Video Taping SPD

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We've got another case of police officers under investigation because of bystanders video taping their actions.

I don't agree with him punching that 17 yr old girl. However, I completely understand the frustration that lead up to it. The way I see it, that punch was the ONLY thing he did that was out of line. EVERYTHING the two females did was out of line.

So we're back to this topic. If it's illegal to video tape them, why are these videos being aired on the news and being used in court?

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Ummm, who said it was illegal to tape them?

You can tape just about anything that happens in public. You just can't interfere with them while they do it.


As to the punch, I don 't have a problem with it. She had no right or reason to shove him. I think he showed restraint in just giving her one. She retreated and he went back to dealing with the original one. I think he should have been a little more aggressive with her so he could get her under control faster.

I don't care if male or female, adult or juvenile. At the time you put your hands on a cop (or anyone for that matter) you open the door for bad things to happen to you.

Here is a good tutorial related to police encounters...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8&feature=related

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Leatherneck wrote:

We've got another case of police officers under investigation because of bystanders video taping their actions.

I don't agree with him punching that 17 yr old girl. However, I completely understand the frustration that lead up to it. The way I see it, that punch was the ONLY thing he did that was out of line. EVERYTHING the two females did was out of line.

So we're back to this topic. If it's illegal to video tape them, why are these videos being aired on the news and being used in court?

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Somebody is misinformed...

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Well, there was another thread on this subject. One of them contained a video of LEO detaining a guy for taking pictures (he didn't know he was on candid camera).

So what I'm saying is, on the streets, LEO are willing to detain citizens and confiscate cameras. Therefore, they are saying it's illegal. This is just proof to the opposite.

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Leatherneck wrote:

Well, there was another thread on this subject. One of them contained a video of LEO detaining a guy for taking pictures (he didn't know he was on candid camera).

So what I'm saying is, on the streets, LEO are willing to detain citizens and confiscate cameras. Therefore, they are saying it's illegal. This is just proof to the opposite.

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The post of the camera man was fro California. It is not illegal to record things in public.

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Leatherneck wrote:

We've got another case of police officers under investigation because of bystanders video taping their actions.

I don't agree with him punching that 17 yr old girl. However, I completely understand the frustration that lead up to it. The way I see it, that punch was the ONLY thing he did that was out of line. EVERYTHING the two females did was out of line.

So we're back to this topic. If it's illegal to video tape them, why are these videos being aired on the news and being used in court?

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You don't agree with someone punching an attacker to stop the threat? WOW.

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I personally thought the cop showed great restraint in dealing with the two foul mouthed, abusive, combative females. He would have been justified to employ a taser if he had one, IMO.

What struck me as screwed up was the number of bystanders who did just that, stood by and did nothing to help, other than record it and make comments. That scene could have gotten very ugly, very fast.

It seemed to take a long time for backup to arrive, long enough that the cop could have been in real trouble if the crowd had turned violent.

So yea, I think he was more than justified in popping her with a "closed fist". It removed her from the mix in pretty short order.

bob

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BobR wrote:

I personally thought the cop showed great restraint in dealing with the two foul mouthed, abusive, combative females. He would have been justified to employ a taser if he had one, IMO.

What struck me as screwed up was the number of bystanders who did just that, stood by and did nothing to help, other than record it and make comments. That scene could have gotten very ugly, very fast.

It seemed to take a long time for backup to arrive, long enough that the cop could have been in real trouble if the crowd had turned violent.

So yea, I think he was more than justified in popping her with a "closed fist". It removed her from the mix in pretty short order.

bob

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+1

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BobR wrote:

I personally thought the cop showed great restraint in dealing with the two foul mouthed, abusive, combative females. He would have been justified to employ a taser if he had one, IMO.

What struck me as screwed up was the number of bystanders who did just that, stood by and did nothing to help, other than record it and make comments. That scene could have gotten very ugly, very fast.

It seemed to take a long time for backup to arrive, long enough that the cop could have been in real trouble if the crowd had turned violent.

So yea, I think he was more than justified in popping her with a "closed fist". It removed her from the mix in pretty short order.

bob

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It would have gotten real ugly if it wasn't for that one guy with the back pack pulling the 17 year old away from the officer and making her stay put till he was done with the 19 year old. I think if he had to keep struggling with them much longer the crowd might have joined in and beat a cop to death.

I agree that the officer showed great restraint. Also, the two girls have a long record with the legal system. The 17 year old even has on her record an assault on a police officer from an attack on a female officer at a juvenile detention center. They aren't angles by any stretch of the imagination.

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Sorry if this is off topic...

Is it a good idea to help the officer in this type of situation where he's clearly outnumbered? Not helping to subdue the person, but merely trying to calm the crowd down, have them backup a bit and allow the officer to do his/her job. I know they always say "don't interfere with police business" etc..., but I guess my question is - is there a right way to help? I'm just seeing there's any useful tactic we could learn from this situation. My normal response would have been to keep walking by.

Btw, I think the officer did a great job in this situation.

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Magix wrote:

Sorry if this is off topic...

Is it a good idea to help the officer in this type of situation where he's clearly outnumbered? Not helping to subdue the person, but merely trying to calm the crowd down, have them backup a bit and allow the officer to do his/her job. I know they always say "don't interfere with police business" etc..., but I guess my question is - is there a right way to help? I'm just seeing there's any useful tactic we could learn from this situation. My normal response would have been to keep walking by.

Btw, I think the officer did a great job in this situation.

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I would only physically help if the officer asked or his life was in jeapordy.

I would of waited by and observed, called 911 and only reacted had it gotten to the point where the officer could not handle it and either asked for help or was incabable of asking for help.

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While not necessarily along the same lines I believe an experience from my past security work would demonstrate this situation.

I as the supervisor got called to provide back up for a fight in View 15, outside of my normal AOR but since it was back up requested who is gonna turn it down?

Anyways when I get there I see 5 guys all wrestling on the ground in between the seats. Myself and a few others help out and throw all of them in cuffs and escort them to the PD detention facility for assault.

Later come to find out that two of the guys were just trying to help out and break it up (this was told by the apparent "instigators" as well as the good samaritans)

However all 5 ended up being transported to lock up and CITED for drunk in public and failure to follow city municipal code (code of conduct at Qualcomm stadium).

So basically these guys were helping out try and stop a fight and they ended up in the drunk tank over night as well as being cited and having to pay fines. This is why I would be one of those "pu$$" bystanders that does nothing until asked to. I have personally seen the effects of good intentions bitting someone in the A$$.

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devildoc5 wrote:

While not necessarily along the same lines I believe an experience from my past security work would demonstrate this situation.

I as the supervisor got called to provide back up for a fight in View 15, outside of my normal AOR but since it was back up requested who is gonna turn it down?

Anyways when I get there I see 5 guys all wrestling on the ground in between the seats. Myself and a few others help out and throw all of them in cuffs and escort them to the PD detention facility for assault.

Later come to find out that two of the guys were just trying to help out and break it up (this was told by the apparent "instigators" as well as the good samaritans)

However all 5 ended up being transported to lock up and CITED for drunk in public and failure to follow city municipal code (code of conduct at Qualcomm stadium).

So basically these guys were helping out try and stop a fight and they ended up in the drunk tank over night as well as being cited and having to pay fines. This is why I would be one of those "pu$$" bystanders that does nothing until asked to. I have personally seen the effects of good intentions bitting someone in the A$$.

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That's another thing I've wondered about. Could I get in trouble for trying to help? I've read a few stories on this forum about people helping police officers and later paying the consequences. It's really unfair IMO, but it's an imperfect world and I understand that. Granted there's a lot of possibilities that could happen, but it troubles me that just stepping in to assist could get you in trouble.

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That Chris Rock video was absolutely hilarious!

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I believe GoGo has said it best "observe and report" unless other wise directed to.

If the cop asks or even orders you to help then that would be a different case. I remember hearing about a shooting in Oregon I believe it was at Ogden mall, where an Ogden pd officer was temporarily arrested after stopping the shooter since the responding LEO's (Sherrifs I believe) didnot recognize him, however he wasreleased on the scene.

I am sure if a cop ordered or asked you to help the same type of thing would probably happen here. Key points would be to obviously assist the officer if requested, nuetralize the threat and then make sure that you yourself do not appear to be a threat to any other responding officers. I.e. turn your weapon over to the officer that asked for help (not my first choice but probably would work), reholster your weapon (My first choice), or shadow the officer that asked for help with your weapon holstered (might get you in trouble but would also prevent him from forgetting about you)

Yes you will probably be detained for a little while until someone can verify that you were not a bg (same thing happens all the time in hostage situations and the like)

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OMG that Chris Rock video was freekin hilarious.... :lol:

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In Washington recording in public or private property is still fully acceptable to the courts.

As for the officer that threw the punch, it was borderline so it's going to get attention. At any point he could have put the first one down, but chose to show too much restraint. The other girl that came over completely deserved the punch. Yes, he could have reached for a taser or mace and try to subdue both of them, but he already had a fist. There is never a reason to go and lay your hands on an officer who is innocently doing his job. Damn sure didn't help that they showed no respect and offered no apology right from the start.

ETA: The only good time to help is when somebody asks or needs to, but can't ask for it. IMO

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That female, along with her friend got what was coming to them by breaking the law and assaulting a police officer doing his job.

Should she have been punched in the face, YES. The officer was under attack and should have used much more force than a simple punch IMO.

BTW, both females have records that explain why they had found themselves in a confrontation with an LEO. One of the women had been convicted of robbery and another was convicted of assault on a Sheriff.

I think the LEO needs to look at the video and realize just how compromised his safety was. Situational awareness needs to be pounded into his head. He should at that point had some sort of defensive tool out, taser, stick, pepper spray.

The funny thing about the man recording is he thinks that he is probably helping his friends--he has helped the prosecutor in convicting these thugs of assault on a police officer and resisting arrest.

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I think the LEO showed a lot of restraint maybe too much for his own safety. The young lady first verbaly assaulted the Officerthen grabbed the Officers armthenpushed the Officer. At each pointshe escalated her assault on the Officer.What was her next move a fist, a knife or ???The Officer escalated enough to stop the threat, I cant fault the Officer, no one should have to allow them selves to be assaulted. At 17 years old she should know that shoving someone isnot acceptable behaviour.

What other options did the Officer have, Taser, pistol, night stick all would have more force than necessary.

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Orphan wrote:

I think the LEO showed a lot of restraint maybe too much for his own safety. The young lady first verbaly assaulted the Officerthen grabbed the Officers armthenpushed the Officer. At each pointshe escalated her assault on the Officer.What was her next move a fist, a knife or ???The Officer escalated enough to stop the threat, I cant fault the Officer, no one should have to allow them selves to be assaulted. At 17 years old she should know that shoving someone isnot acceptable behaviour.

What other options did the Officer have, Taser, pistol, night stick all would have more force than necessary.

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+1

Everybody knows I am for limiting police power but if any citizen was treated this way and assaulted they would have the right to fight back. I believe this LEO did too.

P.S. I knew this would make the boards one way or an other.