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Thread: Newbie w/ wonders about OC

  1. #1
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    Hi all...
    I'm new to this whole OC thing and have been wandering around this forum and have seen a lot of intelligent posts and decided to have a go.

    My main thoughts are "What hoops does a 19 year-old have to jump through to get a handgun?" to my understanding it is legal for someone over the age of 18 to carry outside of Denver... correct me if I am wrong please... but you have to be 21 to purchase a handgun, so using a little bit of logic there must be a legal way to obtain a handgun before the age of 21... also "What would be an acceptable first handgun to purchase?" i was thinking something like a Beretta M9 as my first... (maybe a 1911 down the road) thanks for any input and i look forward to the discussions on this forum.

    Thanks to all,
    Moses

    Note: it was suggested that i move this to the Colorado section... so i did

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    Welcome Moses,

    There aren't any hoops per se, but you do have to purchase from a private seller or have it gifted to you by a friend or relative. Colorado law only stipulates that you have to be 21 to buy from a dealer (I think it's federal law).

    Next, the only thing that I can recommend you buy is what you're comfortable with. Remember than the heavier the gun the less likely you're going to enjoy it sitting on your hip all day. My first pistol was a Hi-Point .40 and that was a pain to carry around all the time. Now I have a Ruger P95 and I am wanting to get my hands on an XDm 9mm to reduce the weight a little more... Also, if you're good with one pistol and not another one, get the one you're good with....


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    Regular Member Kingfish's Avatar
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    Welcome aboard.

    My advise would be to go to a few/several gun shops and gun shows and get as many guns in your hand as possible.

    Decide what kind of features you want and what size gun you want.

    From there you just need to find the gun you want from a private seller, then PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE!!!

    If you are wanting to go with a 1911 soon, the M9 may not be the best choice. The safety is the wrong way around (down is "safe" instead of down being "fire".) Taurus PT92 would be the better "92" choice I think.

    I carry a Taurus 24/7 and like it alot.

    There are several guys on here that would take you shooting.

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    Silverthorne?? If you were ever able to make it down I70 to the Evergreen area then I wouldn't mind a meet and greet. For now- yeah get a pistol in your possession and open carry it. No registration in Colorado means there is no red tape to cut when gifting pistols. From one legal adult to another- you may simply hand it over- done deal. It would not be illegal for you to gift dollars to a 21+ adult. That adult purchases a pistol. That pistol is gifted to you.

    On the purchase form there is generally a question "Are you buying this firearm for yourself or somebody else?" Look out for that one and anticipate your answer.

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    M9's are nicely shooting guns, plenty of fun at the range. Since you'd be openly carrying exclusively for at least until you're 21, I don't need to emphasize that it's not terribly easy to conceal them

    I checked out Silverthorne's municipal code, and they have a section on open carry which is in compliance with Colorado state law. You can read the section (2-4-47) on the town webpage at your leisure, but it's the standard Colorado deal: no open carry on certain public properties if they have signs posted saying that you can't. Basically, keep your eyes peeled for those signs, don't carry when you see them, and you're good. And remember that courthouses and all educational property (kindergarden through college) is off-limits to those who don't have a CHL (CRS 18-12-105.5 ... I haven't lived in Colorado in a couple years, and I remembered that citation off the top of my head, oy!)

    Welcome to the group!

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    cscitney87 wrote:
    Silverthorne?? If you were ever able to make it down I70 to the Evergreen area then I wouldn't mind a meet and greet. For now- yeah get a pistol in your possession and open carry it. No registration in Colorado means there is no red tape to cut when gifting pistols. From one legal adult to another- you may simply hand it over- done deal. It would not be illegal for you to gift dollars to a 21+ adult. That adult purchases a pistol. That pistol is gifted to you.

    On the purchase form there is generally a question "Are you buying this firearm for yourself or somebody else?" Look out for that one and anticipate your answer.
    Welcome, Moses. What CS describes above skirts Colorado Revised Statute 12-26.5-105, AKA "straw purchases". But then it's the seller who's on the hook, not the buyer. You could probably get away with it even if you were caught, but the kind of person that'd be happy toplay fast and loose with the law like that is probably not the kind I'd reccomend associating with.You'll take your own chances finding "an adult to purchase" and their reaction.

    Buying from a private seller you don't need to play around with "gifting" and finding loopholes. Kingfish's advice is the best. Particularly about practicing. "Get a pistol in your possession and open carry it" without practice is about the worst advice you could ever take.

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    cscitney87 wrote:
    For now- yeah get a pistol in your possession and open carry it.
    Please don't just grab a gun and strap it on. I would strongly recommend taking some classes and spending considerable time at the range before starting to carry. Carrying a firearm bears significant responsibility, and there are so many things one should address before shouldering that load. For example:

    Situational awareness, weapon retention, laws relevant to the use of deadly force, full understanding of locations where carrying is restricted, how to address law enforcement when encountered, and so much more. One must be prepared to actually USE deadly force if necessary. Are you mentally prepared for that? Not everyone who carries is. Too often I have heard folks say that they'll fire warning shots, or shoot to wound an attacker. Someone with this mindset should not carry. Do you have a temper? There are folks out there that shouldn't carry for this reason.

    Also: Practice, practice, practice!! Carrying a handgun will do you no good if you cannot properly unholster your weapon and accurately fire when needed. Spraying bullets everywhere is not a good idea. Once you've mastered the basics, consider defense scenarios: What if your shooting hand is wounded? Can you draw and fire with your weak hand? An instructor I know has trained himself to draw with his left hand and fire the weapon upside down with amazing accuracyusing his pinky finger on the trigger. (a little off, I know, but...) Are you prepared for a misfire?

    Use this forum. There's a great wealth of information here to be had.

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    Lanearas wrote:
    Situational awareness, weapon retention, laws relevant to the use of deadly force, full understanding of locations where carrying is restricted, how to address law enforcement when encountered, and so much more. One must be prepared to actually USE deadly force if necessary. Are you mentally prepared for that? Not everyone who carries is. Too often I have heard folks say that they'll fire warning shots, or shoot to wound an attacker. Someone with this mindset should not carry. Do you have a temper? There are folks out there that shouldn't carry for this reason.
    That's great advice. In addition to trying guns on for feel at any store, go take a Personal Protection and/or Hunter Safety class. You'll need the former for CCW (or can use the latter in some counties). A good PP class will cover the above as well as live range time. I would say 99% of the hoops to carry a firearm someone should go through are those you need to put yourself through without actually needing to own one.
    An instructor I know has trained himself to draw with his left hand and fire the weapon upside down with amazing accuracyusing his pinky finger on the trigger.
    Holy crap.

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    Hey everybody,
    Thanks for the great insights on everything...( i would quote' em but i think there are a few too many...) as for the 21 year old purchase thing i am sure that i can deal w/ that... i will definitely look around for a class... i know one of the local cops teach a CCW class but i think it would be a good one to take even though i cant CC for a couple years... would such a class be good or should i look for something else?

    Thanks for everything,
    Moses

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    NavyLT wrote:
    mahkagari wrote:
    cscitney87 wrote:
    It would not be illegal for you to gift dollars to a 21+ adult. That adult purchases a pistol. That pistol is gifted to you.

    On the purchase form there is generally a question "Are you buying this firearm for yourself or somebody else?" Look out for that one and anticipate your answer.
    Welcome, Moses. What CS describes above skirts Colorado Revised Statute 12-26.5-105, AKA "straw purchases".
    Respectfully, CRS 12-26.5-105 has been repealed and no longer exists. Additionally, "straw purchase" is a matter of Federal law, not state law and has EVERYTHING to do with the buyer:

    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/71...2----000-.html


    A straw purchase occurs when a person purchases a gun from a licensed dealer using someone else's money with the intent of providing that gun to the person whom the money came from. In that case, the straw purchase violates the law when the purchaser answers the question on the Form 4473, "Are you the actual purchaser of this firearm" with "yes".
    Bingo.

    Say you gave your cousin Joe $300 for Christmas last year. He owns a few nice pistols. Some are used and some are brand new! He's planning on giving you a pistol for your Birthday coming up next month. Nothing illegal about that.

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    luke.moses wrote:
    Hey everybody,
    Thanks for the great insights on everything...( i would quote' em but i think there are a few too many...) as for the 21 year old purchase thing i am sure that i can deal w/ that... i will definitely look around for a class... i know one of the local cops teach a CCW class but i think it would be a good one to take even though i cant CC for a couple years... would such a class be good or should i look for something else?

    Thanks for everything,
    Moses
    Yeah, I think a CCW class would be a good start. It will cover some things that you won't get in a personal defense class. Just make sure you get a good one. You don't really want one that is just the minimum class to get a permit (speaking from experience here.) And you can use that class as your training requirement when you turn 21 for your permit.

    After that you will want to get some more range time and maybe some more training if budget allows.

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    Does anyone know a good place to get those BG paper targets? i figure that would be a better thing to have some practice as opposed to tin cans...

    Moses

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    Regular Member Kingfish's Avatar
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    Any indoor range should be able to hook you up or you could order some online.

    http://www.amazon.com/Law-Enforcemen...197&sr=8-8

    When shooting at a silhouette I NEVER shoot at anything but center of mass. I save my head shots for round targets.

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    Regular Member Kingfish's Avatar
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    And always remember....

    We use force to STOP THE THREAT. NEVER to "kill"

    My choice...

    1) 3 rounds center of mass
    2) Reevaluate the situation
    3) Repeat steps 1-2 until threat is no longer a threat.

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    Kingfish is right. Shoot to stop, not to kill. However, you have to be able to identify situations very quickly that may require kill shots to stop the threat. In other words, spray and pray and mag dumps should be avoided, generally, but may be necessary in certain situations. If you have access to some land, I personally recommend going out and practicing drills (i.e. running before to increase heart rate and get a pseudo-adrenaline rush and shooting from different and awkward positions and taking cover behind what is available, engaging multiple targets, etc.) to help you be prepared for any situation.

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    Firstly, the CHP is always a plus. Without it- you constantly analyze whether or not your pistol will be considered concealed or openly carried. With it- unless you're in Denver- you literally NEVER have to even think twice about how you will dress or what situations you will come into. With that CHP- you are Gold to bend over, jump, hike, whatever- and never get sketched about the tail of your shirt trailing the butt of your pistol.

    Second, the education you gain from a class will NOT be the same. These are not "any ol' classes" that get duplicated across the State. Where you take your test will VERY MUCH depend on the time, skill level, and quality of your education. You may select to go with the http://coloradohandgunsafety.com classes- which can offer you a quick 4 hour In-And-Out class that validates you for a Colorado CHP.

    Thirdly and not to take away from the second point. I believe, wholeheartedly, that a man needs to be Self Reliant. Think about it, old-school, if you will and just agree with me that not everybody learns best in a class room. You should study handgun safety- then get your bloody hands on a handgun! Obviously- LITERALLY ALWAYS Keep The Muzzle Pointed Down- the number one rule of handgun safety. You can better yourself by purchasing extremely cheap rubber or plastic fake bullets that will cycle through your handgun. This way you can have 110% safety when you go to the range with live ammunition for the first time. Remember- keep that muzzle pointed down! No instructor really needed, my friend. Learn it- Do it! Darwin Theory... nature will weed out the weak. Accidents happen and mistakes happen as well.

    I hope you find Value in your experience. I know times are tough and CHP is extremely Not Cheap. Some will pay what you might for rent for a month. You can remain 100% Free of Charge and Open Carry everywhere you can and take it day by day.

    Best of luck and please keep us posted!

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    The OP isn't 21, so he can't get a concealed-carry permit.

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    aye... just a clarification my "newbie" is "new to open carry and OCDO" not to firearms i have been around firearms for many years (both long and short) but that aside i agree that i should really go get some range time... but thanks for the pointers anyways...
    thanks,
    Moses

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    Perfect! Hope to see you out there. There is just absolutely no reason why you shouldn't go ahead and acquire a pistol. Let us know...

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    Dynamite Rabbit wrote:
    The OP isn't 21, so he can't get a concealed-carry permit.
    No, but he can take the classes in preparation. As much backpedaling as CS is doing, he does have a point that as much education and practical experience as one can get in as many formats as possible is a good idea.

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    luke.moses wrote:
    Does anyone know a good place to get those BG paper targets? i figure that would be a better thing to have some practice as opposed to tin cans...

    Moses
    I use my 36" plotter to make targets, $75 roll of paper lasts a month.
    Only need black ink for current practice targets.
    OMG! I am in so much trouble, but "Yes I do".
    Barney and the telatubbies eat up the color inks.

    But bouncing tin cans are very good for second tap at moving target.
    Just have a good down range stop for the second and third shots.
    Sides of a mountain, and old quarries work great.



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    That's a thought... it hadn't even occurred to me to print my own...

    Moses

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    Print your own targets


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