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So I live in a anti 2nd ammend. apt....

elixin77

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We-the-People wrote:


You are however talking with a Community College student who OC's an empty holster every day to school and refuses to tell them where the gun is.
Would be nice if the school Dreamer and I go to would let us do that without, in essence, getting expelled....

I sent an email to legal services, I'll let you guys know what they say.
 

elixin77

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This is the response I got from Student Legal Services:

[font="Times New Roman,serif"][font="Calibri,sans-serif"]Hi,*****

[/font]
[/font][font="Times New Roman,serif"][font="Calibri,sans-serif"]******* here, the attorney.

[/font]
[/font][font="Times New Roman,serif"][font="Calibri,sans-serif"]An apartment owner can have pretty much whatever restrictions they wish as long as they are in the lease, if you have signed the lease then you are bound by the rules. If they prohibit something being brought in then you must abide by that, again, if contained in the lease.

[/font]
[/font][font="Times New Roman,serif"][font="Calibri,sans-serif"]If you would like to meet and have me review your lease I would be happy to do so

[/font]
[/font][font="Times New Roman,serif"][font="Calibri,sans-serif"]******

Pretty cut and dry if you ask me.

I'm going to start writing a letter to the management of the apartment complex, and then i'll post it here for you guys to read.
]
[/font]
[/font]
 

aadvark

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Is the Prohibition of Firearms contained in the Lease..., if not..., then, there is no Prohibition.

I would contact The North Carolina General Assembly to ask them to write a Law barring The Apartment Complex from Incorporatingany such Restriction.

Either way..., personnally, I do not agree with the ability of a Apartment Complex to make any Restriction.
 

aadvark

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Is the Prohibition of Firearms contained in the Lease..., if not..., then, there is no Prohibition.

I would contact The North Carolina General Assembly to ask them to write a Law barring The Apartment Complex from Incorporatingany such Restriction.

Either way..., personnally, I do not agree with the ability of a Apartment Complex to make any Restriction.
 

aadvark

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Is the Prohibition of Firearms contained in the Lease..., if not..., then, there is no Prohibition.

I would contact The North Carolina General Assembly to ask them to write a Law barring The Apartment Complex from Incorporatingany such Restriction.

Either way..., personnally, I do not agree with the ability of a Apartment Complex to make any Restriction.
 

mekender

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elixin77 wrote:
We-the-People wrote:


You are however talking with a Community College student who OC's an empty holster every day to school and refuses to tell them where the gun is.
Would be nice if the school Dreamer and I go to would let us do that without, in essence, getting expelled....

I sent an email to legal services, I'll let you guys know what they say.
how exactly would they expel you for carrying a holster? Unless for some reason they have a specific prohibition on holsters... and even then you could easily challenge that as a restriction of your right to free speech.

Unless it is a private school that receives ZERO money from the federal government, which I would almost bet it isnt.
 

We-the-People

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They can expell you from most schools for "challenging authority" which is a very vague concept which they can deem has been broken when you won't answer their questions about "where is the gun". Doesn't mean they're right or that they would, but they COULD. Then it's a bitch to fight them in the courts and get back into school.

Here, state law specifically states that I can carry on school campuses as I have a concealed license (required for carry on schools, public buildings, etc). It also states that municipal corporations of the state (i.e. cities, counties, districts (school districts), etc) can NOT pass any civil or criminal ordinance regulating guns unless they are given EXPRESS authority to do so by our legislature.

BUT.... the school has a "no firearms" policy written in it's regulations and WILL expel a student. It's in violation of the law but they'll do it to protect their little fiefdoms. It is then up to the expelled student to come up with the money to fight them in court.....and we all know that they have plenty of our money to fight back with.

With the empty holster and no visible gun, they'd really be pushing the issue if you told them "none of your business" when asked where the gun was. If they were so bold as to detain and search you, well there are all kinds of civil rights violations as they have no reasonable articulable suspicion that you have committed a crime -- also many college security forces are NOT law enforcement and therefore have no protections from civil liability nor authorization to detain and search you.
 

elixin77

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The prohibition of firearms is under the "Rules and Regulations" section of the lease (rule 13 G of the lease IIRC). When I picked up the copy of the lease after the apt manager talked with me, I didn't see it on a quick skim (there was a title for illegal drugs, but not firearms). Who knows, maybe the SCOTUS ruling on Monday will take care of it (doubt it), but I'm going to wait until that gets passed down before I write a letter.

As for us being expelled because of a holster, Dreamer was telling me that the school PD can view that as, oh howd you put it.... something along the lines of causing a disruption, or something like that. Dreamer, I forget exactly what you told me, haha.
 

mekender

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Since carrying an empty holster is a form of protest, I really have to wonder if they would be willing to risk a 1st amendment lawsuit.
 

elixin77

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mekender wrote:
Since carrying an empty holster is a form of protest, I really have to wonder if they would be willing to risk a 1st amendment lawsuit.
Our campus has gotten to the point where we have a 1st amendment section on campus (in front of the library no less). If we wanted to hold a protest, we'd have to be there. Needless to say, the library isn't where the juiciest part of the campus is either.

There is an organization that holds a yearly empty holster protest during March or April, and it lasts for a week. During this week, participants would walk around campus with an empty holster in protest of the fact that they are disarmed. I participated during the week without knowing that I could have been expelled because the organization (Empty Holster Protest - they're on facebook) is not a recognized group, and therefore, we were unable to partake in the protest because of that. The group has a president (read: ambassador) for each school involved, and our school's ambassador actually resigned from her post because our administration is so hard to deal with.

Our administration is extremely anti-gun, and I believe this same group sectioned off only the front of the library as a 1st amendment location. Isn't that peachy?
 

Anthony_I_Am

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TheFreeman wrote:
I like dreamer's idea. That is the way to go. :celebrate

Then maybe they'll sit back and go: "Aw gee, there was about 20 people here with guns and no one got shot, robbed, or raped... maybe we need to re evaluate the rules."

Not in a million years. That's not the way their simple minds work. More like:

"We saved lots of lives today because 20 armed gunmen showed up and we did out part to prevent any tragedies."
 

Dreamer

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Elixin77,

Have no fear. I'll be exercising my 1st amendment rights with ANNOYING FREQUENCY and BRUTAL HONESTY this fall. I've currently got the letterpresses rolling on a fly-poster project with the theme of Free Speech.

And I'll be doing handouts and posters for the 2A as well.

Either I will be thrown out of school this semester, or we'll get things changed...

I've got the full support of an instructor for this project. I think I may be able to get him to sign on as a sponsor for a campus group of SCCC. I f I can, I'm going to volunteer for the "leadership" position.

And if I can't get a sponsor, or we can't get official recognition, then we'll just have a "rogue" group that meets off-campus, and passes out flyers across the street from school property during big events like football games.

Voice like Lion--Movement like Panther...

Think outside the box. Liberty-minded people need to study the tactics and operations of successful social change movements from recent history, and adopt some of their tactics. And I've been doing EXACTLY that all summer. I've been delving DEEP into all sorts of protest movements, studying propaganda, and delving into Public Relations.

I've got a University Library card and I'm not afraid to use it...:celebrate

Do not worry, dear friend. I have a plan... ;)
 

mekender

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elixin77 wrote:
mekender wrote:
Since carrying an empty holster is a form of protest, I really have to wonder if they would be willing to risk a 1st amendment lawsuit.
Our campus has gotten to the point where we have a 1st amendment section on campus (in front of the library no less). If we wanted to hold a protest, we'd have to be there. Needless to say, the library isn't where the juiciest part of the campus is either.

There is an organization that holds a yearly empty holster protest during March or April, and it lasts for a week. During this week, participants would walk around campus with an empty holster in protest of the fact that they are disarmed. I participated during the week without knowing that I could have been expelled because the organization (Empty Holster Protest - they're on facebook) is not a recognized group, and therefore, we were unable to partake in the protest because of that. The group has a president (read: ambassador) for each school involved, and our school's ambassador actually resigned from her post because our administration is so hard to deal with.

Our administration is extremely anti-gun, and I believe this same group sectioned off only the front of the library as a 1st amendment location. Isn't that peachy?
Usually, for a university to prohibit speech, it must be disruptive, illegal, harassing or one of the other few exceptions that have been carved out of the 1st amendment. Wearing an empty holster would be just as protected as an "I hate obama" t-shirt. SCCC, GRNC and the SAF would have a field day with the lawsuit if they tossed someone out for an empty holster.

Besides, an empty holster is child's play for pissing off ninny liberals at universities. If you really want to make waves, get a shirt that says "Che was a mass murderer"
 

PavePusher

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elixin77 wrote:
This is the response I got from Student Legal Services:

[font="Times New Roman,serif"][font=Calibri,sans-serif]Hi,*****

[/font]
[/font][font="Times New Roman,serif"][font=Calibri,sans-serif]******* here, the attorney.

[/font]
[/font][font="Times New Roman,serif"][font=Calibri,sans-serif]An apartment owner can have pretty much whatever restrictions they wish as long as they are in the lease, if you have signed the lease then you are bound by the rules. If they prohibit something being brought in then you must abide by that, again, if contained in the lease.

[/font]
[/font][font="Times New Roman,serif"][font=Calibri,sans-serif]If you would like to meet and have me review your lease I would be happy to do so

[/font]
[/font][font="Times New Roman,serif"][font=Calibri,sans-serif]******

Pretty cut and dry if you ask me.

I'm going to start writing a letter to the management of the apartment complex, and then i'll post it here for you guys to read.
]
[/font]
[/font]
You need to ask for the specific legal code that allows them to do this. Going by the way this reply was worded (and the rapidity of the response), I have a nagging feeling they didn't bother to look it up... :uhoh:
 

mekender

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There isnt a specific law that allows it.

Gun owners are not a protected class against discrimination. Therefore they can pretty much make any restrictions that you agree to in the lease.
 

We-the-People

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I disaree with the "do just about anything" in the lease. There are renters rights laws and when you lease a property as your residence they are bound by those laws. There will be specific state regulations and that legal services letter should have posted what they were and whether or not they would help your case.

If you find out he's not a LICENSED TO PRACTICE attorney......report him.

As for teh empty holster and getting booted out of school..... just wearing the holster is not enough to get you booted (legally) but when you start doing as I do and saying "none of your business" to questions of where's the gun, then they try to make it "challenging authority".

No one from the school has pushed it very far yet but I have been "tested". One of the private security guards wanted my student ID....OFF CAMPUS (about 3 feet) and I said NOPE. Then he threatened to call a "community service officer" which is just a civillian that volunteers to help the PD with non enforcement stuff. Told him they still wouldn't get my ID because they have no more authority than him. Then he says he can call the cops and have me arrested for loitering..... told him NOPE, no such statute in this city and it's not loitering when you have legitimate business in the area and are standing next to a bench provided for hanging out. He wasn't a happy camper.

Now they just say "you probably have the damn gun in your bag" and I say "who knows" or "No comment" or something else that says "go ahead, make my day". heeheheheh
 

elixin77

Regular Member
Joined
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Messages
591
Location
Greenville, NC, ,
imported post

Dreamer wrote:
Elixin77,

Have no fear. I'll be exercising my 1st amendment rights with ANNOYING FREQUENCY and BRUTAL HONESTY this fall. I've currently got the letterpresses rolling on a fly-poster project with the theme of Free Speech.

And I'll be doing handouts and posters for the 2A as well.

Either I will be thrown out of school this semester, or we'll get things changed...

I've got the full support of an instructor for this project. I think I may be able to get him to sign on as a sponsor for a campus group of SCCC. I f I can, I'm going to volunteer for the "leadership" position.

And if I can't get a sponsor, or we can't get official recognition, then we'll just have a "rogue" group that meets off-campus, and passes out flyers across the street from school property during big events like football games.

Voice like Lion--Movement like Panther...

Think outside the box. Liberty-minded people need to study the tactics and operations of successful social change movements from recent history, and adopt some of their tactics. And I've been doing EXACTLY that all summer. I've been delving DEEP into all sorts of protest movements, studying propaganda, and delving into Public Relations.

I've got a University Library card and I'm not afraid to use it...:celebrate

Do not worry, dear friend. I have a plan... ;)
As I've said before, just give me a bundle, and I'll hand some out.

I disaree with the "do just about anything" in the lease. There are renters rights laws and when you lease a property as your residence they are bound by those laws. There will be specific state regulations and that legal services letter should have posted what they were and whether or not they would help your case.

I don't like it either. But theres some rules that are lost in translation being that we are ~3000 miles apart from each other, apparently renter's rights are one of them.

As for teh empty holster and getting booted out of school..... just wearing the holster is not enough to get you booted (legally) but when you start doing as I do and saying "none of your business" to questions of where's the gun, then they try to make it "challenging authority".

I know the captain of the school PD, so I'll see if I can get a meeting with him sometime to sit down and talk with him about wearing an empty holster. With all the people wearing their phone on their belt in a holster, and my holster being made out of nylon, they look similar at a distance. Once you get up close and notice its empty, then people ask questions about it.

As for apartments, I have found an apartment that (in an email) said flat out that:
You are welcome to have fire arms.

I still have to check out the apartments (Reedy Branch on 10th), but on the outside they look OK. Maybe a bit small on the inside (725 sq f), but since its just me and a cat, I'm not too worried about space. Torn between this place and the Gables on Brownlea, but this is before I have checked out Reedy Branch.
 

elixin77

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[font="Times New Roman,serif"][font="Calibri,sans-serif"]Absolutely, check out North Carolina General Statute (NCGS) 42 (the residential rental agreements act)---- they can contract for anything that is not barred by law---

[/font]
[/font][font="Times New Roman,serif"][font="Calibri,sans-serif"]So, a Landlord retains ownership of the property and can prevent you from bringing dogs (for example) to the premises normally in the contract by reference to by laws BUT they could not, again for example, bar you from say getting out of lease if premises were not habitable. Landlords own the property and have wide latitude BUT they must have things in lease or refer to bylaws or regulations in lease---cannot change requirements at mid point without some authority---so if there is nothing in lease (in our example) about pets and the lease does not say resident is bound by by-laws then 6 months in they could not bar you from having a dog by arbitrary fiat!

[/font]
[/font][font="Times New Roman,serif"][font="Calibri,sans-serif"]*****[/font][/font]
[font="Times New Roman,serif"][font="Calibri,sans-serif"]

This is the email I got back from him. I'm curious about the whole "anything that is not barred by law," so I have another line of communication with him on that issue. I'll keep posted.
[/font]
[/font]
 
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