difference.
    If a woman is hitting you, regardless of you being male or female, you have a right to defend yourself. Should you punch a woman that is 5'4" 105 lbs. as hard as a man that is 6'4" 250 lbs...absolutely not.

    If I hit a man I am pretty damn sure he is going to hit me back--I would deserve it.

    The fact that the girl is 17 has nothing to do with the situation, the girl was as big as the guy and assaulting him. I think the officer needs to make sure he keeps people in front of him when in a situation like this one. I seen these girls on his back way to many times--gun grab danger.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •