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Thread: New to Colorado, have a few questions.

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    Hello again and thank you in advance for any help.

    I have been researching the local and state laws extensively in regards to the "laws" pertaining to OC. I have not been able to answer a couple of my questions and I'm hoping the friendly people here can help me out.

    I have a valid Michigan CPL and I have not yet changed my address. I have not yet applied for my Colorado CHP. I'm also wondering if I might be able to file a renewal in Colorado rather then a completely new application (probably not).


    I've been trying to determine whether or not I can OC without a CHP into places that sell alcohol.
    a. Places that sell but do not serve.
    b. Places the sell and serve open for consumption.


    Should I be concerned about the "Disorderly Conduct" statute? What are the recommendations if I am confronted/charged with this?

    18-9-106. Disorderly conduct. (1) A person commits disorderly conduct if he or she intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly:
    (f) Not being a peace officer, displays a deadly weapon, displays any article used or fashioned in a manner to cause a person to reasonably believe that the article is a deadly weapon, or represents verbally or otherwise that he or she is armed with a deadly weapon in a public place in a manner calculated to alarm.




    These questions may seem a bit naive, but I simply want to be as fluent in Colorado as I was in Michigan when it comes to understanding OC "laws". What are "chambers"? What are "galleries"?

    If I interpret this correctly, I cannot carry into any office/building that deals with local/state government or political association. Does this mean I cannot carry into a police station or dept. of motor vehicles? (or sec. of state, whichever is here)
    18-12-105. Unlawfully carrying a concealed weapon - unlawful possession of weapons.
    (c) Without legal authority, carries, brings, or has in such person's possession a firearm or any explosive, incendiary, or other dangerous device on the property of or within any building in which the chambers, galleries, or offices of the general assembly, or either house thereof, are located, or in which a legislative hearing or meeting is being or is to be conducted, or in which the official office of any member, officer, or employee of the general assembly is located.



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    You may Open Carry literally anywhere with the exception of;

    Federal buildings (post office etc.)

    Properly restricted by a sign at every public entrance (no specification for size, shape, wordage of sign)

    Denver City/County (en whole- no signage needed)


    Further more- We will honor your Michigan concealed permit so long as you are legally still a resident of Michigan. From what I gather- you are here now but have not legally established residency. You have 30 days to establish residency in Colorado or you are still a Michigan resident. If you are ever stopped by police and you are Over your 30 days- be careful with your thoughts and words.

    Whether or not there is alcohol being served and consumed has no effect on your ability to carry openly or concealed. Being intoxicated on alcohol or anything else is completely unlawful when carrying a handgun- this means not even one beer- there is no lawful "limit" on the level of intoxication.

    You may carry into any government building outside of the above mentioned Federal buildings. There are a few examples to give- Castle Rock has public buildings properly posted with signs. When you get out to the mountain communities- you will most likely not find any signage but you do need to be on the look out for such at all times.

    **Concealed Carry has a different set of restrictions.



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    Hey ethernetweb do you mind if i ask what part of grand county you're in?

    Moses

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    Regular Member entartet17's Avatar
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    cscitney87 wrote:
    You may Open Carry literally anywhere with the exception of;

    Federal buildings (post office etc.)

    Properly restricted by a sign at every public entrance (no specification for size, shape, wordage of sign)

    Denver City/County (en whole- no signage needed)
    Dont forget schools
    "There are those who still think they are holding the pass against a revolution that may be coming up the road. But they are gazing in the wrong direction. The revolution is behind them. It went by in the Night of Depression, singing songs of freedom" -- Garet Garrett, The Revolution Was (1938)

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    cscitney87 wrote:

    Whether or not there is alcohol being served and consumed has no effect on your ability to carry openly or concealed.* Being intoxicated on alcohol or anything else is completely unlawful when carrying a handgun- this means not even one beer- there is no lawful "limit" on the level of intoxication.
    I disagree with this -- the law specifies that you cannot possess a firearm while intoxicated. There is no definition in the law of "intoxicated", and there doesn't seem to be case law. I don't believe that anyone would consider one beer to be intoxicating. It seems reasonable to believe that the .04/.08 BAC DWI/DUI limits would be applicable.

    As entartet said, you can't carry on school property (with a CCW permit you can have a gun in a compartment in your locked vehicle). WIth no permit, federal law applies and you can't carry within 1000 feet (there doesn't seem to be any local enforcement, though).

    18-12-105 only applies to the state legislature -- it was passed in response to a shooting inside the capitol building.

    You can't carry a loaded firearm on public transportation (unless you have a CCW permit).

    You may want to read some older threads in the Colorado section about municipalities claiming the authority to prohibit open carry. I'm not going to get into that debate again.

    edit: You asked about disorderly conduct -- there doesn't seem to be application of this charge against open carriers, not that it's never happened.

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    Dynamite Rabbit wrote:
    cscitney87 wrote:

    Whether or not there is alcohol being served and consumed has no effect on your ability to carry openly or concealed. Being intoxicated on alcohol or anything else is completely unlawful when carrying a handgun- this means not even one beer- there is no lawful "limit" on the level of intoxication.
    I disagree with this -- the law specifies that you cannot possess a firearm while intoxicated. There is no definition in the law of "intoxicated", and there doesn't seem to be case law. I don't believe that anyone would consider one beer to be intoxicating. It seems reasonable to believe that the .04/.08 BAC DWI/DUI limits would be applicable.

    As entartet said, you can't carry on school property (with a CCW permit you can have a gun in a compartment in your locked vehicle). WIth no permit, federal law applies and you can't carry within 1000 feet (there doesn't seem to be any local enforcement, though).

    18-12-105 only applies to the state legislature -- it was passed in response to a shooting inside the capitol building.

    You can't carry a loaded firearm on public transportation (unless you have a CCW permit).

    You may want to read some older threads in the Colorado section about municipalities claiming the authority to prohibit open carry. I'm not going to get into that debate again.

    edit: You asked about disorderly conduct -- there doesn't seem to be application of this charge against open carriers, not that it's never happened.
    Couple of issues, here:

    1. Without case law, it's up to the judge to make a judgement (that's what case law is - a judge making a judgement)and a judge could rule that any measurable amount of alcohol in your blood is "intoxication" for the purposes of firearm laws.

    Lesson learned: Don't leave it up to some judge. Don't drink and carry.

    2. Under Colorado Law, the interior of one's vehicle is considered an extension of one's home. You do not need a CHP to conceal a firearm inside your vehicle. Having a firearm inside your vehicle is neither concealed carry nor open carry, any more than having a firearm in your home is considered carrying. It's "possession."
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Don't want to run the thread off the tracks, but arguing that the slightest amount of BAC = intoxicated is like saying open carry = disorderly conduct. A judge could certainly make those rulings, but I have a hard time believing they'd stand on appeal. I see it as a personal decision.

    Most OCers would probably say that drinking and open carrying presents a bad image to the public, and I'd agree. I just don't see the law saying you can't.

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    Thanks everybody for filling in what was missing. We have some great information here and I think all the bases have been covered.

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    Quote Originally Posted by luke.moses View Post
    Hey ethernetweb do you mind if i ask what part of grand county you're in?

    Moses
    Granby.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamite Rabbit View Post
    Don't want to run the thread off the tracks, but arguing that the slightest amount of BAC = intoxicated is like saying open carry = disorderly conduct. A judge could certainly make those rulings, but I have a hard time believing they'd stand on appeal. I see it as a personal decision.

    Most OCers would probably say that drinking and open carrying presents a bad image to the public, and I'd agree. I just don't see the law saying you can't.
    I wouldn't personally have any BAC while carrying. As someone said, bad image. Plus, not interested in any unwanted attention. Furthermore, I wouldn't carry into a bar for the simple fact of not trusting how a drunk audience would react.

    When I was in Michigan, without a concealed permit, I wouldn't be allowed to OC into an establishment that sold any alcoholic beverages, open or closed containers. I have not been able to determine whether this is a state or federal law, but I assume it must have been a Michigan state law since everyone here is saying it's OK to OC to say, a grocery store, corner store or even a liquor store?

    Also, I didn't see anyone address 18-12-105. Any information on this would be helpful as it seems a bit broad in the "laws".

    Thank you everyone for your assistance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ethernetweb View Post
    Granby.



    I wouldn't personally have any BAC while carrying. As someone said, bad image. Plus, not interested in any unwanted attention. Furthermore, I wouldn't carry into a bar for the simple fact of not trusting how a drunk audience would react.
    There's other places than bars to have a drink. I most generally don't drink while I'm carrying (I've had a beer with a meal once or twice, but that's about it), but more than once I've been at home and had a beer, then ended up leaving the house. I'm not at all impaired, but a breathalyzer would show alcohol in my system.

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    See post #5 regarding 8-12-105 -- it only applies to the state legislature (general assembly = state legislature).

    18-12-106 (d) states:

    (1) A person commits a class 2 misdemeanor if:

    (d) The person has in his or her possession a firearm while the person is under the influence of intoxicating liquor or of a controlled substance, as defined in section 12-22-303 (7), C.R.S. Possession of a permit issued under section 18-12-105.1, as it existed prior to its repeal, or possession of a permit or a temporary emergency permit issued pursuant to part 2 of this article is no defense to a violation of this subsection (1).

    This is the *only* statute regarding alcohol and firearms.
    Last edited by Dynamite Rabbit; 06-26-2010 at 11:43 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ethernetweb View Post
    Granby.




    When I was in Michigan, without a concealed permit, I wouldn't be allowed to OC into an establishment that sold any alcoholic beverages, open or closed containers. I have not been able to determine whether this is a state or federal law, but I assume it must have been a Michigan state law since everyone here is saying it's OK to OC to say, a grocery store, corner store or even a liquor store?
    It's state law, federal law doesn't mention it anywhere. Colorado gun laws, for the most part are much more relaxed than what Michigan's are. After living there for 8 years myself, I still find my self doing things that are legal in Colorado, but not legal in Michigan, such as throwing the shotgun, uncased, into the passenger seat when I'm going bird hunting. Legal in Colorado......new set of bracelets in MI.

    Once in awhile you'll bump into a Colorado gun law more restrictive than Michigans, (such as pre-emption not being as strong), but it's rare

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    Thanks for the answers & information.

    I have another question that I can't seem to locate the answer to in a search.

    Is there a good list of federal gun laws pertaining to carrying on one's person?

    I'm curious if it was a Michigan state law or federal law that prohibited the carrying of a firearm into a jail.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ethernetweb View Post
    Thanks for the answers & information.

    I have another question that I can't seem to locate the answer to in a search.

    Is there a good list of federal gun laws pertaining to carrying on one's person?

    I'm curious if it was a Michigan state law or federal law that prohibited the carrying of a firearm into a jail.
    The only thing federal law regulates is federal property (federal office buildings, post offices, etc.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingfish View Post
    The only thing federal law regulates is federal property (federal office buildings, post offices, etc.)
    Agreed, although the sterile areas of airports and the 1000' school zone are also restricted by federal law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamite Rabbit View Post
    Agreed, although the sterile areas of airports and the 1000' school zone are also restricted by federal law.
    I stand corrected sir.

    Also to note. With a CO permit the 1000' rule does not apply (and some may argue with any permit CO honors you are good as well.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingfish View Post
    I stand corrected sir.

    Also to note. With a CO permit the 1000' rule does not apply (and some may argue with any permit CO honors you are good as well.)
    All permits honored by CO have the same standing and regulations as the CO CCWs do. And in return, states that honor CO CCWs do so with regard to following their statutes and regulations. That is part and parcel of reciprocity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    All permits honored by CO have the same standing and regulations as the CO CCWs do. And in return, states that honor CO CCWs do so with regard to following their statutes and regulations. That is part and parcel of reciprocity.
    Keep in mind, the Federal GFSZA DOES NOT exempt other states permits from the GFSZA (aka 1,000ft restriction). The law states that the the permit or license must be issued by the state in which the school zone is located in order to be exempted from the school zone

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yooper View Post
    Keep in mind, the Federal GFSZA DOES NOT exempt other states permits from the GFSZA (aka 1,000ft restriction). The law states that the the permit or license must be issued by the state in which the school zone is located in order to be exempted from the school zone
    No worries. I have applied for my Colorado CHP. I'll be exempt from that soon enough. I've also already changed my address to CO, so I no longer have the ability to conceal.

    So far most of my encounters have been positive with OC. Two local police officers have already confirmed my right to open carry. Wonder how long it will be until my first MWG call.

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    " Wonder how long it will be until my first MWG call."

    Eh.. it really only happens once every few months and never ends terribly. There was a downtown Castle Rock... a Boulder incident.. Aurora one.. a few others but yeah you'll basically never have to deal with a MWAG call; it's rare.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamite Rabbit View Post
    Don't want to run the thread off the tracks, but arguing that the slightest amount of BAC = intoxicated is like saying open carry = disorderly conduct.
    No, that's apples and oranges.

    Apple: By law, when it comes to intoxication and firearms, the limit is not defined. This leaves it up to the judge.

    Orange: By law, when it comes to open carry here in Colorado, it is NOT disorderly conduct, and no judge here in this state has the authority to rule otherwise.

    A judge could certainly make those rulings, but I have a hard time believing they'd stand on appeal.
    True, judges can, and have ruled, ridiculously at times, and no, it wouldn't stand on appeal. There are a few nuts in the judiciary, as there are throughout any profession, but most of them are rational..

    Most OCers would probably say that drinking and open carrying presents a bad image to the public, and I'd agree. I just don't see the law saying you can't.
    I agree with you on both acconts, and the law doesn't prohibit you from OCing in a bar and having a beer. Given the state of affairs, where the anti's are looking for any and all justification to turn the screws tighter, however, I don't think that would be a rational thing to do.

    I have no problem having a bear or two at home, however, though if I had more than one I'd only handle my firearm if an actual situation arose (someone kicked down my door).
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Cool

    "I have no problem having a bear or two at home, however, though if I had more than one I'd only handle my firearm if an actual situation arose (someone kicked down my door). "

    Thank you Since9. You are always a powerful voice of reason around here.

    I know you guys out there like to drink. I'm a guy and have friends and family- we drink. I get it. The choice I have always ALWAYS presented myself with, from the beginning, was "Do I want to drink or am I going out later I will need my gun..." You just have to decide between going out; leaving your property.... or staying home. If you really want to kick back a beer or 2 at 3 in the afternoon.. You can't expect to walk out that door at 4 strapped with your loaded handgun. Wait a few hours- Science has literally figured this out already. You can calculate your BAC with your body weight and the amount of drink and what type of drink that is. You can actually figure out if you have 1 beer and wait 1 hour and drank 2 glasses of water in the mean time.. you will be sober enough to carry your handgun and drive a car. If you drank 2 beers and had a hot dog and some fries.. waited an hour.. well you have to do the math for yourself but you probably should wait Longer before driving or carrying a handgun.

    This is a great situation, like many others, to compare driving a motor vehicle to carrying a gun. Either way- you can end a life easily if you are not careful. Most of us decide not to drink and drive, period. This goes above and beyond just not driving drunk- we are saying we just won't drink at all if we are going to drive. Usually people who get their first DUI and learn their lesson decide to go this route. Same with firearms.. make that decision inside of you- in your heart of hearts. You can control it. You can control yourself. Decide to choose between drinking or carrying your loaded handgun. Remember- you can always have those few beers Later in the evening when you're in for the night.

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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    I have no problem having a bear or two at home, however, though if I had more than one I'd only handle my firearm if an actual situation arose (someone kicked down my door).
    This took me a while to catch up on the topic. I was just paging through and thought, "Someone has more than one frickin' BEAR at home and is not only OKAY with it, but are we back to testosterone junkie cowboys talking about taking on a frickin' BEAR with a handgun AGAIN???"

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    Quote Originally Posted by mahkagari View Post
    This took me a while to catch up on the topic. I was just paging through and thought, "Someone has more than one frickin' BEAR at home and is not only OKAY with it, but are we back to testosterone junkie cowboys talking about taking on a frickin' BEAR with a handgun AGAIN???"
    HEY!!!! What they do with their furry creatures in their own home is their business.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingfish View Post
    HEY!!!! What they do with their furry creatures in their own home is their business.
    Oh, it's THAT kind of bear! Got it. Wait, no. Now, I'm even more confused...

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