• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Advice needed on "Folding" rifle legal - issues involved

C

cabman1

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2009
Messages
985
Location
Jackson , Michigan, USA
imported post

-CV67PAT- wrote:
mikestilly wrote:
-CV67PAT- wrote:
IceBitch had a lot to tell me about you too while at the party a couple of weeks ago. Want to hear some of it? I couldn't believe what I was hearing you say to her on the phone either. You're pretty pathetic Mike. Oh and just to let you know. The old guy in the picture with her... guess who?
Click to expand...


This is way out of line!! I for one will not post on ocdo website.I believe John and mike should have
taken legal actions against pat along time ago. I urge all members of Michigan Open carry to stop using this site. We do have our own!! Until mike and john get a handle on there site.If every decent person stops using this site maybe that will send a message to Mike and John!! If not well they can have there site.

Enjoy
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
G

Guest

Guest
imported post

Blah Blah Blah... Someone's heads going to explode, and its all Pat's Fault. You all act like he said something negative?
 
Z

zigziggityzoo

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Nov 28, 2008
Messages
1,543
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
imported post

Any rifle that's ORIGINALLY MANUFACTURED to be under 26" OAL, yet retains a 16" barrel, is legal to possess in Michigan.

If it's modified to be under 26", regardless of barrel length, then it's an illegal SBR.
 
Glock9mmOldStyle

Glock9mmOldStyle

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Messages
2,038
Location
Taylor, Wayne County, Michigan, USA
imported post

zigziggityzoo wrote:
Any rifle that's ORIGINALLY MANUFACTURED to be under 26" OAL, yet retains a 16" barrel, is legal to possess in Michigan.

If it's modified to be under 26", regardless of barrel length, then it's an illegal SBR.
Click to expand...
So to be clear...I need to register it as a pistol then? I would prefer not to, as will most likely never carry it as a pistol.

Thanks in advance for any info.
 
Z

zigziggityzoo

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Nov 28, 2008
Messages
1,543
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
imported post

Glock9mmOldStyle wrote:
zigziggityzoo wrote:
Any rifle that's ORIGINALLY MANUFACTURED to be under 26" OAL, yet retains a 16" barrel, is legal to possess in Michigan.

If it's modified to be under 26", regardless of barrel length, then it's an illegal SBR.
Click to expand...
So to be clear...I need to register it as a pistol then? I would prefer not to, as will most likely never carry it as a pistol.

Thanks in advance for any info. 
Click to expand...

Any firearm that is less than 30" in OAL is required to be registered in MI.
 
F

Fishous

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2009
Messages
39
Location
Ludington, Michigan, USA
imported post

I know of one gun shop that I have argued with over this. He sells and registers them as rifles, I think mainly because:

750.222
(e) “Pistol” means a loaded or unloaded firearm that is 30 inches or less in length, or a loaded or unloaded firearm that by its construction and appearance conceals itself as a firearm.

(j) “Rifle” means a firearm designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed metallic cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger.

As you can see, for the Kel-Tec sub 2000, these two conflict with each other, as it is less than 30 inches, yet it's designed to be fired from the shoulder.

BUT, 28.422 (which covers purchase requirements) defines:
Sec. 1. As used in this act:
(e) “Pistol” means a loaded or unloaded firearm that is 30 inches or less in length, or a loaded or unloaded firearm that by its construction and appearance conceals it as a firearm.

but it does not define a rifle as 750.222 does.

So what does a person do if the FFL fills out the paperwork as a RIFLE and tells you it's not a pistol?
 
Z

zigziggityzoo

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Nov 28, 2008
Messages
1,543
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
imported post

Fishous wrote:
I know of one gun shop that I have argued with over this. He sells and registers them as rifles, I think mainly because:

750.222
(e) “Pistol” means a loaded or unloaded firearm that is 30 inches or less in length, or a loaded or unloaded firearm that by its construction and appearance conceals itself as a firearm.

(j) “Rifle” means a firearm designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed metallic cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger.

As you can see, for the Kel-Tec sub 2000, these two conflict with each other, as it is less than 30 inches, yet it's designed to be fired from the shoulder.

BUT, 28.422 (which covers purchase requirements) defines:
Sec. 1. As used in this act:
(e) “Pistol” means a loaded or unloaded firearm that is 30 inches or less in length, or a loaded or unloaded firearm that by its construction and appearance conceals it as a firearm.

but it does not define a rifle as 750.222 does.

So what does a person do if the FFL fills out the paperwork as a RIFLE and tells you it's not a pistol?
Click to expand...

If it's less than 30", it can be both a Rifle and a Pistol, in MI. The two definitions are not mutually exclusive.

A gun can be FEDERALLY considered a Rifle and still be a Pistol, and need registration.
 
Z

zpatagus

New member
Joined
Feb 12, 2010
Messages
8
Location
, ,
imported post

If you bought a Sub 2000 in another state as a rifle and then added 1/2" to either the barrel or buttstock to make the OAL 30" you would not have to register it as a pistol in Mich.
 
DetroitBiker

DetroitBiker

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Messages
318
Location
USA
imported post

zpatagus wrote:
If you bought a Sub 2000 in another state as a rifle and then added 1/2" to either the barrel or buttstock to make the OAL 30" you would not have to register it as a pistol in Mich.
Click to expand...
correct, if your adding say a flash hider to the barrel make sure its permanently fixed, like welded on,not the set screw kind. or it wont count.
 
Glock9mmOldStyle

Glock9mmOldStyle

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Messages
2,038
Location
Taylor, Wayne County, Michigan, USA
imported post

I found one locally & guy says I can register it as a rifle as it has the factory stock extension installed on it bringing it to just over 30 inches... sounds a little "iffy" the last thing I want is trouble over something that will most likely be a range plinker.

I guess if I used PERMANENT LOCK-TITE on the butt stock ext. screw the law should be happy with that?

What do you guys think?
 
Glock9mmOldStyle

Glock9mmOldStyle

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Messages
2,038
Location
Taylor, Wayne County, Michigan, USA
I bought one & MAN I LIKE IT! At 25yrd this thing shoots clover leafs see pic! Not bad for a 16 inch barrel & 9mm ball ammo! Plus I can use the mags in my G17 ;)

P.S. This "new" format sucks in my opinion as related to posting pics.
s2k_1.jpg
 
malignity

malignity

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2008
Messages
1,101
Location
Warren, Michigan, USA
John is working on tweaking things. It'll take some time to get used to, and for the admins to get things as smooth as silk..

Anyway, pretty good aim, but I've said it before, and I'll say it again, damn, that is an UGLY gun. :p
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top