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Thread: Standard Ordinance Change Request Form

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    Just wondering If anyone ever thaught of or could make a form in like a .pdf or somthing that would allow us to just fill in the blanks ie. ord. county, town, cheif stuff like that with all needed information attached. This may make it a litte easier for me and people who are not as well versed in politics and law to get these removed I have a carry ord. on the books in the city I live in and would like to see it gone soon but I dont know what to say to get said results.

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    There is no legal requirement to remove these ordinances once written. There is a legal prohibition on writing them in the first place but no mechanism in law to remove them.

    Removal is a political and legislative decision only.

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    OK but that has nothing to do with what I asked and people have got these removed or at least educated the powers that be that they are not enforceable. Thanks though I did not know that.

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    Read the effing law yourself. They are not "not enforceable". That is the conclusion of a person no more qualified than you or I but that only sees what is desired in the law.

    66.0409 read it yourself. Believe nothing that you read or hear without verifying it yourself unless it fits your preexisting world view.

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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    Read the effing law yourself. They are not "not enforceable". That is the conclusion of a person no more qualified than you or I but that only sees what is desired in the law.

    66.0409 read it yourself. Believe nothing that you read or hear without verifying it yourself unless it fits your preexisting world view.
    I was not being in any way condacending when I replyed and dont think that your reply was warrented. However I repect your right to say and think whatever you want and I will leave it at that.

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    I saw no condescension and no apology is needed. But do not parrot ignorance just because you agree.

    The conspiracy of ignorance masquerades as common sense. IOW two wrongs do not make 'right'.

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    So what I have asked for and efforts to remove said ord. are a wast of time and effort. I dont understand then why people are writing letters to towns and cities to inform them of said statute and ask for removal of said ord.

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    The conspiracy of ignorance masquerades as common sense.

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    I give up! Why do you feel the need to put people down.I don't ever see you out doing anything to get the word out or attend any picnics. Do you even opencarry? Why are you even here?

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    barronburke wrote:
    Why are you even here?
    To piśśoff self righteous fools. Maybe you should get me banned.

  11. #11
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    looks like we all need a weekend off. i know i do. i vote we all take a weekend off.

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    barronburke wrote:
    Just wondering If anyone ever thaught of or could make a form in like a .pdf or somthing that would allow us to just fill in the blanks ie. ord. county, town, cheif stuff like that with all needed information attached. This may make it a litte easier for me and people who are not as well versed in politics and law to get these removed I have a carry ord. on the books in the city I live in and would like to see it gone soon but I dont know what to say to get said results.
    I am not going to join into this verbal net ******* match that always seems to pop up on this forum. Perhaps some day some of us will just grow up.

    With that...

    There is not a "form" to use, but the e-mail template that was used in Saukville by our forum member Geoff seems to be a very effective one. I am currently using it's wording in many communities.

    Here's what he wrote, edit your local information into it as needed: (I've underlined the parts that should be edited for each location, then un-underline)

    Hope this helps!

    Jay



    <Addressee>,

    I recently came across village ordinance 140-2 which prohibits residents (and non-village LEOs) from possessing an assembled firearm within village limits. This ordinance has been made void and unenforceable by State Statute 66.0409. To avoid any confusion, I believe this ordinance should be removed. I would be greatly appreciative if you would see to it that this issue is addressed at the next village hall meeting.

    Thank you,
    Geoff



    Village ordinance 140-2
    No person except an authorized police officer shall discharge any firearm within the Village or have any firearm in his possession within the Village unless it is unloaded and knocked down and enclosed in a carrying case or other suitable container, provided that the Board may issue permits to an organized gun club to engage in target practice within the Village at times and places designated by the Chief of Police.


    State Statute 66.0409(2)
    Except as provided in subs. (3) and (4), no political subdivision may enact an ordinance or adopt a resolution that regulates the sale, purchase, purchase delay, transfer, ownership, use, keeping, possession, bearing, transportation, licensing, permitting, registration or taxation of any firearm or part of a firearm, including ammunition and reloader components, unless the ordinance or resolution is the same as or similar to, and no more stringent than, a state statute.

    (4) (a) Nothing in this section prohibits a political subdivision from continuing to enforce an ordinance or resolution that is in effect on November 18, 1995, and that regulates the sale, purchase, transfer, ownership, use, keeping, possession, bearing, transportation, licensing, permitting, registration or taxation of any firearm or part of a firearm, including ammunition and reloader components, if the ordinance or resolution is the same as or similar to, and no more stringent than, a state statute.

    (b)If a political subdivision has in effect on November 17, 1995, an ordinance or resolution that regulates the sale, purchase, transfer, ownership, use, keeping, possession, bearing, transportation, licensing, permitting, registration or taxation of any firearm or part of a firearm, including ammunition and reloader components, and the ordinance or resolution is not the same as or similar to a state statute, the ordinance or resolution shall have no legal effect and the political subdivision may not enforce the ordinance or resolution on or after November 18, 1995.


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    Thank you this is what I was looking for.

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    icepik wrote:
    barronburke wrote:
    Just wondering If anyone ever thaught of or could make a form in like a .pdf or somthing that would allow us to just fill in the blanks ie. ord. county, town, cheif stuff like that with all needed information attached. This may make it a litte easier for me and people who are not as well versed in politics and law to get these removed I have a carry ord. on the books in the city I live in and would like to see it gone soon but I dont know what to say to get said results.
    I am not going to join into this verbal net ******* match that always seems to pop up on this forum. Perhaps some day some of us will just grow up.

    With that...

    There is not a "form" to use, but the e-mail template that was used in Saukville by our forum member Geoff seems to be a very effective one. I am currently using it's wording in many communities.

    Here's what he wrote, edit your local information into it as needed: (I've underlined the parts that should be edited for each location, then un-underline)

    Hope this helps!

    Jay

    <fill-in form deleted for length
    >
    Jay, thanks for a reasonable response to a reasonable question.

    Dave

    Dave
    45ACP-For when you care enough to send the very best-
    Fight for "Stand Your Ground " legislation!

    WI DA Gerald R. Fox:
    "These so-called 'public safety' laws only put decent law-abiding citizens at a dangerous disadvantage when it comes to their personal safety, and I for one am glad that this decades-long era of defective thinking on gun issues is over..."

    Remember: Don't make old People mad. We don't like being old in the first place, so it doesn't take much to piss us off.

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    If I look up a town's governmental structure, who are the most effective targets for these ordinance change letters?

    Dave
    Dave
    45ACP-For when you care enough to send the very best-
    Fight for "Stand Your Ground " legislation!

    WI DA Gerald R. Fox:
    "These so-called 'public safety' laws only put decent law-abiding citizens at a dangerous disadvantage when it comes to their personal safety, and I for one am glad that this decades-long era of defective thinking on gun issues is over..."

    Remember: Don't make old People mad. We don't like being old in the first place, so it doesn't take much to piss us off.

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    The board or council. Address the request to the chairman/president AND clerk requesting copies to the members of the board or council.

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    Janesville has a city council with the power to enact new city laws, amend present laws, and repeal existing ones. The city manager carries out their directions. I just sent the following email to all the council members:

    Dear Janesville City Council Members,
    I recently became aware of city ordinance 9.84.010 which prohibits residents from carrying a pistol or revolver. This ordinance has been made void and unenforceable by State Statute 66.0409, since the ordinance is more stringent than Chapter 941 of the Wisconsin State Statutes. To avoid any confusion, I believe this ordinance should be changed to comply with state law. I would be greatly appreciative if you would see to it that this issue is addressed at the next city council meeting.

    Thank you,
    <Signature>
    Exhibits: Janesville City Ordinances Chapter 9.84
    Wisconsin State Statute 66.0409(2)

    [/b]Attachments: Wisconsin State Statutes Chapter 941


    Janesville City Ordinances

    Title 9[/b]
    Public Peace-Morals-Welfare[/b]
    VIII. WEAPONS
    [/b]
    Chapter 9.84[/b]
    Section:[/b]
    9.84.010 Prohibitions—Exceptions—Definitions
    [/b]
    A. Carrying dangerous or concealed weapons is prohibited. Selling certain weapons is prohibited

    D. "Dangerous weapon"[/b] means and includes any instrument which by its capabilities of use is liable to produce death or great bodily harm. The following are dangerous per se: blackjack, billy, sand club, bludgeon, slingshot, slung shot, pistol, revolver; any instrument which impels a missile by compressed air, spring, or other means; any weapon upon which loaded or blank cartridges are used, crossknuckles, knuckles of any metal, barbed or blade type arrowhead, bowieknife, knife, dirk, dagger, switchblade knife, or any knife which has a blade that may be drawn without the necessity of contact with the blade itself but is automatically opened by slight pressure on the handle or some other part of the knife and is commonly known as a switchblade knife, straight edge razor or any other knife having a blade three inches or longer. Instruments not herein specifically enumerated are more the less dangerous weapons when they fall within the terms of the definitions in subsections C and D of this section. (Priorcode s. 19.02(1)).


    Wisconsin State Statutes
    State Statute 66.0409(2)[/b]
    Except as provided in subs. (3) and (4), no political subdivision may enact an ordinance or adopt a resolution that regulates the sale, purchase, purchase delay, transfer, ownership, use, keeping, possession, bearing, transportation, licensing, permitting, registration or taxation of any firearm or part of a firearm, including ammunition and reloader components, unless the ordinance or resolution is the same as or similar to, and no more stringent than, a state statute.

    (4) (a) Nothing in this section prohibits a political subdivision from continuing to enforce an ordinance or resolution that is in effect on November 18, 1995, and that regulates the sale, purchase, transfer, ownership, use, keeping, possession, bearing, transportation, licensing, permitting, registration or taxation of any firearm or part of a firearm, including ammunition and reloader components, if the ordinance or resolution is the same as or similar to, and no more stringent than, a state statute.

    (b)If a political subdivision has in effect on November 17, 1995, an ordinance or resolution that regulates the sale, purchase, transfer, ownership, use, keeping, possession, bearing, transportation, licensing, permitting, registration or taxation of any firearm or part of a firearm, including ammunition and reloader components, and the ordinance or resolution is not the same as or similar to a state statute, the ordinance or resolution shall have no legal effect and the political subdivision may not enforce the ordinance or resolution on or after November 18, 1995.
    State Statute 941 - Please see attachment
    Dave
    45ACP-For when you care enough to send the very best-
    Fight for "Stand Your Ground " legislation!

    WI DA Gerald R. Fox:
    "These so-called 'public safety' laws only put decent law-abiding citizens at a dangerous disadvantage when it comes to their personal safety, and I for one am glad that this decades-long era of defective thinking on gun issues is over..."

    Remember: Don't make old People mad. We don't like being old in the first place, so it doesn't take much to piss us off.

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    davegran wrote:
    Janesville has a city council with the power to enact new city laws, amend present laws, and repeal existing ones. The city manager carries out their directions. I just sent the following email to all the council members:

    Dear Janesville City Council Members,
    I recently became aware of city ordinance 9.84.010 which prohibits residents from carrying a pistol or revolver. This ordinance has been made void and unenforceable by State Statute 66.0409, since the ordinance is more stringent than Chapter 941 of the Wisconsin State Statutes. To avoid any confusion, I believe this ordinance should be changed to comply with state law. I would be greatly appreciative if you would see to it that this issue is addressed at the next city council meeting. <edited to remove statutes for length>
    I just received the following email from Janesville City Council President, Kathy Voskuil:

    Mr. XXX,

    Thank you for your email regarding a request to change city Ordinance 9.84.010. Your request has been forwarded to the Janesville City Attorney for review. Thank you again for taking time to write the Council!

    Sincerely,


    Kathy Voskuil


    I'm pleased that they took my email seriously. I credit Jay (icepik) and Doug H. for showing me how to do it effectively.

    Dave

    Dave
    45ACP-For when you care enough to send the very best-
    Fight for "Stand Your Ground " legislation!

    WI DA Gerald R. Fox:
    "These so-called 'public safety' laws only put decent law-abiding citizens at a dangerous disadvantage when it comes to their personal safety, and I for one am glad that this decades-long era of defective thinking on gun issues is over..."

    Remember: Don't make old People mad. We don't like being old in the first place, so it doesn't take much to piss us off.

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    Update on the Janesville city ordinance 9.84.010 which prohibits residents from carrying a pistol or revolver.:

    Here is an email I just received from another council member with some further information, and my response to him:


    McDonald, Tom wrote:
    Code:
    Hi David,
    
    Thank you for bringing this to our attention.  The city attorney and police chief are working on updating this and a couple other ordinances.  Hopefully we will have it on the next agenda.
    
    _________________________________________________________________________________________
    Thomas P. McDonald, Esq.
    City Council | Community Development Authority | TIF District Representative
    Hi Thomas,
    Thank you for informing me of the progress of my request. When a citizen's voice is heard and promptly responded to by a governing body, that is a very, very good thing! Kudos to the Janesville City Council.

    Sincerely,



    Now I will try the same reasonable approach with Whitewater.

    Dave

    Dave
    45ACP-For when you care enough to send the very best-
    Fight for "Stand Your Ground " legislation!

    WI DA Gerald R. Fox:
    "These so-called 'public safety' laws only put decent law-abiding citizens at a dangerous disadvantage when it comes to their personal safety, and I for one am glad that this decades-long era of defective thinking on gun issues is over..."

    Remember: Don't make old People mad. We don't like being old in the first place, so it doesn't take much to piss us off.

  20. #20
    Regular Member davegran's Avatar
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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by davegran View Post
    ....

    Now I will try the same reasonable approach with Whitewater.

    Dave
    I sent the following email to all members of the Whitewater City Council back on 6-23:

    "Dear Whitewater City Council Members,
    I recently became aware of city ordinance 7.72.030 which prohibits citizens from carrying a pistol or revolver in a public place in the City of Whitewater. This ordinance has been made void and unenforceable by State Statute 66.0409, since the ordinance is more stringent than Chapter 941 of the Wisconsin State Statutes. To avoid any confusion, I believe this ordinance should be changed to comply with state law. I would be greatly appreciative if you would see to it that this issue is addressed at the next city council meeting.

    Thank you,

    XXXX


    Exhibits: Municipal Code of Whitewater Chapter 7.72
    Wisconsin State Statute 66.0409(2)

    Attachments: Wisconsin State Statutes Chapter 941"



    To date I have not even received an acknowledgment of my request. Since I'm learning this Ordinance Change process as I go, what would be the next step to ramp up the pressure on them?

    Dave

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    Quote Originally Posted by davegran View Post
    I sent the following email to all members of the Whitewater City Council back on 6-23:

    "Dear Whitewater City Council Members,
    I recently became aware of city ordinance 7.72.030 which prohibits citizens from carrying a pistol or revolver in a public place in the City of Whitewater. This ordinance has been made void and unenforceable by State Statute 66.0409, since the ordinance is more stringent than Chapter 941 of the Wisconsin State Statutes. To avoid any confusion, I believe this ordinance should be changed to comply with state law. I would be greatly appreciative if you would see to it that this issue is addressed at the next city council meeting.

    Thank you,

    XXXX


    Exhibits: Municipal Code of Whitewater Chapter 7.72
    Wisconsin State Statute 66.0409(2)

    Attachments: Wisconsin State Statutes Chapter 941"



    To date I have not even received an acknowledgment of my request. Since I'm learning this Ordinance Change process as I go, what would be the next step to ramp up the pressure on them?

    Dave

    I would give them a little more time. Most councils are volunteer positions so they might not see stuff right away.

    Also, are you a Whitewater resident? If not, they may not respond because you do not have 'standing'.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    I would give them a little more time. Most councils are volunteer positions so they might not see stuff right away. Also, are you a Whitewater resident? If not, they may not respond because you do not have 'standing'.
    Absolutely wrong re "councils are volunteer positions." Salary is mandated by statute.

  23. #23
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Huffman View Post
    Absolutely wrong re "councils are volunteer positions." Salary is mandated by statute.
    Sorry, I mispoke. I guess I meant part-time so that they ma only work in their offices a couple days around the meeting times.

  24. #24
    Regular Member davegran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    I would give them a little more time. Most councils are volunteer positions so they might not see stuff right away.

    Also, are you a Whitewater resident? If not, they may not respond because you do not have 'standing'.
    The Janesville City Council responded in hours to my request and yes, I have a Whitewater address.

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    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by barronburke View Post
    Just wondering If anyone ever thaught of or could make a form in like a .pdf or somthing that would allow us to just fill in the blanks ie. ord. county, town, cheif stuff like that with all needed information attached. This may make it a litte easier for me and people who are not as well versed in politics and law to get these removed I have a carry ord. on the books in the city I live in and would like to see it gone soon but I dont know what to say to get said results.
    I agree barronburke. Having a form or some sort of guidance for us less articulate writers is a very good idea. Its a shame you can't feel safe asking for some help from those who are. But thats the way it is.

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