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    Simple question. If the govt doesn't "give" us our rights where do they come from then? The constitution does not give the govt it's power, it restricts it. As well the bill of rights does not endow us with our right to keep and bear arms, it restricts the government's ability to tamper with it. Thus as the document states: We hold these truths to be self evident. That all men are endowed BY THEIR CREATOR with the unalienable right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
    This site has been hijacked by leftists who attack opposition to further their own ends. Those who have never served this country and attack those who do are no longer worthy of my time or attention.

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    NRAMARINE wrote:
    Simple question. If the govt doesn't "give" us our rights where do they come from then? The constitution does not give the govt it's power, it restricts it. As well the bill of rights does not endow us with our right to keep and bear arms, it restricts the government's ability to tamper with it. Thus as the document states: We hold these truths to be self evident. That all men are endowed BY THEIR CREATOR with the unalienable right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
    Thomas Jefferson believed in the concept of Natural Rights as written by John Locke. John Locke said that Nature (as an entity, encompassing both the real world and whatever deity you worship) grants certain rights to each of us at birth, one of which is the right to defend one's own life, from which the 2nd Amendment is derived.

    The Constitution, or more accurately, the Bill of Rights, grants no rights. It merely lists some rights, and limits the authority of government to infringe upon them.

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    Hef wrote:
    NRAMARINE wrote:
    Simple question. If the govt doesn't "give" us our rights where do they come from then? The constitution does not give the govt it's power, it restricts it. As well the bill of rights does not endow us with our right to keep and bear arms, it restricts the government's ability to tamper with it. Thus as the document states: We hold these truths to be self evident. That all men are endowed BY THEIR CREATOR with the unalienable right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
    Thomas Jefferson believed in the concept of Natural Rights as written by John Locke. John Locke said that Nature (as an entity, encompassing both the real world and whatever deity you worship) grants certain rights to each of us at birth, one of which is the right to defend one's own life, from which the 2nd Amendment is derived.

    The Constitution, or more accurately, the Bill of Rights, grants no rights. It merely lists some rights, and limits the authority of government to infringe upon them.
    Well said, Hef. Thats exactly right.

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    Hef wrote:
    NRAMARINE wrote:
    Simple question. If the govt doesn't "give" us our rights where do they come from then? The constitution does not give the govt it's power, it restricts it. As well the bill of rights does not endow us with our right to keep and bear arms, it restricts the government's ability to tamper with it. Thus as the document states: We hold these truths to be self evident. That all men are endowed BY THEIR CREATOR with the unalienable right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
    Thomas Jefferson believed in the concept of Natural Rights as written by John Locke. John Locke said that Nature (as an entity, encompassing both the real world and whatever deity you worship) grants certain rights to each of us at birth, one of which is the right to defend one's own life, from which the 2nd Amendment is derived.

    The Constitution, or more accurately, the Bill of Rights, grants no rights. It merely lists some rights, and limits the authority of government to infringe upon them.
    I guess those so called "Natural Rights" did not apply to the slaves scumbags like Jefferson and his cronies OWNED...

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    estcrh wrote:
    I guess those so called "Natural Rights" did not apply to the slaves scumbags like Jefferson and his cronies OWNED...
    Do you insist on showing your ignorance to the entire world in every thread you troll in? And also, are you really this idiotic or attempting to be funny?

    To actually assert that Jefferson and his cronies (I'm guessing you're referring to the other founders) were a bunch of scum bags. All I can say is wow.

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    estcrh wrote:
    Hef wrote:
    NRAMARINE wrote:
    Simple question. If the govt doesn't "give" us our rights where do they come from then? The constitution does not give the govt it's power, it restricts it. As well the bill of rights does not endow us with our right to keep and bear arms, it restricts the government's ability to tamper with it. Thus as the document states: We hold these truths to be self evident. That all men are endowed BY THEIR CREATOR with the unalienable right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
    Thomas Jefferson believed in the concept of Natural Rights as written by John Locke. John Locke said that Nature (as an entity, encompassing both the real world and whatever deity you worship) grants certain rights to each of us at birth, one of which is the right to defend one's own life, from which the 2nd Amendment is derived.

    The Constitution, or more accurately, the Bill of Rights, grants no rights. It merely lists some rights, and limits the authority of government to infringe upon them.
    I guess those so called "Natural Rights" did not apply to the slaves scumbags like Jefferson and his cronies OWNED...
    Well, if you had an education level above the 6th grade, you might be aware that Jefferson was a lawyer who INHERITED the plantation and it's slaves, and while drafting the Declaration of Independence he had great difficulty with the issue of slavery and it's relationship to declaring freedom. He was greatly conflicted, because he saw the hypocrisy of declaring freedom for all while owning slaves. When the issue was discussed by the Continental Congress, it was decided that the issue of slavery would be addressed at a later date.

    Jefferson had a number of slaves who fled, and he made no attempt to retrieve them. While not declaring them free men (and women) outright, it is still an implied declaration of freedom.

    But I don't expect you to know that. Hell, you can't even use the term "nazi" correctly. I'm surprised you even know who Jefferson was.

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    Hef wrote:
    Well, if you had an education level above the 6th grade, you might be aware that Jefferson was a lawyer who INHERITED the plantation and it's slaves, and while drafting the Declaration of Independence he had great difficulty with the issue of slavery and it's relationship to declaring freedom. He was greatly conflicted, because he saw the hypocrisy of declaring freedom for all while owning slaves. When the issue was discussed by the Continental Congress, it was decided that the issue of slavery would be addressed at a later date.

    Jefferson had a number of slaves who fled, and he made no attempt to retrieve them. While not declaring them free men (and women) outright, it is still an implied declaration of freedom.

    But I don't expect you to know that. Hell, you can't even use the term "nazi" correctly. I'm surprised you even know who Jefferson was.
    Quite right Hef, and I might add that the subject of slavery was not addressed at the feuderal level because it is not within their Constitutionally approved powers. It is strictly a matter that the individual states must contend with, because ultimately it is up to the people of those states to determine what works for them.

    But there I go again talking about limited federal power in the strict confines of the original Constitution with all remaining duties relegated to the states; i.e. the "state's rights" argument. I doubt estcrh would be able to grasp those basic concepts.

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    mark edward marchiafava wrote:
    Jefferson? Isn't that the dude on Movin' on up on TV LAND ?
    Yep he was the dude that moved into a de-lux apartment over on the East Side if I remember correctly. :celebrate

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    mark edward marchiafava wrote:
    Jefferson? Isn't that the dude on Movin' on up on TV LAND ?
    Thomas Jefferson, George Jefferson.....it doesn't much matter with estcrh. They're all "nazi's" - even Weezy.

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    Hef wrote:
    NRAMARINE wrote:
    Simple question. If the govt doesn't "give" us our rights where do they come from then? The constitution does not give the govt it's power, it restricts it. As well the bill of rights does not endow us with our right to keep and bear arms, it restricts the government's ability to tamper with it. Thus as the document states: We hold these truths to be self evident. That all men are endowed BY THEIR CREATOR with the unalienable right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.


    The Constitution, or more accurately, the Bill of Rights, grants no rights. It merely lists some rights, and limits the authority of government to infringe upon them.
    I thought I said that. Perhaps I was not clear. My mistake.
    This site has been hijacked by leftists who attack opposition to further their own ends. Those who have never served this country and attack those who do are no longer worthy of my time or attention.

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    NRAMARINE wrote:
    Hef wrote:
    NRAMARINE wrote:
    Simple question. If the govt doesn't "give" us our rights where do they come from then? The constitution does not give the govt it's power, it restricts it. As well the bill of rights does not endow us with our right to keep and bear arms, it restricts the government's ability to tamper with it. Thus as the document states: We hold these truths to be self evident. That all men are endowed BY THEIR CREATOR with the unalienable right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.


    The Constitution, or more accurately, the Bill of Rights, grants no rights. It merely lists some rights, and limits the authority of government to infringe upon them.
    I thought I said that. Perhaps I was not clear. My mistake.
    I reiterated what you said with my last 2 sentences. You were clear.

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    LA Confederate wrote:
    Hef wrote:
    Well, if you had an education level above the 6th grade, you might be aware that Jefferson was a lawyer who INHERITED the plantation and it's slaves, and while drafting the Declaration of Independence he had great difficulty with the issue of slavery and it's relationship to declaring freedom. He was greatly conflicted, because he saw the hypocrisy of declaring freedom for all while owning slaves. When the issue was discussed by the Continental Congress, it was decided that the issue of slavery would be addressed at a later date.

    Jefferson had a number of slaves who fled, and he made no attempt to retrieve them. While not declaring them free men (and women) outright, it is still an implied declaration of freedom.

    But I don't expect you to know that. Hell, you can't even use the term "nazi" correctly. I'm surprised you even know who Jefferson was.
    Quite right Hef, and I might add that the subject of slavery was not addressed at the feuderal level because it is not within their Constitutionally approved powers. It is strictly a matter that the individual states must contend with, because ultimately it is up to the people of those states to determine what works for them.

    But there I go again talking about limited federal power in the strict confines of the original Constitution with all remaining duties relegated to the states; i.e. the "state's rights" argument. I doubt estcrh would be able to grasp those basic concepts.
    Well said both of you. It's a shame that some folks seem content with buying into the abridged, watered down, sterilized, politically correct version of American History taught in public schools and have no interest in learning the REAL history behind our country.

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    estcrh wrote:
    Hef wrote:
    NRAMARINE wrote:
    Simple question. If the govt doesn't "give" us our rights where do they come from then? The constitution does not give the govt it's power, it restricts it. As well the bill of rights does not endow us with our right to keep and bear arms, it restricts the government's ability to tamper with it. Thus as the document states: We hold these truths to be self evident. That all men are endowed BY THEIR CREATOR with the unalienable right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
    Thomas Jefferson believed in the concept of Natural Rights as written by John Locke. John Locke said that Nature (as an entity, encompassing both the real world and whatever deity you worship) grants certain rights to each of us at birth, one of which is the right to defend one's own life, from which the 2nd Amendment is derived.

    The Constitution, or more accurately, the Bill of Rights, grants no rights. It merely lists some rights, and limits the authority of government to infringe upon them.
    I guess those so called "Natural Rights" did not apply to the slaves scumbags like Jefferson and his cronies OWNED...
    Do you even open carry? If not why do you insist on trolling?
    This site has been hijacked by leftists who attack opposition to further their own ends. Those who have never served this country and attack those who do are no longer worthy of my time or attention.

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    NRAMARINE wrote:
    Simple question. If the govt doesn't "give" us our rights where do they come from then? The constitution does not give the govt it's power, it restricts it. As well the bill of rights does not endow us with our right to keep and bear arms, it restricts the government's ability to tamper with it. Thus as the document states: We hold these truths to be self evident. That all men are endowed BY THEIR CREATOR with the unalienable right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
    When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,

    [size=The Declaration of ][/size][size=Independence!!!][/size][size=][/size]



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    Actually, if you read the first 10 amendments, it doesn't read like a recitation of rights that men have; it's more of a list of directions to the Federal government telling them what to keep their dirty stinking paws off of. The First says to the government, Congress shall make no law... the Second says Shall not be infringed... the Fourth says ... shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue... the Fifth has a bunch of prohibitions, and so on. In short, the Bill of Rights is a serial warning to the government not to mess with our birthright of freedom in any way. The rights they are warning the Government about can be inferred from the topics found in each Amendment. And the Ninth and Tenth Amendments are extremely important; we have a bunch of powers and rights as human beings that were too numerous to catalog, so the Founding Fathers added the catch-all's at the end of the document, warning the Government that the other, unenumerated rights were equally off limits.

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    NRAMARINE wrote:
    estcrh wrote:
    Hef wrote:
    NRAMARINE wrote:
    Simple question. If the govt doesn't "give" us our rights where do they come from then? The constitution does not give the govt it's power, it restricts it. As well the bill of rights does not endow us with our right to keep and bear arms, it restricts the government's ability to tamper with it. Thus as the document states: We hold these truths to be self evident. That all men are endowed BY THEIR CREATOR with the unalienable right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
    Thomas Jefferson believed in the concept of Natural Rights as written by John Locke. John Locke said that Nature (as an entity, encompassing both the real world and whatever deity you worship) grants certain rights to each of us at birth, one of which is the right to defend one's own life, from which the 2nd Amendment is derived.

    The Constitution, or more accurately, the Bill of Rights, grants no rights. It merely lists some rights, and limits the authority of government to infringe upon them.
    I guess those so called "Natural Rights" did not apply to the slaves scumbags like Jefferson and his cronies OWNED...
    Do you even open carry? If not why do you insist on trolling?
    As far as I am concerned your the TROLL..you Jesus freak!!! Go preach some were else you pompous ass.

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    That's the way to prove your point. Emotional knee jerk reactions. Very effeminate characteristics I might add.

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    Oh and I forgot to thank you for proving me right in my opinion of you once again.

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    LA Confederate wrote:
    That's the way to prove your point. Emotional knee jerk reactions. Very effeminate characteristics I might add.
    Coming from someone who is AFRAID of a census taker...your wife sounds like she has more balls than you!!

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    I'd suggest verifying your assumptions before posting them for all the world to see. It not only makes you look like more of a tool, but it gives me and others ammo to use to ridicule you.

    Of course, you could attempt to have a reasoned debate using factual information on the subject that was originally posted here. Sorry, what was I thinking suggesting such a course of action to you. That's leaps and bounds above your grade level. They don't cover that until high school and judging from your posts, you've never set foot in one.


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    Well, since I an atheist, meaning I don't believe in a "Creator" I guess I fall into the catagory of those who believe in Natural Rights.
    President/ Founding Member
    Louisiana Open Carry Awareness League
    www.laopencarry.org

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    LA Confederate wrote:
    I'd suggest verifying your assumptions before posting them for all the world to see. It not only makes you look like more of a tool, but it gives me and others ammo to use to ridicule you.

    Of course, you could attempt to have a reasoned debate using factual information on the subject that was originally posted here. Sorry, what was I thinking suggesting such a course of action to you. That's leaps and bounds above your grade level. They don't cover that until high school and judging from your posts, you've never set foot in one.
    And all this coming from someone who thinks the Civil war was a "war of Northern aggression" why would I waste any time trying to have a "reasoned" debate with you? Its sort of funny that the very people who talk about states rights overlook the fact that it was the Southern states refusal to free their slaves that gave the hated Federal Government the power they have now. Yea..your great Southern values..what a load of crap...slavery..secession...lynchings...segregatio n...KKK...oh yea you have a lot to be PROUD of!!! No wonder you try to rewrite history.

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    Damn estcrh sounds like you have a hate southern race issue, my God man everytime you write some crap its something about southerners, or KKK or rebel this and that. If you hate the south so bad go back up north, but you won't be happy up there either, finally got a black president and you still not happy. Why not pack up and go back home to Africa, oh yea they the ones that sold ya'll to the french in the first place so your not welcome over there either. Hmm lets see, I know who came to this country from Croatia in my ancestors and yes they were slaves also, how many ancestors can you name that came from other side of the world. If you do know that would be the first for me. Man let the hate go, not all southern people hate you. oh and also Jesus loves you also even if you deny him.So take care down there in the Fischer projects in New ORleans.

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    estcrh wrote:
    And all this coming from someone who thinks the Civil war was a "war of Northern aggression" why would I waste any time trying to have a "reasoned" debate with you? Its sort of funny that the very people who talk about states rights overlook the fact that it was the Southern states refusal to free their slaves that gave the hated Federal Government the power they have now. Yea..your great Southern values..what a load of crap...slavery..secession...lynchings...segregatio n...KKK...oh yea you have a lot to be PROUD of!!! No wonder you try to rewrite history.
    Yep we sure do. None of those supposedly taboo things you stated were exclusive to the South. Your complete lack of knowledge on the subject is glaringly obvious in your last post. I could easily point out that not one single ship flying the flag of the CSA ever brought a solitary slave to this country, while one of our valued ships actually participated in the naval blockade of Africa to stop the slave trade. I could point out that every single slave that was brought to this continent came here on ships flying the good 'ol Stars and Stripes. I could point out that secession is a concept embraced by the Founding Fathers (you know those nazis you hate so much), a concept that is anathema to statists like yourself who drink the Kool Aid and embrace the all powerful nanny state. And not one single statement I've made is an alteration of historical fact. IT may not be palpable to your infantile little brain, but it's nonetheless accurate fact.

    Like others have said, since you hate it down here so much please do us all a favor and take your worthless self back to wherever it is you're from.

    By the way, your originality in stealing the exact same smileys that I used would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic, just like the rest of your bogus arguments.

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    mark edward marchiafava wrote:
    NEWS FLASH !
    lots of posters here don't OC, did you not know that?
    And you would know this how?

    Do you carry? I recall seeing a picture of you out and about and you had NO GUN on you.

    And yet you point a finger at others you have never seen? Hmmmm..

    Pertinent connection to the thread Mark. As usual, your value to a conversation is exactly zip.

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