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Attempted Abduction in Fairfax - Question on Use of Force

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
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Citizen wrote:
Grapeshot wrote:
Citizen wrote:
I really wish folks would re-size their imagesto fit. I don't have a 10' wide screen.
So you in fact are compensating. :p

Yata hey
:D:D:D:D

Just keep in mind thatI'm not the guy who plays with cannon. :p
For use by authorized personnel only. Wish I had two. :quirky

Yata hey
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
imported post

Grapeshot wrote:
Citizen wrote:
Grapeshot wrote:
Citizen wrote:
I really wish folks would re-size their imagesto fit. I don't have a 10' wide screen.
So you in fact are compensating. :p

Yata hey
:D:D:D:D

Just keep in mind thatI'm not the guy who plays with cannon. :p
SNIP For use by authorized personnel only.
WTF!?!! What did you think I was talking about when I implied you played with cannon?

Eww!!!

:D
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
imported post

Citizen wrote:
Grapeshot wrote:
Citizen wrote:
Grapeshot wrote:
Citizen wrote:
I really wish folks would re-size their imagesto fit. I don't have a 10' wide screen.
So you in fact are compensating. :p

Yata hey
:D:D:D:D

Just keep in mind thatI'm not the guy who plays with cannon. :p
SNIP For use by authorized personnel only.
WTF!?!! What did you think I was talking about when I implied you played with cannon?

Eww!!!

:D
I haven't a clue as to what you are thinking. :uhoh:

I was referring to my cannon - wish I had a whole battery of them. :lol:

Yata hey
 

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla
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skidmark wrote:
W.E.G. wrote:
You think this guy had a record?
So what's your point? That's not a record of violence, to be sure. If anything, it's a record that he's a PITA to folks who would just rather not have to have any dealings with him and tried to use the legal/judicial system instead of any other way of dealing with him.

Andwhilesome keyboard commandos were just itching to pull they irons and shoot him, this just reinforces the considered opinions of some othersthat the use of lethal force is going to be a difficult sell given the totality of circumstances.

Had you come up with a record of felonious assualt & batteries, sexual assaults, abductions, contributing to the delinquiency of minors related to all those other charges - then I might agree that his record has some bearing. BUT ONLY IF a person witnessing the instant event was aware of his criminal record as suggested in this paragraph. Without actual knowledge of such a record, its existence is meaningless until criminal sentencing.

stay safe.
Skid's right. For the most part...pretty Micky Mouse Charges.
 

gis

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2009
Messages
264
Location
Prince William County, Virginia, USA
imported post

peter nap wrote:
skidmark wrote:
W.E.G. wrote:
You think this guy had a record?
So what's your point? That's not a record of violence, to be sure. If anything, it's a record that he's a PITA to folks who would just rather not have to have any dealings with him and tried to use the legal/judicial system instead of any other way of dealing with him.

Andwhilesome keyboard commandos were just itching to pull they irons and shoot him, this just reinforces the considered opinions of some othersthat the use of lethal force is going to be a difficult sell given the totality of circumstances.

Had you come up with a record of felonious assualt & batteries, sexual assaults, abductions, contributing to the delinquiency of minors related to all those other charges - then I might agree that his record has some bearing. BUT ONLY IF a person witnessing the instant event was aware of his criminal record as suggested in this paragraph. Without actual knowledge of such a record, its existence is meaningless until criminal sentencing.

stay safe.
Skid's right. For the most part...pretty Micky Mouse Charges.
I'd bet a few bucks that this guy has either mental or addiction issues. Given no narcotics charges, I would lean towards mental. I've seen too many of them during the past 25 years. With these guys you usually end up with a bunch of bumps and bruises until you can get them in cuffs, but your gun needs to stay holstered.
 

user

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
2,516
Location
Northern Piedmont
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skidmark wrote:
I'm not absolute on the statute and case law here, but will venture that abduction comes under the rubric of great bodily harm. Depending on the circumstances (lack of blood/marriage relationship) it might be possible to say that the fiction of a "reasonable person" would conclude that the abduction was for the purpose of sexual assault/defilement of a child, which dors allow the use of force up to lethal force to replel.

Given that one is allowed to use force to protect the life of an innocent other, then it appears that this might bea case where the application of lethal force would be allowed.
....

Good analysis, Skidmark - I would emphasize your point that it is important that the third party being protected be an "innocent" person. Fairly obvious in this case, though one coming on the scene doesn't know whether the unknown man is the father of the child trying to rescue the child from the female kidnapper. And unless you know who the parties are, it's a real mistake to intervene other than to call 911.

Oh, and one other point, the usual language is "serious bodily injury", that phrase has become so used and interpreted that it's a technical term of art. "Great bodily injury", on the other hand, might require judicial analysis and who knows where that would lead.
 

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
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Thanks, User, for the language lesson. Mea culpa. Sometimes I get perfused and conflicted when bouncing between states and bring foreign terms into the Commonwealth. I'll try harder.

I certainly would not want the Courts to have to decide between "serious" and "great", let alone between "harm" and "injury".:uhoh:

stay safe.
 
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