Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 50

Thread: Advice needed on "Folding" rifle legal - issues involved

  1. #1
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Taylor, Wayne County, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,047

    Post imported post

    I'm thinking of picking one of these up as a "bug-out" rifle. I am concerned that I may run into issues carrying it from time to time (transport laws etc..)
    ================================================== =========
    The SUB-2000 is a self-loading carbine for pistol cartridges. Different versions of the SUB-2000 will accept most modern handgun magazines; see below for a complete list. The SUB-2000 has a greatly enhanced accuracy and extended range compared to a handgun. The superior precision is also very useful against small or partially covered targets at shorter range. The amount of training to master the SUB-2000 is only a fraction of that required for a handgun.

    The SUB RIFLE-2000 has been developed from our highly successful SUB-9 rifle. Although retaining some features of the old rifle, the SUB-2000 is a completely new design. Emphasis has been put on consumer safety, but without impeding the performance. Polymers are used to a large extent, resulting in increased durability and reduced price. The SUB-2000 is available in 9 mm Luger or .40 S&W calibers.

    The bolt can be locked in the rear position by the operating handle. The main safety is of protected push bolt type disconnecting the trigger bar and interlocking the hammer and rasear. By rotating the barrel upwards and back, the SUB-2000 can be reduced to a size of 16" x 7" to facilitate secure storage and utilize the internal deployment lock which is operated by a proprietary key. The rear sight is of aperture type and the fluorescent front sight can be adjusted for windage and elevation. The SUB-2000 can easily be disassembled for cleaning or inspection without tools.

    TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS

    Calibers: 9mm Luger 40 S&W
    Weight unloaded: 4.0 lbs. 1.8kg
    Length Open: 29.5" 749mm
    Length Closed: 16" 406mm
    Barrel length: 16.1" 408mm
    Aperture rear, Circular hood, Adjustable front Practical range/ over : 150yds 150m
    Rifle features an internal keyed deployment lock. Rifle can be reduced to a size of16" x 7" to facilitate secure storage: 406 x 178 mm

    Description MSRP
    SUB-2000 $ 409.00


    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Taylor, Wayne County, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,047

    Post imported post

    Opened pic
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

  3. #3
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Waterford, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    526

    Post imported post

    not sure if that would be a MI pistol or what since it folds down and is unuseable...

    but either way avoid the garbage keltec makes

  4. #4
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Taylor, Wayne County, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,047

    Post imported post

    Beerme wrote:
    not sure if that would be a MI pistol or what since it folds down and is unuseable...

    but either way avoid the garbage keltec makes
    Yeah that's what I'm trying to figure out?

    As for the quality this thing seems to get good reviews. I'm not expecting it to perform like an AR, just looking for something compact that will accept my primary pistol's mags...that makes the pickings pretty slim.
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

  5. #5
    Guest

    Post imported post

    Less than 30" long open requires registration as a pistol.

    Beerme is talking smack. Kel-tec is good quality.

    Oh I forgot. He's so smart that he didn't have to sit through the whole CPL class because he knew more than the instructor.

    Just remember Beerme... The most important stuff that you learn is the stuff you learn after you already know everything.

  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Taylor, Wayne County, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,047

    Post imported post

    Thanks for the help Pat.
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Jackson , Michigan, USA
    Posts
    985

    Post imported post

    Beerme wrote:
    not sure if that would be a MI pistol or what since it folds down and is unuseable...

    but either way avoid the garbage keltec makesÂ*

    Beer me are you gonna start making guns?


    Garbage 99 percent of people I know with keltec's
    love them

  8. #8
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Waterford, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    526

    Post imported post

    I dont see the problem in someone not liking a gun company...
    my personal advice is avoid it for a bug out gun
    they make a nice light lil gun for sure but that isn't something I would trust as a "bug out gun"
    Their handguns have come along from where they started though and are good carry pieces but thats just my opinion.


    And pat when did I say I was so smart?
    I came in here and said I am not sure where that would fall because I do not have any experience with having to register that gun.

    an G9OS i understand what you're saying about the mag thing I can see the convenience in that.

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Macomb County, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,865

    Post imported post

    -CV67PAT- wrote:
    Less than 30" long open requires registration as a pistol.

    Beerme is talking smack. Kel-tec is good quality.

    Oh I forgot. He's so smart that he didn't have to sit through the whole CPL class because he knew more than the instructor.

    Just remember Beerme... The most important stuff that you learn is the stuff you learn after you already know everything.
    Not suprising! Couldn't go 3 posts in without making a dig on someone.

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Kalamazoo, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    576

    Post imported post

    kal tec makes good weapons, they work, they areinexpensive, and if they were junk they would go out of business enough said .

    just my opinion, and i am sure there are some that would say my opinion it isn't worth much BUT it is my opinion and i like it

  11. #11
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Mulligan's Valley
    Posts
    4,830

    Post imported post

    mastiff69 wrote:
    kal tec makes good weapons, they work, they areinexpensive, and if they were junk they would go out of business enough said .
    I consider them the Ford Tempo of guns. A point A to point B appliance. You'll get to your destination, but not in any style.

    I think it's a bit weak for a rifle, I personally would probably go for a SU16 instead, unless of course if you're looking for a zombie grade load out of ammo.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Warren, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    228

    Post imported post

    those things have been for sale as long as i have been into guns. not real impressive. i would save the money and put it towards a nicer piece.

  13. #13
    Guest

    Post imported post

    mikestilly wrote:
    -CV67PAT- wrote:
    Less than 30" long open requires registration as a pistol.

    Beerme is talking smack. Kel-tec is good quality.

    Oh I forgot. He's so smart that he didn't have to sit through the whole CPL class because he knew more than the instructor.

    Just remember Beerme... The most important stuff that you learn is the stuff you learn after you already know everything.
    Not suprising! Couldn't go 3 posts in without making a dig on someone.
    IceBitch had a lot to tell me about you too while at the party a couple of weeks ago. Want to hear some of it? I couldn't believe what I was hearing you say to her on the phone either. You're pretty pathetic Mike. Oh and just to let you know. The old guy in the picture with her... guess who?

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Jackson , Michigan, USA
    Posts
    985

    Post imported post

    -CV67PAT- wrote:
    mikestilly wrote:
    -CV67PAT- wrote:
    Less than 30" long open requires registration as a pistol.

    Beerme is talking smack. Kel-tec is good quality.

    Oh I forgot. He's so smart that he didn't have to sit through the whole CPL class because he knew more than the instructor.

    Just remember Beerme... The most important stuff that you learn is the stuff you learn after you already know everything.
    Not suprising! Couldn't go 3 posts in without making a dig on someone.
    IceBitch had a lot to tell me about you too while at the party a couple of weeks ago. Want to hear some of it? I couldn't believe what I was hearing you say to her on the phone either. You're pretty pathetic Mike. Oh and just to let you know. The old guy in the picture with her... guess who?
    Could we all please keep everyone personal life off an open carry gun forum?????

    please and thank you!!!

  15. #15
    Regular Member malignity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Warren, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,101

    Post imported post

    Personally, I don't care for Kel-Tec either. I looked at a PF-9, as a cheaper comparison to a Kahr PM9, which I've shot numerous times. To me, it felt VERY light and almost toylike. I slid open the slide, flipped it upside down to check out the rails, and there was a big honking burr in one of them. I ran my thumb across it and it SLICED MY THUMB OPEN! It was on there pretty good, and would probably effect the function of the firearm. I pointed it out to the gunstore clerk, and he chuckled at me.

    I figured what the hell, I have a free gun rental coupon, so I might as well rent one anyway, just to see how much kick they had. The clerk laughed at me and told me 'Kel Tec's aren't range guns. They last 3,000-5,000 rounds, and then they break. We don't rent them out. They're strictly for a learn-to-use-and-then-carry basis, nothing more.'

    That unnerved me a bit. If I can't shoot the fricking HELL out of my gun through any element, I'm not going to trust it with my life.

    Btw, that gun is atrociously ugly.
    All opinions posted on opencarry.org are my own, and do not necessarily reflect the views of opencarry.org or Michigan Open Carry Inc.

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Warren, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    56

    Post imported post

    It must be registered as a "Short Barreled rifle" and tax stamp is needed!

    whoops.....just saw the barrel length is over 16 inches, guess that makes it ok....?:what:

  17. #17
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Lawrence, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    3,845

    Post imported post

    coffee4meplz wrote:
    It must be registered as a "Short Barreled rifle" and tax stamp is needed!
    Not true as the barrel is 16.1 inches.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  18. #18
    Guest

    Post imported post

    coffee4meplz wrote:
    It must be registered as a "Short Barreled rifle" and tax stamp is needed!

    whoops.....just saw the barrel length is over 16 inches, guess that makes it ok....?:what:
    Couldn't be registered as a SBR in Michigan. They are unlawful to import or possess.

  19. #19
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Troy, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,321

    Post imported post

    cabman1 wrote:
    -CV67PAT- wrote:
    mikestilly wrote:
    -CV67PAT- wrote:
    Less than 30" long open requires registration as a pistol.

    Beerme is talking smack. Kel-tec is good quality.

    Oh I forgot. He's so smart that he didn't have to sit through the whole CPL class because he knew more than the instructor.

    Just remember Beerme... The most important stuff that you learn is the stuff you learn after you already know everything.
    Not suprising! Couldn't go 3 posts in without making a dig on someone.
    IceBitch had a lot to tell me about you too while at the party a couple of weeks ago. Want to hear some of it? I couldn't believe what I was hearing you say to her on the phone either. You're pretty pathetic Mike. Oh and just to let you know. The old guy in the picture with her... guess who?
    Could we all please keep everyone personal life off an open carry gun forum?????

    please and thank you!!!
    +2
    don't worry, the ban hammer should be here soon
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

  20. #20
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Troy, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,321

    Post imported post

    btw, my cousin in PA has one of these rifles and he likes it OK. i don't think keltec is of any less quality than any other value priced gun. as far as function goes, they're just fine, they may just not win first place in a beauty contest.
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Jackson , Michigan, USA
    Posts
    985

    Post imported post


  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Jackson , Michigan, USA
    Posts
    985

    Post imported post

    -CV67PAT- wrote:
    [quote]mikestilly wrote: [quote]-CV67PAT- wrote:

    IceBitch had a lot to tell me about you too while at the party a couple of weeks ago. Want to hear some of it? I couldn't believe what I was hearing you say to her on the phone either. You're pretty pathetic Mike. Oh and just to let you know. The old guy in the picture with her... guess who?

    This is way out of line!! I for one will not post on ocdo website.I believe John and mike should have
    taken legal actions against pat along time ago. I urge all members of Michigan Open carry to stop using this site. We do have our own!! Until mike and john get a handle on there site.If every decent person stops using this site maybe that will send a message to Mike and John!! If not well they can have there site.

    Enjoy

  23. #23
    Guest

    Post imported post

    Blah Blah Blah... Someone's heads going to explode, and its all Pat's Fault. You all act like he said something negative?

  24. #24
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,544

    Post imported post

    Any rifle that's ORIGINALLY MANUFACTURED to be under 26" OAL, yet retains a 16" barrel, is legal to possess in Michigan.

    If it's modified to be under 26", regardless of barrel length, then it's an illegal SBR.

  25. #25
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Taylor, Wayne County, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,047

    Post imported post

    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    Any rifle that's ORIGINALLY MANUFACTURED to be under 26" OAL, yet retains a 16" barrel, is legal to possess in Michigan.

    If it's modified to be under 26", regardless of barrel length, then it's an illegal SBR.
    So to be clear...I need to register it as a pistol then? I would prefer not to, as will most likely never carry it as a pistol.

    Thanks in advance for any info.
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •