Danbud Video

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Hi Guys. I'm still new here and just discovered the Danbus video which I watched today. http://myspacetv.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=18078410First let me say, Danbus....congratulations on keeping your cool and having a level head through the whole ordeal. I'd be very interested in knowing the outcome of this encounter, assuming you filed any official complaints/charges.

Now having said all of that, I just have to ask.....is it really worth it? I mean the cause is 2nd amendment rights which I fully support and although I now live in California, I had a permit to carry when I lived in a different state. I carried CCW most of the time, although I did occassionally OC. So I understand the reason for carrying and the desire to exercise our rights. Still...I'm wondering when the cost of exercising those rights comes at such a potentially high price, is it really worth it? Danbus did everything right when he came in contact with NYPD and he still had a gun pointed at him as he went through the whole ordeal. Some police agencies and theofficers themselves are more understanding and laid back, whereas others are clearly threatened and tend to escalate matters when they see "man with a gun".

Let's remember,in manypolice academies throughoutthe country cops aren't being trained in how to deal with the law abiding citizen who's exercising his 2nd amendment right by openly carrying. They're trained to deal with the threat of "man with a gun"

which is why they show up with lights/sirens andguns drawn. :what:Even though we have the "right" to do it, is it worth it? That's what I'm wondering. The fact that AB1934 passed and is now making its way to the CA. State Senate may make this entire argument a mute point if the bill becomes law, which in all liklihood it will.

Your thoughts?

(video link added 6-18)

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Don Tomas wrote:

Hi Guys. I'm still new here and just discovered the Danbus video which I watched today. First let me say, Danbus....congratulations on keeping your cool and having a level head through the whole ordeal. I'd be very interested in knowing the outcome of this encounter, assuming you filed any official complaints/charges.

Now having said all of that, I just have to ask.....is it really worth it? I mean the cause is 2nd amendment rights which I fully support and although I now live in California, I had a permit to carry when I lived in a different state. I carried CCW most of the time, although I did occassionally OC. So I understand the reason for carrying and the desire to exercise our rights. Still...I'm wondering when the cost of exercising those rights comes at such a potentially high price, is it really worth it? Danbus did everything right when he came in contact with NYPD and he still had a gun pointed at him as he went through the whole ordeal. Some police agencies and theofficers themselves are more understanding and laid back, whereas others are clearly threatened and tend to escalate matters when they see "man with a gun".

Let's remember,in manypolice academies throughoutthe country cops aren't being trained in how to deal with the law abiding citizen who's exercising his 2nd amendment right by openly carrying. They're trained to deal with the threat of "man with a gun"

which is why they show up with lights/sirens andguns drawn. :what:Even though we have the "right" to do it, is it worth it? That's what I'm wondering. The fact that AB1934 passed and is now making its way to the CA. State Senate may make this entire argument a mute point if the bill becomes law, which in all liklihood it will.

Your thoughts?

Click to expand...

Do you have a link for the vdeo?

What do you mean is it worth it? The right to bear arms shall not be infringed.

If a cop arrested you for walking your child toschool and someone asked, "was it worth it?" what would your response be?

We're free in this country or we are not.

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Now having said all of that, I just have to ask.....is it really worth it?

Click to expand...

Good question.

Maybe you will also be interested in seeking out some African Americans who were struck by bricks during the marches in the early sixties and asking them the same about their civil rights activism.

I'm unsure as tohow homosexuals harrassed for their way of life would answer that question as well.

Females being fired for seeking equal pay for equal work? I wonder if getting fired is worth it.

I'm sure everyone has their own level of tolerance for putting up with the hassle of just trying to be accepted for participating in something that is their right. It is an individual trait.

Maybe, if enough of us are willing to endure, it will be better to go to law enforcement, politician, and anti-freedom group web sites who hassle those of us who are simply exercising our civil rights and ask them:

"Since hassling law abiding citizens who are simply exercising their rights has not only failed, but led to costly litigation, loss of jobs for officers, and generally wasting tax payer money......is it really worth it?"




ETA spelling

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kwikrnu wrote:

Don Tomas wrote:

Hi Guys. I'm still new here and just discovered the Danbus video which I watched today. First let me say, Danbus....congratulations on keeping your cool and having a level head through the whole ordeal. I'd be very interested in knowing the outcome of this encounter, assuming you filed any official complaints/charges.

Now having said all of that, I just have to ask.....is it really worth it? I mean the cause is 2nd amendment rights which I fully support and although I now live in California, I had a permit to carry when I lived in a different state. I carried CCW most of the time, although I did occassionally OC. So I understand the reason for carrying and the desire to exercise our rights. Still...I'm wondering when the cost of exercising those rights comes at such a potentially high price, is it really worth it? Danbus did everything right when he came in contact with NYPD and he still had a gun pointed at him as he went through the whole ordeal. Some police agencies and theofficers themselves are more understanding and laid back, whereas others are clearly threatened and tend to escalate matters when they see "man with a gun".

Let's remember,in manypolice academies throughoutthe country cops aren't being trained in how to deal with the law abiding citizen who's exercising his 2nd amendment right by openly carrying. They're trained to deal with the threat of "man with a gun"

which is why they show up with lights/sirens andguns drawn. :what:Even though we have the "right" to do it, is it worth it? That's what I'm wondering. The fact that AB1934 passed and is now making its way to the CA. State Senate may make this entire argument a mute point if the bill becomes law, which in all liklihood it will.

Your thoughts?

Click to expand...

Do you have a link for the vdeo?

What do you mean is it worth it? The right to bear arms shall not be infringed.

If a cop arrested you for walking your child toschool and someone asked, "was it worth it?" what would your response be?

We're free in this country or we are not.

Click to expand...

You'll find the Danbus videoon the forum website. I did a search and came across it after reading about it here. As far as your questions go, it's a bit like comparing a pickle to an apple don't you think? Walking a child to school vs. open carry.
It's not a comparable argument.

Walking a child to school most would agree is necessary and not likely to result in being arrested. Openly carrying a firearm is a totally different story...even if you are carrying legally. See exhibit A (Danbus video)

So is it worth the risk? For some, yes. For others, maybe not.

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Superlite27 wrote:

Now having said all of that, I just have to ask.....is it really worth it?

Click to expand...

Good question.

Maybe you will also be interested in seeking out some African Americans who were struck by bricks during the marches in the early sixties and asking them the same about their civil rights activism.

I'm unsure as tohow homosexuals harrassed for their way of life would answer that question as well.

Females being fired for seeking equal pay for equal work? I wonder if getting fired is worth it.

I'm sure everyone has their own level of tolerance for putting up with the hassle of just trying to be accepted for participating in something that is their right. It is an individual trait.

Maybe, if enough of us are willing to endure, it will be better to go to law enforcement, politician, and anti-freedom group web sites who hassle those of us who are simply exercising our civil rights and ask them:

"Since hassling law abiding citizens who are simply exercising their rights has not only failed, but led to costly litigation, loss of jobs for officers, and generally wasting tax payer money......is it really worth it?"




ETA spelling

Click to expand...

A better argument for comparison sake, but again it comes down to necessity. Civil rights vs. open carry. Civil rights....necessary? Yes. Openly carrying a handgun in public....necessary? Most would argue probably not. The public and law enforcement at large do not advocate it. Does that mean the right to choose should be taken away? No.

I for one am very happy there are people among us who bit the bullet, so to speak and have brought this debate to the national spot light. Many have suffered for the cause and now it's a topic of national debate and nightly news headlines. Thanks to everyone who has paved the way for the restto follow. Hopefully AB1934 will be stricken down, otherwise this debate is a mute point.

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Don Tomas wrote:

Now having said all of that, I just have to ask.....is it really worth it?

Click to expand...

I wonder how many times the original colonists asked themselves that. They were committing an insurection against their parent country and facing off against the most lethal military power on earth (at the time). Thousands marched off to war with little more than their hunting rifles and are buried in graves scattered all over the original 13 colonies.

Considering that THEY thought it was worth it, I think we can put up with a minor inconvenience of being occassionally hassled. As another poster stated, we are either free or we are not. We either have the right to keep and bear arms or we do not. Freedom of speech, freedom of religeon, freedom of the press, the right to a fair trial, the presumption of innocence and the right to face your accuser. Which one of these whould you say ISN'T worth it?

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Don Tomas wrote:

A better argument for comparison sake, but again it comes down to necessity. Civil rights vs. open carry. Civil rights....necessary? Yes. Openly carrying a handgun in public....necessary? Most would argue probably not. The public and law enforcement at large do not advocate it. Does that mean the right to choose should be taken away? No.

Click to expand...

Open carry is a civil right, therefore it is necessary.

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kwikrnu wrote:

Open carry is a civil right, therefore it is necessary.

Click to expand...

Just a small point of contention; open carry is a "civil liberty" not a "civil right". Civil rights are concerned with equality. For instance, black and white folks should all be held to the same standard and be treated equally by the government and law. Civil liberties are about basic rights that are guaranteed for everyone.

Example taken from:
http://public.findlaw.com/civil-rights/civil-rights-basics/civil-rights-vs-liberties.html

"One way to consider the difference between "civil rights" and "civil liberties" is to look at 1) what right is affected, and 2) whose right is affected. For example, as an employee, you do not have the legal right to a promotion, mainly because getting a promotion is not a guaranteed "civil liberty." But, as a female employee you do have the legal right to be free from discrimination in being considered for that promotion -- you cannot legally be denied the promotion based on your gender (or race, or disability, etc.). By choosing not to promote a female worker solely because of the employee's gender, the employer has committed a civil rights violation and has engaged in unlawful employment discrimination based on sex or gender."

Small point, but an important one as we can create new civil rights as our government and society evolves. Civil liberties don't really change over time and exist regardless of recognition from the government.

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Worth it?

I think that was better than trying to get a gun right back after it isgone.

John and Mike (forum founders) were a little late on the scene as it was. Open carry was not too many years away from being a dead letter, I suspect. Just the occurrence ofDan havinga gun pointed at him, and the negative experiences of other OCers--three false arrests that I can recall off the top of my head--says that OC had passed a ways from public consciousness.

Also, it is more than just a 2nd Amendment rights issue. In fact, most of the time when it comes to a police stop, it is a 4th Amendment rights issue. It became quickly apparent that some police were willing to detain and arrest people when no violation of the law had occurred. Essentially, some police were enforcing their opinion and clearly seizing people without authority.

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Don Tomas wrote: "Danbus did everything right when he came in contact with NYPD and he still had a gun pointed at him as he went through the whole ordeal. Some police agencies and theofficers themselves are more understanding and laid back, whereas others are clearly threatened and tend to escalate matters when they see "man with a gun".
Let's remember,in manypolice academies throughoutthe country cops aren't being trained in how to deal with the law abiding citizen who's exercising his 2nd amendment right by openly carrying. They're trained to deal with the threat of "man with a gun" "



Then this needs to change, fast. Yesterday would be good....:banghead:

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frommycolddeadhands wrote:

Don Tomas wrote:

Now having said all of that, I just have to ask.....is it really worth it?

Click to expand...

I wonder how many times the original colonists asked themselves that. They were committing an insurection against their parent country and facing off against the most lethal military power on earth (at the time). Thousands marched off to war with little more than their hunting rifles and are buried in graves scattered all over the original 13 colonies.

Considering that THEY thought it was worth it, I think we can put up with a minor inconvenience of being occassionally hassled. As another poster stated, we are either free or we are not. We either have the right to keep and bear arms or we do not. Freedom of speech, freedom of religeon, freedom of the press, the right to a fair trial, the presumption of innocence and the right to face your accuser. Which one of these whould you say ISN'T worth it?

Click to expand...

Great point! I can't refute that. I too wonder how often the colonists asked themselves, is it worth it? With their very lives and liberty on the line, the stakes werehighandbacking down wasn't an option. To quote Patrick Henry, "Give me liberty or give me death!" As a result, many died for the cause and we have them to thank for the country and the freedoms we have today.

So to bring the discussion back to Open Carry, do we see ourselves as modern daycolonists? Are we fighting for our independence or civil rights? No. We're fighting for the right toopenly carry in public. The laws already allow us the right to carry openly in public. Unfortunately, society at large and the law enforcement community views Open Carry asabhorrent behavior and most believe it's illegal to do so. Most people would consider a police interrogation while a gun is pointed at your head to be more than just a minor inconvenience. What a way to start your sunny Saturday morning. Hey who needscoffee when youcanhave pure 100% adrenalin pumping through your veins each time you get stopped by the police? :what: