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Are we Utopian?

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deanf

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Are we Utopian?

The hard-core leftist is a utopist. The elimination of all risk is his goal. The risks of poor health, poverty, injury, social defects, violence, and general insolence are put on his list for total mitigation. Of course we know his goal is unattainable, but still he tries.

Are we not the same in some regard? I must be able to carry my gun on all private property. I must be able to carry my gun at the beach while wearing only swim shorts. I must have my gun within arm’s reach at all times no matter the activity. These are concepts that have been pushed on this and other boards, in the form of either questions or statements. The unstated goal seems to be the uptopia of having lethal force available at all times to repel attack.

Isn’t our (mostly) unrecognized quest for an idyllic state of affairs as unrealistic as the quest of the hard-core leftist?
 
GreatWhiteLlama

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"I must be able to carry my gun on all private property."
This has been brought up but I believe the general consensus is that private property rights should trump all (at least with the libertarian's amongst us)

"I must be able to carry my gun at the beach while wearing only swim shorts."
Well, there is a rumor that you once concealed your BUG while wearing Speedos... :p

"I must have my gun within arm’s reach at all times no matter the activity."
Item 1 refutes this claim, however I believe it should be available in any location you may be 'required' to be.

Edit: Stupid spell check... :lol:
 
Metalhead47

Metalhead47

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GreatWhiteLlama wrote:
"I must be able to carry my gun on all private property."
This has been brought up but I believe the general consensus is that private property rights should trump all (at least with the libertarian's amongst us)

"I must be able to carry my gun at the beach while wearing only swim shorts."
Well, there is a rumor that you once concealed your BUG while wearing Speedos... :p

"I must have my gun within arm’s reach at all times no matter the activity."
Item 1 refutes this claim, however I believe it should be available in any location you may be 'required' to be.

Edit: Stupid spell check... :lol:
Click to expand...
About that first part, I'd say it's more like a 50-50 split between "private property rights trump all" and "private property open to the public is not quite private" :p

To Dean, I don't think Utopian is quite the right word. Just the fact that we acknowledge we may need a gun means we're not utopiists, since Utopias seem aimed at perfection.

Even if we look at "our" ideal as a qasi-utopia; the leftist utopian ideal cannot and will not ever exist. People will never just cease to be violent or greedy (at least not in this lifetime). However, "our" ideal could be brought about by a simple collapse of government where each small isolated community becomes just that sort of quasi-utopia/dystopia where everyone just has a gun, all the time, and no one thinks it odd.

Myself, I don't carry a gun around the house, unless I just haven't taken it off yet. But then again, I live in a fairly rural area and no one ever comes to my door unexpected, and I always have a couple of firearms at the ready and easily accessible. Not because of any "they're coming!" paranoia, it's just more convenient. I think the "take my gun swimming" crowd is a tiny minority, even with the rowdy bunch of right-wing nutjobs we have here :lol:
 
Bob Warden

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I think both liberals and conservatives are "Utopian," in that both naively believe, in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, in the ultimate perfectibility of man.
 
K

Kildars

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Metalhead47 wrote:
GreatWhiteLlama wrote:
"I must be able to carry my gun on all private property."
This has been brought up but I believe the general consensus is that private property rights should trump all (at least with the libertarian's amongst us)

"I must be able to carry my gun at the beach while wearing only swim shorts."
Well, there is a rumor that you once concealed your BUG while wearing Speedos... :p

"I must have my gun within arm’s reach at all times no matter the activity."
Item 1 refutes this claim, however I believe it should be available in any location you may be 'required' to be.

Edit: Stupid spell check... :lol:
Click to expand...
About that first part, I'd say it's more like a 50-50 split between "private property rights trump all" and "private property open to the public is not quite private" :p
Click to expand...
Except it is...
 
Bob Warden

Bob Warden

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Metalhead47 wrote:
Bob Warden wrote:
I think both liberals and conservatives are "Utopian," in that both naively believe, in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, in the ultimate perfectibility of man.
Click to expand...
OK I'll bite.

Where do you get that idea?
Click to expand...
Bersa.380 said it nice and succinctly, above.
 
Metalhead47

Metalhead47

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Bob Warden wrote:
Metalhead47 wrote:
Bob Warden wrote:
I think both liberals and conservatives are "Utopian," in that both naively believe, in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, in the ultimate perfectibility of man.
Click to expand...
OK I'll bite.

Where do you get that idea?
Click to expand...
Bersa.380 said it nice and succinctly, above.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I don't follow. I fail to see how any belief that people are important equates to people being perfect, or where that expectation is in contemporary conservative ideals.
 
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daddy4count

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"In a perfect society (Utopia) laws are unnecessary, in an imperfect society laws are unenforceable."


We must fall somewhere in the middle... regardless of which side of the political fence we ride.
 
gogodawgs

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Bob Warden wrote:
I think both liberals and conservatives are "Utopian," in that both naively believe, in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, in the ultimate perfectibility of man.
Click to expand...

Perhaps that is why I am neither. I tend to be more a man of reason. Human nature is an imperfect trait. It cannot be corrected 100%, there always will be those who are outside the norms of society. There will always be evil.

I have referred to myself as an 18th Century Classical Liberal.
 
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daddy4count

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I have referred to myself as an 18th Century Classical Liberal
Click to expand...
While my political views tend to align closest with the Constitutionalist party I have always referred to myself as a Republicrat...

But as a wise cartoon once said, "Every elections is between a Giant Douche and a Turd Sandwich..."
 
Beretta92FSLady

Beretta92FSLady

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I always felt like utopia would be as many firearms as I want to purchase and as much ammo and hours in the day to shoot as much as I want to shoot--that is heaven:D
 
Beretta92FSLady

Beretta92FSLady

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I dream of a day when I can reload as much ammo as I need to shoot as much as I want...I have a dream, that if it suites me to have one more rifle, or even two, that I have the immidiate funds to purchase...I have a dream, that I have my own personal range for me to shoot at whenever I please...I have a dream, that all public schools offer N.R.A. gun safety certification for all of America's youth:cry:
 
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