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Thread: "Secrets" - Cypress Point

  1. #1
    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    A group of my wife's schoolteacher friends/teammates met up last night at this hole-in-the-wall on Diamond Springs Road for Happy Hour.

    I got off work, got the motorcycle and rode out there to meet them and spend some time with the missus.

    I was in the place for about 15 or 20 minutes and was halfway through a Yuengling and plate of potato skins (mediocre, at best) when a member of the staff approached me and asked me to step aside with her.

    She said "Sir, the owner does not allow guns in here, I'm going to have to ask you to please put it in your car."

    Of course we all know the drill, everyone has seen me carrying, not safe to leave a weapon in a car and... wait, what's that? I rode a motorcycle. Where, pray-tell, should I lock up my sidearm?

    I finished the potato skin I had started eating, quaffed the last of my pint, kissed my wife and wished the rest of the group well. I learned later that several of them protested ("That's bulls***") while a few others asked my wife if I was a cop. I just got on my bike and rode home.

    Turns out she did me a favor. When I got to Independence and V.B. Blvd the bottom fell out. I had to ride the last 8-10 minutes in the pouring rain... I have been BAPTIZED (first ride in the rain)... anyhow, it rained for a good hour.

    So, "Secrets" in Virginia Beach = gun-unfriendly.

    Also, the school resource officer (sworn V.B. law-enforcement) was there and told my wife he thought it was illegal for me to have the gun on me. Another "cop" who doesn't know the law. Imagine that.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
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    Regular Member vt800c's Avatar
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    wylde007 wrote:
    ..was halfway through a Yuengling ...
    you were good right up to that point. Nevermind the drinking on a bike..(I'm not a preacher)..but I think it has to do with consuming alcohol while carrying a firearm.

    Any comments?
    I sell ObamaBlades: Single-edged razors you can use to either remove the bumper sticker off your car, or slash your wrists..whichever works best for you.

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    vt800c wrote:
    you were good right up to that point. Never mind the drinking on a bike... (I'm not a preacher)... but I think it has to do with consuming alcohol while carrying a firearm.

    Any comments?
    Yes. It's not illegal.

    I have done it numerous times, including places where OC dinners have been hosted, though not during those particular events. I am 100% libertarian/Constitutionalist.

    I have no further comment and none is necessary.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    wylde007 wrote:
    Yes. It's not illegal.

    I have done it numerous times, including places where OC dinners have been hosted, though not during those particular events. I am 100% libertarian/Constitutionalist.

    I have no further comment and none is necessary.
    +1

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    Regular Member AtackDuck's Avatar
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    Pagan wrote:
    wylde007 wrote:
    Yes. It's not illegal.

    I have done it numerous times, including places where OC dinners have been hosted, though not during those particular events. I am 100% libertarian/Constitutionalist.

    I have no further comment and none is necessary.
    +1
    +1

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    -3.

    Just because you can drink alcohol legally and carry, doesn't mean you should. Forget the fact that you are drinking and riding a motorcycle, I'll just stick with the fact that you are drinking and carrying a loaded firearm in a bar. I don't believe it's responsible to drink and carry. If you did need to use your weapon, the fact that you were drinking will bring your credibility and actions into question. You are asking for criminal and civil charges and consequences. Alcohol affects coordination and decision making. That's a fact ( http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/aa63/aa63.htm ). If I was at the bar, I would have confronted you about drinking and carrying, and spoke with the management as well. I don't want some guy in a crowded bar/restaurant drinking and prepared to use his weapon inside if needed. I wouldn't trust your aim especially. If you want a positive image for OC and the VCDL, you should portray a more positive and responsible image. I don't carry at all if I am drinking... not even if I am drinking a little.



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    There is a difference between drinking and having a beer with some food


    Too many people have been DRINKING the MADD kolaid. Yes I know we will hear a story about a drunk driving accident etc. Guess what there are stories about gun accidents as well. Just because some people are incapable of drinking (or carrying a gun) responsibly does not mean that we need a nanny state taking away either right.

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    NovaCop10 wrote:
    -3.

    Just because you can drink alcohol legally and carry, doesn't mean you should. Forget the fact that you are drinking and riding a motorcycle, I'll just stick with the fact that you are drinking and carrying a loaded firearm in a bar. I don't believe it's responsible to drink and carry. If you did need to use your weapon, the fact that you were drinking will bring your credibility and actions into question. You are asking for criminal and civil charges and consequences. Alcohol affects coordination and decision making. That's a fact ( http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/aa63/aa63.htm ). If I was at the bar, I would have confronted you about drinking and carrying, and spoke with the management as well. I don't want some guy in a crowded bar/restaurant drinking and prepared to use his weapon inside if needed. I wouldn't trust your aim especially. If you want a positive image for OC and the VCDL, you should portray a more positive and responsible image. I don't carry at all if I am drinking... not even if I am drinking a little.
    And this is essentially why law enforcement are not allowed to advise on matters of law.

    If you had confronted me you would be in no better position than the owners. Your opinion means exactly zero. What you believe and what the truth is are two very disparate prospects.

    I don't want some cop with an ego problem and a chip on his shoulder making my decisions for me. I'm a big boy. If you confront someone in a bar for the decisions they make, you are instigating a CONFRONTATION. You have no business, no duty and no authority in such a matter.

    I wouldn't trust your aim stone sober. But that's just me.

    You're not better than anyone else. You're just another thug with a badge.

    -1000 for supercop.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
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    wylde007 wrote:
    NovaCop10 wrote:
    -3.

    Just because you can drink alcohol legally and carry, doesn't mean you should. Forget the fact that you are drinking and riding a motorcycle, I'll just stick with the fact that you are drinking and carrying a loaded firearm in a bar. I don't believe it's responsible to drink and carry. If you did need to use your weapon, the fact that you were drinking will bring your credibility and actions into question. You are asking for criminal and civil charges and consequences. Alcohol affects coordination and decision making. That's a fact ( http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/aa63/aa63.htm ). If I was at the bar, I would have confronted you about drinking and carrying, and spoke with the management as well. I don't want some guy in a crowded bar/restaurant drinking and prepared to use his weapon inside if needed. I wouldn't trust your aim especially. If you want a positive image for OC and the VCDL, you should portray a more positive and responsible image. I don't carry at all if I am drinking... not even if I am drinking a little.
    And this is essentially why law enforcement are not allowed to advise on matters of law.

    If you had confronted me you would be in no better position than the owners. Your opinion means exactly zero. What you believe and what the truth is are two very disparate prospects.

    I don't want some cop with an ego problem and a chip on his shoulder making my decisions for me. I'm a big boy. If you confront someone in a bar for the decisions they make, you are instigating a CONFRONTATION. You have no business, no duty and no authority in such a matter.

    I wouldn't trust your aim stone sober. But that's just me.

    You're not better than anyone else. You're just another thug with a badge.

    -1000 for supercop.
    I would have confronted you as a normal bar patron, as any patron should, without identifying myself as LEO. I would only identify myself as a LEO in a situation off duty if it was an extreme situation where someone was being hurt or about to. No duty or any business? Hmmm... let's see.. I will be driving home along with everyone else while you are driving a motorcycle on the same roads after consuming alcohol. I will be in a bar where you think you are a bad@ss with a gun and having some beer. I am not looking for a confrontation... I am looking to stop unsafe behavior.

    Thug with a badge? I think I am better than others? All because I don't think it's right to drink alcohol and carry a firearm in a crowded public restaurant? You are making yourself look like a fool with your comments.

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    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
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    If it is not against the law, it is only your OPINION to express you wouldn't agree with the behavior.

    Having a beer with dinner while OC-ing isn't illegal and if you are sitting there for an hour eating and chatting the alcohol is digested and doesn't affect your driving etc.

    While we are trying to promote a good appearance of OC-ing to the public, I still don't think having 1 beer with dinner is bad. Over indulging would be bad for the movement and illegal because the person would be most likely legally impaired.

    I don't usually drink while OC-ing but if it is good enough for LEO to be able to drink while carrying why should we give a fellow OC **** about it? wilde007 has attended other OC dinners and has shown that he isn't a lush.

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    45acpForMe wrote:
    If it is not against the law, it is only your OPINION to express you wouldn't agree with the behavior.

    Having a beer with dinner while OC-ing isn't illegal and if you are sitting there for an hour eating and chatting the alcohol is digested and doesn't affect your driving etc.

    While we are trying to promote a good appearance of OC-ing to the public, I still don't think having 1 beer with dinner is bad. Over indulging would be bad for the movement and illegal because the person would be most likely legally impaired.

    I don't usually drink while OC-ing but if it is good enough for LEO to be able to drink while carrying why should we give a fellow OC @#$% about it? wilde007 has attended other OC dinners and has shown that he isn't a lush
    "Just because you can drink alcohol legally and carry, doesn't mean you should."

    That was my response in my first post. Obviously I know it's not illegal. It does take an hour for one alcoholic drink to metabolize on average (http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/alerts/l/blnaa35.htm). You are still sitting there drinking at that moment with a loaded firearm, in a bar that has many people much more intoxicated than you inside. It is MY opinion that you should not drink while carrying. I don't understand your comment about LEO being able to drink while carrying? I can tell you that legally LEOs can drink concealed into bars, however, I can also tell you that most departments have rules against drinking and carrying. Also, I know from my experiences, I have been out numerous times with coworkers and none of us carried if we were drinking (we would designate 1 person to be d.d./concealed carrying at times) and obviously we have a greater chance of being attacked given our understandings with previous individuals.

    Let's just think about it this way...Wyldeboy obviously carries a loaded gun into a bar not because of the way it looks, but because he is prepared to use it. Now if there is any situation where he believes he needs to shoot someone, his credibility will be questioned, since alcohol impairs decision making. There is no way around that. I can tell from my Pm's that others agree with me on this one.

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    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
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    NovaCop10 wrote:
    45acpForMe wrote:
    If it is not against the law, it is only your OPINION to express you wouldn't agree with the behavior.

    Having a beer with dinner while OC-ing isn't illegal and if you are sitting there for an hour eating and chatting the alcohol is digested and doesn't affect your driving etc.

    While we are trying to promote a good appearance of OC-ing to the public, I still don't think having 1 beer with dinner is bad. Over indulging would be bad for the movement and illegal because the person would be most likely legally impaired.

    I don't usually drink while OC-ing but if it is good enough for LEO to be able to drink while carrying why should we give a fellow OC @#$% about it? wilde007 has attended other OC dinners and has shown that he isn't a lush
    "Just because you can drink alcohol legally and carry, doesn't mean you should."

    That was my response in my first post.* Obviously I know it's not illegal.* It does take an hour for one alcoholic drink to metabolize on average (http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/alerts/l/blnaa35.htm).* You are still sitting there drinking at that moment with a loaded firearm, in a bar that has many people much more intoxicated than you inside.* It is MY opinion that you should not drink while carrying.* I don't understand your comment about LEO being able to drink while carrying?* I can tell you that legally LEOs can drink concealed into bars, however, I can also tell you that most departments have rules against drinking and carrying.* Also, I know from my experiences, I have been out numerous times with coworkers and none of us carried if we were drinking (we would designate 1 person to be d.d./concealed carrying at times) and obviously we have a greater chance of being attacked given our understandings with previous individuals.*

    Let's just think about it this way...Wyldeboy obviously carries a loaded gun into a bar not because of the way it looks, but because he is prepared to use it.* Now if there is any situation where he believes he needs to shoot someone, his credibility will be questioned, since alcohol impairs decision making.* There is no way around that.* I can tell from my Pm's that others agree with me on this one.
    Now it looks like you are recommending we don't OC in "restaurants" (no bars in VA) since others are intoxicated!?!

    My comment on LEO was two fold, 1) yes they can CC and drink themselves (as well as commonwealth attorneys) and 2) since the law doesn't forbid it they "shouldn't" be able to do anything about it (assuming they are law abiding LEO's).

    Every time "wild007" posts about having a beer with dinner there is always someone that gives him sh1t. I understand the issue of credibility if a shooting does occur but that is the risk he takes. Personally I am more worried about the guy not OC-ing having 3-5 drinks and then drives home.

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    NovaCop10 wrote:
    I would have confronted you as a normal bar patron, as any patron should, without identifying myself as LEO. I would only identify myself as a LEO in a situation off duty if it was an extreme situation where someone was being hurt or about to. No duty or any business? Hmmm... let's see.. I will be driving home along with everyone else while you are driving a motorcycle on the same roads after consuming alcohol. I will be in a bar where you think you are a bad@ss with a gun and having some beer. I am not looking for a confrontation... I am looking to stop unsafe behavior.
    You are simply a self-gratifying, self-righteous know-nothing know-it-all who wants to butt into other people's business because you project your own weaknesses on others. You believe that you wouldn't be safe to drive after one beer, so you assume others wouldn't also.

    Do you honestly believe that confronting someone who is carrying a firearm in a bar would end positively? You are CREATING confrontation where there is none. You are the worst kind of law enforcement, believing that you have some magical ability to persuade law-abiding citizens to do your bidding whenever you want simply because you're "not comfortable".

    Thug with a badge? I think I am better than others? All because I don't think it's right to drink alcohol and carry a firearm in a crowded public restaurant? You are making yourself look like a fool with your comments.
    And you with yours.

    Your opinion is worthless and, frankly, immaterial to this conversation. We work with facts here, and the fact is that I did nothing illegal. The fact is I was asked to leave when I was not breaking any laws. The fact is I obliged the request without causing a scene. The fact is I was not inebriated and was making more the point that there was another GUN-UNFRIENDLY establishment in Hampton Roads that people might want to avoid (read: spend your money elsewhere) and a cop who, similarly to yourself, doesn't seem to either KNOW the law or that he is not above it.

    I can tell from my Pm's that others agree with me on this one.
    You can derive whatever touchy-feely goodness you want from your PMs. There are a lot of OCers who do not believe carrying and drinking combine well. They are entitled to that opinion. You have said, in as many words, that you would actually approach and admonish someone whom you do not know, without even identifying yourself (as though that would matter), for openly carrying a firearm and drinking.

    Let me ask you this - how many concealed carriers do you think are in the restaurant and drinking? Are you going to approach them? Just because it's illegal doesn't mean it ain't happening... and I know several people who do just that, because they believe the law, like your opinion, is bulls**t, and refuse to accede to it. They have made a conscious decision to break an unjust law... do you begrudge them?

    You certainly appear to begrudge me for actually following the letter of the law.

    Let that sink in a bit and then get back to me.

    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
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    NovaCop10 wrote:
    45acpForMe wrote:
    If it is not against the law, it is only your OPINION to express you wouldn't agree with the behavior.

    Having a beer with dinner while OC-ing isn't illegal and if you are sitting there for an hour eating and chatting the alcohol is digested and doesn't affect your driving etc.

    While we are trying to promote a good appearance of OC-ing to the public, I still don't think having 1 beer with dinner is bad. Over indulging would be bad for the movement and illegal because the person would be most likely legally impaired.

    I don't usually drink while OC-ing but if it is good enough for LEO to be able to drink while carrying why should we give a fellow OC @#$% about it? wilde007 has attended other OC dinners and has shown that he isn't a lush
    "Just because you can drink alcohol legally and carry, doesn't mean you should."

    That was my response in my first post. Obviously I know it's not illegal. It does take an hour for one alcoholic drink to metabolize on average (http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/alerts/l/blnaa35.htm). You are still sitting there drinking at that moment with a loaded firearm, in a bar that has many people much more intoxicated than you inside. It is MY opinion that you should not drink while carrying. I don't understand your comment about LEO being able to drink while carrying? I can tell you that legally LEOs can drink concealed into bars, however, I can also tell you that most departments have rules against drinking and carrying. Also, I know from my experiences, I have been out numerous times with coworkers and none of us carried if we were drinking (we would designate 1 person to be d.d./concealed carrying at times) and obviously we have a greater chance of being attacked given our understandings with previous individuals.

    Let's just think about it this way...Wyldeboy obviously carries a loaded gun into a bar not because of the way it looks, but because he is prepared to use it. Now if there is any situation where he believes he needs to shoot someone, his credibility will be questioned, since alcohol impairs decision making. There is no way around that. I can tell from my Pm's that others agree with me on this one.


    .45/Wylde,

    We all know each other and I think that both of you know I am a hardcore 2A, states rights/ individual rights type of guy. I also think that both of you know that my night job is a bouncer position at a certain Hampton watering hole.

    If you were to OC in my establishment, I'd welcome you with open arms. Take one sip of alcohol and I'm going to be forced to ask you to leave.

    I know and understand all of the legalities, but IMVHO, the moment you drink alcohol, your judgement becomes clouded. It's a risk that I personally believe no one carrying a firearm should take.

    Again, I won't argue the legalities because you are absolutely correct there, but I willargue that there is a greater moral responsibility to ensure that one's mind is clear when carrying a firearm.

    No offense intended, just voicing my opinion.

    Craig

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    ODA 226 wrote:
    If you were to OC in my establishment, I'd welcome you with open arms. Take one sip of alcohol and I'm going to be forced to ask you to leave.
    And I would oblige you. But you have made your reasons expressly known. Also, you are acting as an agent of the establishment and, if that is the policy of management, you are within your rights to enforce it.

    I would ask what you intend to do starting July 1? Do you presently frisk patrons entering the premises? Are you going to start? How do you know there isn't someone already in your establishment carrying concealed and drinking?

    I plainly stated that the bartender said "The owner doesn't like guns in here." She said nothing about the consumption of alcohol.

    I know and understand all of the legalities, but IMVHO, the moment you drink alcohol, your judgment becomes clouded. It's a risk that I personally believe no one carrying a firearm should take.
    And you are entitled to that opinion, but for supercop to believe he has any right to confront another "patron" and create conflict for the sake of his own ego is outrageous.

    Again, I won't argue the legalities because you are absolutely correct there, but I will argue that there is a greater moral responsibility to ensure that one's mind is clear when carrying a firearm.
    I just don't buy the MADD indoctrination.

    How about a spoon? A fork? A steak knife? A steak knife is a deadly weapon in the wrong hands (or, alternately, the "right" hands) but they give those out freely at restaurants which serve alcohol.

    What's the difference? Perception.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
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    I'd have a beer with you wylde... which is to say I'd have a beer with any of you.
    Sic Semper Tyrannis

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    "What's the difference? Perception."

    Bingo. You don't have (yet) people making sure that those addicted to coffee (or caffeine) or sugared beverages have consumed those before they leave home and dare drive a car, or God forbid carry a sidearm for their protection, despite the fact that they may not be alert or may be extra moody without their coffee. I may not be fond of seeing someone drinking while OCing, but if it's done with restraint (like anything else) I'm content to stick around and mind my own business. If I think the person may be having more to drink than I am comfortable with I would leave, just like I would if anyone else was doing things to make me uncomfortable. Then again, I'm usually content to mind my own business, but I recognize some people just don't have that gift of self restraint.

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    jmelvin wrote:
    "What's the difference?* Perception."

    Bingo.* You don't have (yet) people making sure that those addicted to coffee (or caffeine) or sugared beverages have consumed those before they leave home and dare drive a car, or God forbid carry a sidearm for their protection, despite the fact that they may not be alert or may be extra moody without their coffee.* I may not be fond of seeing someone drinking while OCing, but if it's done with restraint (like anything else) I'm content to stick around and mind my own business.* If I think the person may be having more to drink than I am comfortable with I would leave, just like I would if anyone else was doing things to make me uncomfortable.* Then again, I'm usually content to mind my own business, but I recognize some people just don't have that gift of self restraint.
    There are other things that affect people too like prescription medicine or antihistimines that make people sleepy & lethargic. So everyone with allergies shouldn't OC? What about people that get migraines? Should they not OC in case a migraine comes on during the day?

    We all know that the Brady bunch run around like chicken little saying that blood will run in the streets (or bars, really restaurants in VA) but I think some fellow OC-ers go a little overboard too. The other 38 states that allow carrying there haven't had blood run in their bars (some do have "bars" not just restaurants).

    So everyone take responsibility for your own actions and leave others alone.

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    45acpForMe wrote:
    So everyone take responsibility for your own actions and leave others alone.
    Amen

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    45acpForMe wrote:
    So everyone take responsibility for your own actions and leave others alone.
    That is all we in the South have ever asked from anyone.


    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
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    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    Pagan wrote:
    45acpForMe wrote:
    So everyone take responsibility for your own actions and leave others alone.
    Amen
    +1
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
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    MSC 45ACP wrote:
    Pagan wrote:
    45acpForMe wrote:
    So everyone take responsibility for your own actions and leave others alone.
    Amen
    +1
    +2. I don't drink while I OC. But, like anything else I do, I don't have some expectation that everyone else behave in the exact same way that I do.

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    wylde007 wrote:
    45acpForMe wrote:
    So everyone take responsibility for your own actions and leave others alone.
    That is all we in the South have ever asked from anyone.

    We've been over this before.
    My position hasn't changed but then I don't have more than a few glasses of wine a year .

    I consider No drinking with a gun a golden rule!

    BUT....unlike Novacop, I don't stick my nose where it doesn't belong.
    If you want to drink, don't hunt around me but what everyone does in town is their own business.

    So everyone take responsibility for your own actions and leave others alone.

    +300

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    peter nap wrote:
    My position hasn't changed but then I don't have more than a few glasses of wine a year.
    What, like all at once?


    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  25. #25
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    wylde007 wrote:
    peter nap wrote:
    My position hasn't changed but then I don't have more than a few glasses of wine a year.
    What, like all at once?

    Getting old sucks. Once upon a time, the wimmin started looking better at about 5 drinks.

    Now, one puts me to sleep.:X

    One thing about carrying is that most people are more tolerant when they have a gun.

    If I were in a bar (assuming there were one in Virginia) and someone confronted me while I was carrying, I'd ignore him. If someone confronted me and I wasn't carrying...I'd knock him on his ass. That's assuming he didn't identify himself as a police officer. Then I'd wonder why he was in a bar


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