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Thread: Out of State non-resident permits?

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    I know this is a CC issue and therefore a little off topic here, but I just wanted to get other people's opinions...

    From what I can find looking through the NC statutes, ANY CC permit issued by a state with reciprocity with NC is good in NC, even if you are a NC resident, and don't have a NC permit (with the exception of a NH permit). I can't find ANYTHING in the NC statutes that REQUIRE that residents have a NC permit to be able to CC, nor can I find anything that states that NC residents with out-of-state non-resident permits are prohibited from lawfully CCing...

    This comes up because I was in the Sheriff's office Monday to get my fingerprint card made up for my Utah CC permit application, and a deputy overheard me tell the clerk what it was for. He then told me that if I was a NC resident, that the UT permit was not recognized, and that I needed a NC permit to CC.

    I didn't argue, but I told him that I already had a NC permit, and was planning to do some traveling out west this fall to attend some conferences (which is true)...

    But I am about 99% sure he is wrong.

    Can anyone clear this up?

    Do the folks at GRNC have any opinions on this?

    Or is this another situation where I'm going to have to contact the State AG's office for clarification?...

    The ONLY state that we ONLY recognize RESIDENT permits for is NH, according to the NC AG's website. All other states have universal reciprocity, from what I can determine.

    Here is the statute that defines who may carry concealed in NC. You will notice that NOWHERE does it say that the license has to be issued by NC:
    14-415.11. Permit to carry concealed handgun; scope of permit.
    (a) Any person who has a concealed handgun permit may carry a concealed handgun unless otherwise specifically prohibited by law. The person shall carry the permit together with valid identification whenever the person is carrying a concealed handgun, shall disclose to any law enforcement officer that the person holds a valid permit and is carrying a concealed handgun when approached or addressed by the officer, and shall display both the permit and the proper identification upon the request of a law enforcement
    And according to the AG's booklet (page 12) about NC Firearms Laws, a person with an out-of-state permit from a state with reciprocity with NC is subject to the same rights and privileges as a NC permit holder, but it says nothing about NC residents with out-of-state permits not being recognized:
    As of August 14, 2003, North Carolina also allows certain out-of-state concealed handgun permittees to carry concealed handguns, pursuant to such permits in North Carolina if the person’s respective state also grants such privilege to North Carolina concealed handgun permittees. N.C. Gen. Stat. § 14-415.24(a) The list of states granting such reciprocity, and therefore, recognized by North Carolina, is constantly changing. You should refer to the North Carolina Department of Justice’s website at http://www.ncdoj.com for a current listing of those states which are allowed to carry, pursuant to their concealed carry permits in North Carolina. While carrying a handgun pursuant to such permit, qualified out-of-state permittees are held to the same standards as North Carolina permittees.
    Here is the list of states with reciprocity agreements with NC, from the NC AG's website:

    http://ncdoj.gov/About-DOJ/Law-Enfor...ciprocity.aspx

    Alabama
    Alaska
    Arizona
    Arkansas
    Colorado
    Delaware
    Florida
    Georgia
    Idaho
    Indiana
    Kansas
    Kentucky
    Louisiana
    Michigan
    Mississippi
    Missouri
    Montana
    Nebraska
    Nevada (effective July 1, 2010)
    New Hampshire (resident permits only)
    North Dakota
    Ohio
    Oklahoma
    Pennsylvania
    South Carolina
    South Dakota
    Tennessee
    Texas
    Utah
    Virginia
    Washington
    West Virginia
    Wyoming
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggressionand this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    The way I read it is that if you are a resident it must be issued by the county you reside in, which means the county on your drivers license and permit need to match.
    For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. Carl Sagan

    When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours - Stephen Roberts

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Yeah, but that is ONLY if it's a NC permit.

    Obviously an out-of-state permit can't be issued by someone in NC, but there is NO prohibition in the statute for NC residents getting out-of-state non-resident permits. And if those states have reciprocity with NC, I can't find any wording in the law that would make a NC resident with an out-of-state permit ineligible to CC.

    Maybe I'm missing something here, but that's the way I read it.

    I've got a call in to the NC AG's office, and as soon as I get an answer from them, I'll post it here...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggressionand this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    I think you are correct Dreamer. I know of at least one person that was denied a NC CHP because of a violent misdemeanor (in VA) that was able to get a VA non-resident permit and carries just fine.

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    mekender wrote:
    I think you are correct Dreamer. I know of at least one person that was denied a NC CHP because of a violent misdemeanor (in VA) that was able to get a VA non-resident permit and carries just fine.
    You seem to be correct as far as the NC AG's office is concerned. The question for NC residents would be, (and I know you, Dreamer, already have your NC permit) why would any NC resident want to get an out of state permit just for the sake of carrying in NC?

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    NCPermit,

    Here is why...

    Someone who is a NC resident recently decided they want to start carrying, but they are working out-of-state for an extended period, and the only CC class they have access to is a Utah class. Rather than wait six or 9 months to do a class in NC when it would fit their schedule, they can take a UT class where they are working, and get the UT permit now. This permit would allow them to carry in VA, NC, WV, and PA, where they frequently travel for their job and to visit family.

    Eventually, this person will get a NC permit, but for the next six or nine months, it's just not workable to get to a NC class...

    That is the reason why.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggressionand this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Dreamer wrote:
    NCPermit,

    Here is why...

    Someone who is a NC resident recently decided they want to start carrying, but they are working out-of-state for an extended period, and the only CC class they have access to is a Utah class. Rather than wait six or 9 months to do a class in NC when it would fit their schedule, they can take a UT class where they are working, and get the UT permit now. This permit would allow them to carry in VA, NC, WV, and PA, where they frequently travel for their job and to visit family.

    Eventually, this person will get a NC permit, but for the next six or nine months, it's just not workable to get to a NC class...

    That is the reason why.
    That makes sense. I would just caution anyone living in NC to make sure the eventually go through the NC class so they are aware of NC law.

    All the best, and remember, there is no substitute for training.

    Hope is not a strategy!

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    I spoke with a woman at teh NC AG's office today, and she told me that in this instance, it would depend on the permit-issuing state's policies as to whether or not it would be valid in NC for a NC resident.

    So I called UT BCI, and a woman there told me that UT and NC have "universal reciprocity", and that UT does not put any UT residency requirement on their permits. So in her opinion, it should be valid.

    I'll be calling the NC AG again tomorrow, to see if I can get a more straight answer.

    And I will be filing a formal written request with the NC AG's office to request printed copies of the text of ALL the reciprocity agreements we have with ALL the 35 states we have agreements with, since they are not available online (34 + the soon-to-be effective NV)

    We'll get this hashed out soon.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggressionand this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Thank you Dreamer. Here's another issue: FL, for example, allows (Green Card) Permanent Residents to apply for its CCW. In NC, you must be a citizen of the US. This would open up the door to Green Card holders in NC who want to carry. Atleast an AG opinion would make it crystal clear.

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    Dreamer, I had this question also before applying for my VA non-res. I sent a letter to the NC AG explaining that I was a NC resident holding a VA non-res permit and got back a reply that the VA non-res permit was honored by NC. He also sent me a copy of the recip agreement signed by both AG's stating the VA non res was honored, as well a a letter from the VA State Police to the NC AG where they requested that NChonor both non resand res permits equally.

    To date I've never had a problem at a DUI check or a traffic stop, but Murphys Law says there's one out there somewhere. I keep copies in my wallet in case I run into the uninformed LEO. I can email the PDFs to you if you would like. Just PM me with your email address.


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    Dreamer wrote:
    This comes up because I was in the Sheriff's office Monday to get my fingerprint card made up for my Utah CC permit application, and a deputy overheard me tell the clerk what it was for. He then told me that if I was a NC resident, that the UT permit was not recognized, and that I needed a NC permit to CC.

    Exact same thing happened to me. When I went to be fingerprinted I told the clerk thatI needed fingerprint cards, not livescan, for a VA permit.The deputy next to the clerk said, rather loud and rudely, "I don't think that is going to do what you want it to", as if I was a crooktrying to circumvent the NC permit system.

    You have to keep in mind that they are losing $$$ if a NC residenet gets an out-of-state reciprical permit to carry in NC, and some of them consider it a slap in the face to dare to be able to do something like carry a gunwithout getting their permission.









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    Dreamer wrote:
    I spoke with a woman at teh NC AG's office today, and she told me that in this instance, it would depend on the permit-issuing state's policies as to whether or not it would be valid in NC for a NC resident.

    So I called UT BCI, and a woman there told me that UT and NC have "universal reciprocity", and that UT does not put any UT residency requirement on their permits. So in her opinion, it should be valid.

    I'll be calling the NC AG again tomorrow, to see if I can get a more straight answer.

    And I will be filing a formal written request with the NC AG's office to request printed copies of the text of ALL the reciprocity agreements we have with ALL the 35 states we have agreements with, since they are not available online (34 + the soon-to-be effective NV)

    We'll get this hashed out soon.
    Can you tell me what the other two states are? I only see 32 reciprocal states with NC according to the state's website: http://www.ncdoj.com/About-DOJ/Law-E...ciprocity.aspx

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    New Mexico honors the NC CHP even though NC does not have reciprocity with New Mexico. This is per the New Mexico State Police website. Vermont would be another, because they do not require or even issue a Concealed Carry permit, again no reciprocity with NC but you can carry there. Also Nevada becomes effective July 1st.

    YMMV

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    Thank you.

    here is a place you can go to link to each state to see what their government sites have to say about reciprocity or at least concealed carry. It was recently updated, but does not have Nevada yet. The list is at the bottom of the page.

    http://ncpermit.com/Frequent_Questions.php

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    I applied for a NC Permit last year. I was denied because of a simple assault charge on my record from 1994. I have never been arrested so someone must have stolen my identity. I talked to an attorney about this, but hegave me a price of $3,000.

    Is it possible for me to get a VA non resident permit and carry concealed legally in NC?

    It will be a long time before I can work out the charge on my record. I was told there would not be any finger prints or mug shots to prove it was not me. My name and address matches the name and address on the charge. If anyone knows someone that can help with this please let me know. The arrest happened in Greenville, NC.

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    I have the letters (copies) from VA and NC if you need them. PM me with a address or fax and I will send them. I have a VA non resident CC card and live in NC,,,all the police I have asked have been OK with it.

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    k-town river rat wrote:
    I applied for a NC Permit last year. I was denied because of a simple assault charge on my record from 1994. I have never been arrested so someone must have stolen my identity. I talked to an attorney about this, but hegave me a price of $3,000.

    Is it possible for me to get a VA non resident permit and carry concealed legally in NC?

    It will be a long time before I can work out the charge on my record. I was told there would not be any finger prints or mug shots to prove it was not me. My name and address matches the name and address on the charge. If anyone knows someone that can help with this please let me know. The arrest happened in Greenville, NC.
    i am a private investigator in NC and I teach the Concealed Carry class. if you would like to PM me, I might be able to help you. I am not an attorney nor do i play one on TV. I think the $3k fee might be a little unreasonable.


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    AZ Traveler wrote:
    New Mexico honors the NC CHP even though NC does not have reciprocity with New Mexico. This is per the New Mexico State Police website. Vermont would be another, because they do not require or even issue a Concealed Carry permit, again no reciprocity with NC but you can carry there. Also Nevada becomes effective July 1st.

    YMMV
    Thanks for posting this. I was going to answer, but you beat me to it. So it's the 32 in the above list, plus NM and VT, and NV till be added on 1 July 2010, bringing the total to 35.

    And it's 36 if you count the issuing state, NC...

    We have the most comprehensive reciprocity coverage in the union.

    Even if our carry laws are a little wonky here in NC (with the parades, funerals, admission-charging venues and alcohol-serving venue bans) a NC permit gives you CC coverage in more states than any other permit in the country.

    You'd think that if ANY permit would give you coverage in NY, CA, and MD it would be ours, but NOOOOOO.

    Some states just don't "get it", do they?...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggressionand this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    NcPermit wrote:
    k-town river rat wrote:
    I applied for a NC Permit last year. I was denied because of a simple assault charge on my record from 1994. I have never been arrested so someone must have stolen my identity. I talked to an attorney about this, but hegave me a price of $3,000.

    Is it possible for me to get a VA non resident permit and carry concealed legally in NC?

    It will be a long time before I can work out the charge on my record. I was told there would not be any finger prints or mug shots to prove it was not me. My name and address matches the name and address on the charge. If anyone knows someone that can help with this please let me know. The arrest happened in Greenville, NC.
    i am a private investigator in NC and I teach the Concealed Carry class. if you would like to PM me, I might be able to help you. I am not an attorney nor do i play one on TV. I think the $3k fee might be a little unreasonable.
    I would agree, if there was an arrest but they have no photos, prints or DNA to prove it was you, it should be a simple matter of filing a motion in front of a judge. You could do that yourself for not much money at all. If there was a case, it should be public record, go to the county clerk and get the records.

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    k-town river rat wrote:
    Is it possible for me to get a VA non resident permit and carry concealed legally in NC?
    Yes. I have a VA non res and have had no problems the last 2 years. See my above post.

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    You apply on the Va State police web site,,,they send you the Non Resident Package,,Fill it out,get prints done on their card,include CC class or DD214 copy,2 Passport photos,$100 and you will get it in 2-3 weeks. They go back 5 yrs on record. No felony convictions. My misd was over 15 yrs ago and my local sheriff turned mine down. I have carried the past year NO problems.

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    mekender wrote:
    NcPermit wrote:
    k-town river rat wrote:
    I applied for a NC Permit last year. I was denied because of a simple assault charge on my record from 1994. I have never been arrested so someone must have stolen my identity. I talked to an attorney about this, but hegave me a price of $3,000.

    Is it possible for me to get a VA non resident permit and carry concealed legally in NC?

    It will be a long time before I can work out the charge on my record. I was told there would not be any finger prints or mug shots to prove it was not me. My name and address matches the name and address on the charge. If anyone knows someone that can help with this please let me know. The arrest happened in Greenville, NC.
    i am a private investigator in NC and I teach the Concealed Carry class. if you would like to PM me, I might be able to help you. I am not an attorney nor do i play one on TV. I think the $3k fee might be a little unreasonable.
    I would agree, if there was an arrest but they have no photos, prints or DNA to prove it was you, it should be a simple matter of filing a motion in front of a judge. You could do that yourself for not much money at all. If there was a case, it should be public record, go to the county clerk and get the records.
    This is pretty much where I was headed. I doubt that VA will just hand you an out-of-state or nonresident permit without doing a background check. This is going to come up and you will still need to fight it.

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    With a Misd Arrest for assault there would have been mug shots and fingerprint cards done(3). If you have your prints to compare and they are different you should get charges removed. Also a soc number would have been used. Also a VICTIM and a report of the assault,do the leg work,call the PD that worked the case,take it all to a lawyer. If you have all that the PI would give to the lawyer they should not charge much,or take it all to court yourself and request to re open the case,,show your evidence and see what happens. Thats free.

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    Really, something like this is administrative. You probably dont need a lawyer to do it for you.

    Hell if you are really that nervous about doing it yourself. Ill come do it for the cost of gas plus a good meal.

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    NcPermit wrote:
    mekender wrote:
    NcPermit wrote:
    k-town river rat wrote:
    I applied for a NC Permit last year. I was denied because of a simple assault charge on my record from 1994. I have never been arrested so someone must have stolen my identity. I talked to an attorney about this, but hegave me a price of $3,000.

    Is it possible for me to get a VA non resident permit and carry concealed legally in NC?

    It will be a long time before I can work out the charge on my record. I was told there would not be any finger prints or mug shots to prove it was not me. My name and address matches the name and address on the charge. If anyone knows someone that can help with this please let me know. The arrest happened in Greenville, NC.
    i am a private investigator in NC and I teach the Concealed Carry class. if you would like to PM me, I might be able to help you. I am not an attorney nor do i play one on TV. I think the $3k fee might be a little unreasonable.
    I would agree, if there was an arrest but they have no photos, prints or DNA to prove it was you, it should be a simple matter of filing a motion in front of a judge. You could do that yourself for not much money at all. If there was a case, it should be public record, go to the county clerk and get the records.
    This is pretty much where I was headed. I doubt that VA will just hand you an out-of-state or nonresident permit without doing a background check. This is going to come up and you will still need to fight it.

    Of course they do a background check. But they don't deny for a misdemeanor assault charge unless it was within the last 3 or 5 years. I don't remember which. 5 years I think. Florida and New Hampshire doesn't deny for a misd. assault conviction either unless it was within the last 5 years.

    The only problem I would see is on the form you would have to check the box indicating you wree charged with the misd. assault or else when they did the BG check it would come up and they might think you were lying and reject your application for lying.

    LOL you are sort of backwards! If you lie and admit to the convictionthen you will get approved. If you tell the truth and say you weren't convicted you will get rejected for lying on the app. Sort of funny but it isn't.

    You can download the application from the VA State Police website.

    http://www.vsp.state.va.us/downloads...v_1-1-2009.pdf










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