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Thread: private armed security questions

  1. #1
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    hey all. this ones directed towards someone who has experience in private detail or the laws regarding.

    my brother and his friend are opening up a big place and questioned me about doing night patrol. I have a CCW but will most likely be open carrying to make sure nobody brakes in or vandalizes.

    my question is. whats the legalities or paperwork required to carry a security badge, security T-shirt, and of course my gun and a flashlight....

    also. how would it work if someone trespassed or broke in. am i allowed handcuffs to detain until police arrive?

    any insight would be appreciated. thanks

    -cody

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    While I don't have experience in the matter, I think you need a sheriff's card to work security. Your username leads me to believe this is Vegas area so here's a link:

    http://www.lvmpd.com/permits/workcards_types.html

    NRS 648.060 http://www.leg.state.nv.us/NRS/NRS-6...l#NRS648Sec060


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    yea i was thinking that since i wouldnt be working for a company and that i would pretty much just be making my presence known while carrying (which is what i do on a day to day) that no special permits would be needed. i dont think wearing a "security" shirt would be breaking any kind of law.

  4. #4
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    I am no expert however, as long as the patrols are on the property I am pretty sure the property owner or his designee can set up their own rules. As long as you are legal to carry, you can carry with the owners permission. As far as badge, security shirt again it is up to the property owner and security lead to decide what gear or uniform is required. If the decision is to have an official looking badge, go on-line and pick out a design. There is no law that says you cannot have an official looking badge. I work a part time job both plain clothed and open carry in uniform. Going to or from the work site in full uniform is no problem other then applicable carry laws that apply to any civilian. The big no no of course is impersonating an officer. If you ever are in uniform caught up in an off duty off property issue it is a good idea to clearly state you are an off duty private security person, do not say officer. The person you are having a problem with may try and find any avenue to retaliate. To have someone arrested for trespassing you are required to warn him or her one time. If the warned person comes back it is not a must however, Metro likes something written such as time and date and name of the person warned. Always get a description this will work if you cannot get their name. Metro will take your word of the warning however, will question how you know for sure he was warned. I believe a do-not-trespass sign will work for the first warning you will want to research the posting requirements and if a sign is a sufficient warning. I have a cheap 10meg camera it takes great pictures and I make a few quick notes with the picture of the warned person. If they come back before I get the pictures down loaded, I can show the image on the camera. If I get it down loaded, I keep a file with the notes. Print it out and have it for the next event. The camera has turned out to be the best tool.

    No law against having handcuffs. However to legally detain someone I believe you will have to do a citizens arrest. I believe citizens arrest allows you to use a cretin level of force to detain limiting it to only necessary force needed to detain. This is another area where you will want to research the laws. For us we have a full time trained security force and Metro stationed at the events. Most of the time if we ask a person to stop they will, as we call for uniformed security or Metro, if they decided to leave we observe and when possible follow and update their location. A different issue than you are talking about. We have lots of help a few minutes away as for the so-called big place you are talking about you may be on your own for some time. The decision to detain or not to detain should depend on which one allows you to go home after the shift unharmed.

    I see some say you need a sheriff card, we were not required to have one. I am pretty sure the sheriffs card is only needed when working in a facility with a casino.
    Last edited by 28kfps; 06-28-2010 at 12:50 AM.

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    that's kinda the ballpark i was looking for. its not as big a place as i thought. kind of an open courtyard area. as for security lead. my brother and his business partner will be the highest level authority (owners) and they aren't hiring a security company. They just brought up the idea of me being there at night in "official" attire since i already own a "self defense" item and im willing to be there and know the laws. so i wont be under any authority and i will have full permission from the owners to carry and dress accordingly. The only further reading i should see myself doing is for citizens arrest. They will have posted tress signs and im guessing my verbal warning would be 2nd. And depending on the situation will have to go by feel.

    i just want to make sure that even with owners permission, that i wont be breaking laws by having cuffs, badges, and shirts.


    thanks

  6. #6
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    In nevada, a private person may place someone under arrest in accordance with the following statutes:

    NRS 171.126 Arrest by private person. A private person may arrest another:
    1. For a public offense committed or attempted in the person’s presence.
    2. When the person arrested has committed a felony, although not in the person’s presence.
    3. When a felony has been in fact committed, and the private person has reasonable cause for believing the person arrested to have committed it.
    (Added to NRS by 1967, 1402)
    and

    NRS 171.132 Person making arrest may summon assistance. Any person making an arrest may orally summon as many persons as the person making the arrest deems necessary to aid him or her therein.
    (Added to NRS by 1967, 1402)
    and

    NRS 171.138 Breaking open door or window: Making arrest. To make an arrest, a private person, if the offense is a felony, and in all cases a peace officer, may break open a door or window of the house, structure or other place of concealment in which the person to be arrested is, or in which there is reasonable grounds for believing the person to be, after having demanded admittance and explained the purpose for which admittance is desired.
    (Added to NRS by 1967, 1402; A 1983, 244)

    NRS 171.142 Breaking open door or window: Upon detention after making arrest. Any person who has entered a house, structure or other place of concealment to make an arrest may break open a door or window if that is necessary to liberate himself or herself. An officer may do the same to liberate a person who, acting in the officer’s aid, entered to make an arrest and is detained inside.
    (Added to NRS by 1967, 1402; A 1983, 244)

    NRS 171.144 Breaking open door or window: Retaking person arrested. To retake a person arrested who has escaped or been rescued, the person pursuing may break open an outer or inner door or window of a dwelling house, structure or other place of concealment, if, after notice of his or her intention, the person pursuing is refused admittance.
    (Added to NRS by 1967, 1402)
    and most importantly

    NRS 171.1455 Use of deadly force to effect arrest: Limitations. If necessary to prevent escape, an officer may, after giving a warning, if feasible, use deadly force to effect the arrest of a person only if there is probable cause to believe that the person:
    1. Has committed a felony which involves the infliction or threat of serious bodily harm or the use of deadly force; or
    2. Poses a threat of serious bodily harm to the officer or to others.
    (Added to NRS by 1993, 931)
    And don't forget this...

    NRS 171.146 Weapon may be taken from person arrested. Any person making an arrest may take from the person arrested all dangerous and offensive weapons which the person arrested may have about his or her person.
    (Added to NRS by 1967, 1402)
    Because handcuffs are not restricted only to agents of Law Enforcement, a private person should be permitted to use them but only IAW the same SOP and Statutes that defines when a LEO may use them. IANAL, so if you ever think about placing someone under arrest you better have 100% certainty that you know WTF you're doing or you will wind up under arrest yourself.
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    i understand. most the situationsi will be put in being the kind of place it is...will be mainly tresspassing and vandalising. which i would or SHOULDNT need any kind of force for tresspassing but a verbal threat to call police. But would vand. be means for citz. arrest?

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    Security guards in nevada fall under NRS 648 wich covers PI's process servers,bounty huntersand repos

    NRS 648.060 License or registration required; employment of other persons by licensee.

    NRS 648.061 Exemption from required licensure as polygraphic examiner or intern.

    NRS 648.063 Single act for which license is required is violation.

    NRS 648.065 Licensing of persons engaged in various occupations on July 1, 1967.

    NRS 648.070 Licensing: Application; fee; reexamination.

    NRS 648.075 Licensing: Incomplete application; period of validity of application; summary denial of invalid application; burden of proof; waiver of claim for damages resulting from application.

    NRS 648.080 Licensing: Contents of application.

    NRS 648.085 Payment of child support: Submission of certain information by applicant; grounds for denial of license or registration; duty of Board. [Effective until the date of the repeal of the federal law requiring each state to establish procedures for withholding, suspending and restricting the professional, occupational and recreational licenses for child support arrearages and for noncompliance with certain processes relating to paternity or child support proceedings.]

    NRS 648.085 Payment of child support: Submission of certain information by applicant; grounds for denial of license or registration; duty of Board. [Effective on the date of the repeal of the federal law requiring each state to establish procedures for withholding, suspending and restricting the professional, occupational and recreational licenses for child support arrearages and for noncompliance with certain processes relating to paternity or child support proceedings and expires by limitation 2 years after that date.]

    NRS 648.100 Licensing: Examinations; investigation of applicants; grounds for refusing to grant.

    NRS 648.110 Licensing: Qualifications of applicants; issuance.

    NRS 648.115 Licensing: Person licensed in another state.

    NRS 648.120 Licensing: Fees; license held in abeyance.

    NRS 648.135 Licensing: Maintenance of insurance or acting as self-insurer; minimum limits of liability; proof.

    NRS 648.140 Licensing: Rights of licensees; local ordinances; registered employees.

    NRS 648.142 Licensing: Form, contents and posting of license; pocket cards; change of address; license not assignable.

    NRS 648.144 Licensing: Expiration of licenses and pocket cards; renewals.

    NRS 648.146 Licensing: Forfeiture of license; reinstatement; fee.

    NRS 648.148 Licensing: Address of principal place of business to be filed with Board; advertising.

    NRS 648.149 Licensing: Branch offices; fee.

    NRS 648.1493 Registration: Requirements; application; qualifications; pocket cards; expiration; renewal; appeal of denial of registration; regulations.

    NRS 648.1495 Registration: Provisional registration authorized in county whose population is 100,000 or more; expiration.

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    so i DO need a permit or license? what if they arent really a "corporation" that owns the lot? and what if they dont "hire" me as a "security guard"

    what if i just have the owners permission to be on premises while exercising my 2A? And if im not on payroll as a security guard

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    the way i read the nrs. it goes for if i were to work for a company like SOA or top flight security.

    but if im just a friend of the owner walking around his lot with my gun holstered and a shirt that says security on it....

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    Do your brother or his friend have a lawyer who helped them set up their business? I mean, you (or your bro) might just have to pay for real answers. Maybe cheaper in the long run. Friend of the owner might go a long way, but if you're being paid, it's a job, no?

    Can you picture Metro rolling up on you at 3am, your shirt says security and you're carrying - but you have no sheriff's card or whatever license... it can be handcuffs time now? :?

    One other thing on the sheriffs card thing - I think there are different ones for "unarmed security" and "armed security" so if you end up having to go that way, be sure and get the right one ...

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    not sure if they used lawyers for the business. im meeting with them on Wednesday so ill see what they have in mind....


    what if im not being paid???

  13. #13
    28kfps
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    Again, I am not an expert however; I do part time plain clothes security on a large property for 6 years. We were not required to do any of the NRS 648. We had to fill out necessary employment paper work and know the facility rules and training. Our training and authority is only good on the property. The NRS 648 license person gives them certain authority in public and on many different properties. Repo, bounty hunters, PIs and some security guards with the license, the authority follows them to the next location. Bouncer and security guards at clubs,Tomas and Mac center, Foot Ball gamesare are other examples of security persons who only have authority on the property of their employee. For some the instructions is, you are a big guy here put this security shirt on.
    Last edited by 28kfps; 06-28-2010 at 12:43 AM.

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    that's kind of what i was thinking. all of the nrs codes were for corporation security companies. ill talk to a lawyer to make sure. but i shouldn't see any paperwork problems being ill be on private property with owners permission the whole time. and me as a civilian knows the deadly force and citz arrest laws. and ive got good judgment.

    i dont see any reason i would need any authority off the property. my job is to keep people out at night and prevent others from doing what our guys have done (art related)

    thanks for the responses

  15. #15
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    Not sure but I believe if you are being paid to provide "security services" and it can be proven that you are being paid, you must have the proper licencing. I believe that companies that provide security services must be bonded as well.

    Now if it can be proven that you where hired to do maintenance work and that your primary responsibility is to do that work, there is no reason your employer can't permit you to be armed while on the job. It boils sown to what your primary job responsibilities are. If you are in plain clothes and armed it may be difficult to prove that your acting as a security guard, but if you are wearing a gun belt with a firearm, handcuffs, magazines, baton, pepper spray, and all manner of implements and also have a security logo or badge, it's going to be hard to make a case that security is not your primary function.
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    If you are a directly associated with the location (owner, employee, resident, etc), you don't need a license to perform security duties -- otherwise a clerk couldn't detain a shoplifter or your neighbor couldn't hold a burglar he catches coming out of your house.

    The laws apply to employees of companies which are hired to provide security services.



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    DVC wrote:
    If you are a directly associated with the location (owner, employee, resident, etc), you don't need a license to perform security duties -- otherwise a clerk couldn't detain a shoplifter or your neighbor couldn't hold a burglar he catches coming out of your house.

    The laws apply to employees of companies which are hired to provide security services.

    that's the way i interpreted the NRS. so being that im related to one of and have direct permission from the other business owners. i wouldn't need any licensing?

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    Have them hire you as a clerk. Take your gun to work. Don't call yourself "security" and nobody can have any question about it.

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    VegasGlocKid wrote:
    DVC wrote:
    If you are a directly associated with the location (owner, employee, resident, etc), you don't need a license to perform security duties -- otherwise a clerk couldn't detain a shoplifter or your neighbor couldn't hold a burglar he catches coming out of your house.

    The laws apply to employees of companies which are hired to provide security services.

    that's the way i interpreted the NRS. so being that im related to one of and have direct permission from the other business owners. i wouldn't need any licensing?
    no the county wants there work card money there might also be a county ordniance on it i did see a article in the sun about them wanting to get rid of all work cards but child care and security when i worked casino security both armed and unarmed i was told it was law I had to have a work card and keep it on me while working, also the business will have to have libailty insurance to cover them for anything involving the firearm or they will have to pay any claims out of pocket and i think having a lic to work as secutiy might be a pre req to getting the covrage also the covrage price is high thats why most casino security do not carry because of the premiums and the fact there are a lot of people around and the chances of injured innocents on a lawful use of a firearm are high

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    Nevada carrier wrote:
    Not sure but I believe if you are being paid to provide "security services" and it can be proven that you are being paid, you must have the proper licencing. I believe that companies that provide security services must be bonded as well.

    Now if it can be proven that you where hired to do maintenance work and that your primary responsibility is to do that work, there is no reason your employer can't permit you to be armed while on the job. It boils sown to what your primary job responsibilities are. If you are in plain clothes and armed it may be difficult to prove that your acting as a security guard, but if you are wearing a gun belt with a firearm, handcuffs, magazines, baton, pepper spray, and all manner of implements and also have a security logo or badge, it's going to be hard to make a case that security is not your primary function.
    Nope, dozens of others and I have been paid, I for 6 years for similar security work. Very large property, large corporation. It is not uncommon for us to end up with metro involved issues. Metro is not interested in any security license they never ask. However, will verify we are an employee of the property.

    Realistic if a business has 600 employees, as representatives of the property they have 600 security guards, only limited by company rules. They all have the same authority on private property as the employee in a security guard uniform. If an employee catches and stops a bad person on private property they work for, they have the same authority as the employee with the weapon and uniform. If the person in uniform decides to have a second job as an up for hired security guard working for different properties as a contracted service and not an employee, he will need to jump through the license hoops.

  21. #21
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    I work at Station Casino's (not security) I talked with a SG about them carrying He told me that it's their choice to carry, and they have to buy their own gun and don't receive any extra pay for carrying. I would think that is why most don't carry

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    Mudjack wrote:
    Security officers have no more power than the average citizen. Period.
    Neither do peace officers. What they have is AUTHORITY, so long as they are acting within its scope.

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