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Thread: How can you enforce your right to a CPL?

  1. #1
    Regular Member SaintJacque's Avatar
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    I got my CPL last year. I OC sometimes and CC others, and I wanted to be able to carry loaded in my car so I got one. Shortly after that I got my sidearm (Springfield XD) and started carrying every day, without exception. Now, I've got a couple friends and my mother interested in carrying and they all want CPLs.

    Here's the question for you guys: what recourse do you have, or who do you talk to, if the state drags their feet in the issuing of yours CPL. Assume the applicant meets all the requirements, as I know both my friends and my mother do. Can you get some bureaucrats fined? Can/should you sue?

    The reason I ask is because my mother applied for her CPL last month. She was skeptical that they would issue it to her in a timely manner (bad experiences with bureaucrats in the past) and we are approaching the 30 day mark, so she called to check on the status with King County. They found her application and said it could take 6-8 weeks. But here's the real interesting part: the lady she spoke with said the computer showed that they received her app on the 26th of May and that it would be "complete" by the 26th of June. When asked if that meant it would be in the mail by the 26th of June the lady said that date doesn't really mean anything, that it could still take a few more weeks. This makes my wonder if they are marking the date in the computer to appear "on paper" as having complied with RCW 9.41.070. I digress.

    So, if they do run over their time and start jacking her around, anyone know where she can go? Anyone run into this problem before?

    Thanks guys!

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    I haven't heard of the state dragging thier feet here on CPL's. I have 3 family members and 1 friend that got their CPL's this year and all were processed and mailed in approx. 3 weeks.

    Now the RCW says they have 60 days to issue the license. So unfortunately you would have to wait another 30 days after the day they are saying it should be "completed" before they are against the code. As far as where to go if they aren't issueing, I would start by making a complaint at the office they are filing for thier CPL. From that point, I'm not sure, hopefully someone with more knowledge than myself will chime in.

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    Regular Member SaintJacque's Avatar
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    Jayd1981 wrote:
    I haven't heard of the state dragging thier feet here on CPL's. I have 3 family members and 1 friend that got their CPL's this year and all were processed and mailed in approx. 3 weeks.

    Now the RCW says they have 60 days to issue the license. So unfortunately you would have to wait another 30 days after the day they are saying it should be "completed" before they are against the code. As far as where to go if they aren't issueing, I would start by making a complaint at the office they are filing for thier CPL. From that point, I'm not sure, hopefully someone with more knowledge than myself will chime in.
    Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the 60 days is only for non-residents and people without a valid WA ID - from RCW 9.41.070:

    (1) The chief of police of a municipality or the sheriff of a county shall within thirty days after the filing of an application of any person, issue a license to such person to carry a pistol concealed on his or her person within this state for five years from date of issue, for the purposes of protection or while engaged in business, sport, or while traveling. However, if the applicant does not have a valid permanent Washington driver's license or Washington state identification card or has not been a resident of the state for the previous consecutive ninety days, the issuing authority shall have up to sixty days after the filing of the application to issue a license. The issuing authority shall not refuse to accept completed applications for concealed pistol licenses during regular business hours.
    My mother has been a WA resident for 20+ years and definitely has a valid WA drivers license.

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    I missed the 30 day part. Your right though. If they haven't issued it within 30 days from filing, I would start with a complaint there.

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    Regular Member j2l3's Avatar
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    If she doesn't receive her permit on the 30th day I would be very surprised. The law allows up to 30 days for resident permits and King County uses them all.

    If the permit doesn't arrive on the 30th day, I would call the supervisor of the department at the Sheriff's department. If that doesn't do you any good, call Sheriff Sue Rahr directly. She recommends people arm themselves, especially if they live in unincorporated King County. She readily admits her officers can't be there in time to help you.

    She IS on our side. A good Sheriff.
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    Regular Member SaintJacque's Avatar
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    j2l3 wrote:
    If she doesn't receive her permit on the 30th day I would be very surprised. The law allows up to 30 days for resident permits and King County uses them all.

    If the permit doesn't arrive on the 30th day, I would call the supervisor of the department at the Sheriff's department. If that doesn't do you any good, call Sheriff Sue Rahr directly. She recommends people arm themselves, especially if they live in unincorporated King County. She readily admits her officers can't be there in time to help you.

    She IS on our side. A good Sheriff.
    Wow, thanks for the advice! I had no idea about the Sheriff, but I'm really glad to hear it.

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    Regular Member j2l3's Avatar
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    She has made the statements about arming yourself publicly, mostly as a speaker to women's groups. She will be even more sympathetic as her budget shrinks and she has to lay off deputies.

    King County So is notorious for taking the full 30 days, but they are not known to exceed that unnecessarily.
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    Regular Member j2l3's Avatar
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    Also, keep in mind, anything you have to apply for isn't a right, it's a priveledge.

    Open carry is a right, as it is not licensed or applied for. Concealed is applied for and can be denied, though can only be denied for a limited list of reasons.
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    j2l3 wrote:
    She has made the statements about arming yourself publicly, mostly as a speaker to women's groups.Â* She will be even more sympathetic as her budget shrinks and she has to lay off deputies.

    King County So is notorious for taking the full 30 days, but they are not known to exceed that unnecessarily.
    You mean they are not know for exceeding that unlawfully. It is not allowable to exceed the 30 days. They are required to issue the license regardless if they have done the background check or not.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    Regular Member j2l3's Avatar
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    I said what I meant. You can say whatever you like. Isn't it great to be free?
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    Regular Member Aryk45XD's Avatar
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    30th day on the dot, and my CPL was in the mail.
    Your mother could always OC.

  12. #12
    Campaign Veteran Bookman's Avatar
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    I received mine on day 30 as well.
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    Tacoma, went through LESA (Law Enforcement Support Agency) who coordinates both TPD and Pierce County Sheriff's Dept. requests, and had my original in 11 days. Five years later, when it was time for renewal, it took 12.

    To the OP, you can't complain against something you haven't been a victim of.

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    Campaign Veteran ak56's Avatar
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    Bookman wrote:
    I received mine on day 30 as well.
    My wife and I both applied (at different times) through the Duvall-Carnation police department, but they have King County do the processing.

    My son-in-law got his through King County.

    Every one of them was received in the mail on day 30.
    No right is held more sacred, or is more carefully guarded, by the common law than the right of every individual to the possession and control of his own person, free from all restraint or interference of others, unless by clear and unquestionable authority of law. Union Pacific Rail Co. vs Botsford as quoted in Terry v Ohio.


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    Regular Member SaintJacque's Avatar
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    j2l3 wrote:
    Also, keep in mind, anything you have to apply for isn't a right, it's a priveledge.

    Open carry is a right, as it is not licensed or applied for. Concealed is applied for and can be denied, though can only be denied for a limited list of reasons.
    Will all respect, even the RCW disagrees with you.

    (1) The chief of police of a municipality or the sheriff of a county shall within thirty days after the filing of an application of any person, issue a license to such person to carry a pistol concealed on his or her person within this state for five years from date of issue, for the purposes of protection or while engaged in business, sport, or while traveling. However, if the applicant does not have a valid permanent Washington driver's license or Washington state identification card or has not been a resident of the state for the previous consecutive ninety days, the issuing authority shall have up to sixty days after the filing of the application to issue a license. The issuing authority shall not refuse to accept completed applications for concealed pistol licenses during regular business hours.

    The applicant's constitutional right to bear arms shall not be denied, unless: [list of offenses which will prevent you from getting a CPL]
    The wording here indicates that a denial of a CPL constitutes at least a partial denial of your right to keep and bear arms.



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    Regular Member SaintJacque's Avatar
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    Aryk45XD wrote:
    30th day on the dot, and my CPL was in the mail.
    Your mother could always OC.
    Of course, I'm just trying to make sure these bureaucrats do there jobs. And I don't think I could quite get her to OC yet.

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    Regular Member SaintJacque's Avatar
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    G20-IWB24/7 wrote:
    Tacoma, went through LESA (Law Enforcement Support Agency) who coordinates both TPD and Pierce County Sheriff's Dept. requests, and had my original in 11 days. Five years later, when it was time for renewal, it took 12.

    To the OP, you can't complain against something you haven't been a victim of.

    -G20
    I'm not complaining, I've just had so many bad experiences with lazy and incompetent government employees that my expectations are low. But I can damn well complain if it's my friends or family that become victims, I'll stand up for their rights as I would my own.

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    I went through Bellevue PD.

    Took 14 days
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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    This smells like a clerk that does not know her or his job, contact the Sheriff then if nothing is done start complaining about the bureaucrats.
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    Regular Member j2l3's Avatar
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    SaintJacque wrote:
    The applicant's constitutional right to bear arms shall not be denied, unless: [list of offenses which will prevent you from getting a CPL]
    The wording here indicates that a denial of a CPL constitutes at least a partial denial of your right to keep and bear arms.

    It's good you are researching this for yourself. Keep in mind, the denial of a CPL does not automatically mean you can't carry and therefore is not a defacto denial of right to carry.
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    j2l3 wrote:
    I said what I meant. You can say whatever you like. Isn't it great to be free?
    Well then when is it necessary to exceed 30 days?
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    what recourse do you have, or who do you talk to, if the state drags their feet in the issuing of yours CPL.
    First you have to know what you are talking about. The State doesn't issue CPLs. Counties and cities do.

  23. #23
    Regular Member SaintJacque's Avatar
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    deanf wrote:
    what recourse do you have, or who do you talk to, if the state drags their feet in the issuing of yours CPL.
    First you have to know what you are talking about. The State doesn't issue CPLs. Counties and cities do.
    Pardon me, you are correct. So, what do you do when ANY jurisdiction or government office delays or stonewalls your CPL?

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    Regular Member j2l3's Avatar
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    joeroket wrote:
    j2l3 wrote:
    I said what I meant. You can say whatever you like. Isn't it great to be free?
    Well then when is it necessary to exceed 30 days?
    The point is, I said what I meant, you said what you meant. Please attribute your meaning to your own posts, not mine.
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    Regular Member Tomas's Avatar
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    The interpretation I got from LESA years ago was that the county could delay issuing the CPL for 30 days, but if they did not complete their background check, or did not find anything within that 30 day window, state law required them to issue the license not later than day 30.

    They also suggested that if something that would have precluded issuing the license was found after the 30 day window, the license would be rescinded and the ex license holder would be notified...

    Made sense to me when the told me... :?
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