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Adopt a first timer??

paul@paul-fisher.com

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May 24, 2009
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4,049
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Chandler, AZ
Unfortunately, the state I live in, Florida, does not permit open carry. If it did, I would carry anywhere it was legal to do so. My question is: If a person is so scared to open carry for the first time, and needs someone to hold their hand to do so, what makes them think they would be willing and able to use the firearm, should the need arise? Is open carry just a means to look cool? If a person is evil enough, they really could care less if they see a gun. They will just be quicker to overpower you, or come at you when you are not looking. To me, even if you open carry, you still need to remain vigil of events taking place around you. Thoughts anyone?

I generally agree with you, however, there are a couple reasons I chose to pop my open carry cherry with a group.

1. WI has some wacky laws that basically say that if an uncased weapon is inside or touching a vehicle you are breaking the law. Just learning the proper dance to legally get the weapon out of the vehicle into your holster is interesting.
2. The publication that OC in WI has been legal for a long time is a fairly recent thing. I wanted to be with people well versed in the legalities so that if a discussion with a LEO were to occur, I wouldn't have to remember the fine points of the law.

In addition, it's just kinda cool to find people who are like minded to share stories with
 

holdcard

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Mar 3, 2010
Messages
12
Location
Lake Co.
Thanks for some clarity Paul

Not knowing the laws as applied in WI., I limited myself to the first timer thing. I have noticed that the laws governing vehicles makes it a risky business with regards to a firearm in a car. Can you direct me to the rules that cover this?
 

paul@paul-fisher.com

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Doug Huffman

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Jun 9, 2006
Messages
9,180
Location
Washington Island, across Death's Door, Wisconsin,
Can you direct me to the rules that cover this?

167.31 Safe use and transportation of firearms and bows.
(2) PROHIBITIONS; MOTORBOATS AND VEHICLES; HIGHWAYS AND ROADWAYS.
(b) Except as provided in sub. (4), no person may place, possess or transport a firearm, bow or crossbow in or on a vehicle, unless the firearm is unloaded and encased or unless the bow or crossbow is unstrung or is enclosed in a carrying case.
 

holdcard

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Mar 3, 2010
Messages
12
Location
Lake Co.
no OC in a car, boat, etc.?

Hi Paul, so the gist I get from this law is that you can OC, but when you are in a boat or car, you can not have it on your hip? Where is the logic in that? What a hassle. Do other OC states have similar rules? I happen to live in one of only seven states that does not permit OC.
 

bnhcomputing

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2007
Messages
1,709
Location
Wisconsin, USA
Unfortunately, the state I live in, Florida, does not permit open carry. If it did, I would carry anywhere it was legal to do so. My question is: If a person is so scared to open carry for the first time, and needs someone to hold their hand to do so, what makes them think they would be willing and able to use the firearm, should the need arise? Is open carry just a means to look cool? If a person is evil enough, they really could care less if they see a gun. They will just be quicker to overpower you, or come at you when you are not looking. To me, even if you open carry, you still need to remain vigil of events taking place around you. Thoughts anyone?

This page: http://www.wisconsincarry.org/legal.html covers the legal citations and case law regarding open carry in WI. Our biggest impediment is the gun free school zone statute. From time-to-time, we encounter a LEO who is not OC friendly, having a little guidance in advance isn't a bad thing. We have a pamphlet available here: http://www.wisconsincarry.org/pdf/OCpamphletR16.pdf

We encourage those who wish to carry to fully research the laws to avoid legal issues.
 

bnhcomputing

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Dec 13, 2007
Messages
1,709
Location
Wisconsin, USA
Hi Paul, so the gist I get from this law is that you can OC, but when you are in a boat or car, you can not have it on your hip? Where is the logic in that? What a hassle. Do other OC states have similar rules? I happen to live in one of only seven states that does not permit OC.

That depends on the state. In MN for example, if you have the carry permit, then the vehicle carry hoops of WI do not apply. Each state is different.
 

paul@paul-fisher.com

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May 24, 2009
Messages
4,049
Location
Chandler, AZ
Hi Paul, so the gist I get from this law is that you can OC, but when you are in a boat or car, you can not have it on your hip? Where is the logic in that? What a hassle. Do other OC states have similar rules? I happen to live in one of only seven states that does not permit OC.

To put a finer point on it, you have to have it in a case that is designed as a gun case which fully encloses the gun. In addition, it has to be unloaded. There is some debate what level of 'vehicle' this covers. Some interpret it as any vehicle which WI defines as 'self propelled' which includes bicycles. However, someone who was arrested twice for OC'ing in a school zone on a bicycle didn't get charged with vehicle carry, only the gun free school zone carry.

So, to follow the WI law, I need to 'brandish' my weapon well away from my vehicle, load it and then I rack the slide. I would think the sheeple that watch all this would be much more concerned that I am a bad guy than if I could just calmly get out of the car and walk away. :banghead:

Before anyone jump on me about my use of the word 'brandish', I do realize there is no legal definition of that word in WI.
 

Interceptor_Knight

Regular Member
Joined
May 18, 2007
Messages
2,851
Location
Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
There is some debate what level of 'vehicle' this covers. Some interpret it as any vehicle which WI defines as 'self propelled' which includes bicycles. .

There should be no debate to what the Statute reads. There really is no interpretation gray area. It is very clear.
What we know is that the DNR and local LEOs will enforce it to a different level. This is administrative enforcement policy. A DNR warden will more likely cite you for sitting on a hay wagon if the 4 wheels are still attached. The fact that an individual or multiple individuals did not get cited on a bicycle simply indicated that the Statute was not enforced to the letter.
 

Plankton

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Messages
398
Location
Just north of the Sheeple's Republik of Madistan
I was thinking the other day. Yes, I know that this is dangerous!!

But, we all were a bit...scared, fearful, nervous, the first time we opened carried. So, how about a list of people, by regions, who are willing to "adopt a first timer" to help lessen the fear on their "first time out"?

Just post screen name's of "seasoned carriers" so "first timers" can PM us and set up a time to talk and meet for their "first open carry".

I know there are 5 or 6 people in the Chippewa Valley area that would do this. I am sure that most if not all the Wisconsin Carry Inc members state wide would do this. So, am I out of my mind to want to have a list made available on OCDO?

*****EDIT*****

Here will be a list for experienced open carriers willing to help out first timers.

Experienced open carriers, please make a post here with your area (about 50 miles from home) if not listed and the city you live in. This is so the "first timer" can see your post and PM you for help. I will make a single list in this post with all the area's and name's for each area.

If you would like someone with prior experience "open carrying" please PM or email a person in your local area.

Area: Chippewa Valley
goforlow - Eau Claire

Area: Trempealeau
BROKENSPROCKET - Independence

Area: LaCrosse
bnhcomputers - LaCrosse - this person will travel within 30 miles of LaCrosse to help
Johnny amish - Viroqua
Serpent - West Salem
Hardballer - Buffalo City
CUOfficer - LaCrosse


Area: Madison
motofixxer - Madison
Plankton - Sun Prairie

Area: Milwaukee
Wisconsin Carry - Chairman (Nik) - Milwaukee Nik@wisconsincarry.org

Area: Racine
Mugenlude - Racine

Area: Green Bay


Area: Stevens Point/Portage

Area: Tomah
kd6sxa - Tomah
Mlutz - Tomah

Area: Hudson
Added my name for Madison area.
 
Last edited:

jpm84092

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2010
Messages
1,066
Location
Salt Lake City, Utah, USA
Mentors

Unfortunately, the state I live in, Florida, does not permit open carry. If it did, I would carry anywhere it was legal to do so. My question is: If a person is so scared to open carry for the first time, and needs someone to hold their hand to do so, what makes them think they would be willing and able to use the firearm, should the need arise? Is open carry just a means to look cool? If a person is evil enough, they really could care less if they see a gun. They will just be quicker to overpower you, or come at you when you are not looking. To me, even if you open carry, you still need to remain vigil of events taking place around you. Thoughts anyone?

I too am out of State. I am a Wisconsin transplant who now lives in Utah and holds Utah (resident), Pennsylvania, Nevada, and Florida non-resident CFP. I am working on my Utah Instructor Certification.

I have given the "mentor" idea some thought and it has pro and con aspects depending on who the mentor / trainer is. Open Carry does not require legally mandated training like concealed carry does (exception for AZ, VT, and AK) so it is likely that some, but not all, open carry persons have not received formal training in bad situation avoidance.

Potential mentors may or may not have marksmanship training. They may or may not have had defensive situational awareness training. Thus, an "ideal" mentor might be a LEO, or anyone who holds NRA (or equiv) Instructor Certification. There may be open carry people who have had a great deal of firearms training (current or ex military, current or ex LEO, or in the civilian training market) and they might make good mentors. Finally, there are individuals who are less well trained in a formal setting and thus are not "papered", but may be very experienced in open carry and have done their homework and know the law. These too might make good mentors as there are many online resources that one can do online training on. (I know, no substitute for instruction, demonstration, and critique.)

We can probably trust the members of this forum to be truthful and to only volunteer if they "have what it takes". Volunteering to mentor is a noble thing to do, but it also caries the responsibility to offer competent mentoring.
 

paul@paul-fisher.com

Regular Member
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
4,049
Location
Chandler, AZ
We can probably trust the members of this forum to be truthful and to only volunteer if they "have what it takes". Volunteering to mentor is a noble thing to do, but it also caries the responsibility to offer competent mentoring.

All I'm offering is companionship and some pointers on how to OC.
 

jpm84092

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2010
Messages
1,066
Location
Salt Lake City, Utah, USA
Why not Mr. Grinner? If an LEO is a member of this forum and can post to show his/her willingness to be a mentor, it is because he/she supports the right of Wisconsin Citizens to Open Carry and wants to help. Do you really want to eliminate a Law Enforcement Officer who is supportive of the average Wisconsin Citizen's right to Open Carry as a potential mentor just because they work in Law Enforcement? If so, please tell me why.

If so, then, if I move back to WI, I am disqualified as a mentor because I once wore a badge in WI. And frankly, I did not know that McDonald v. City of Chicago disqualified current or former LEOs from training those who had not yet had formal firearms training. Please write to other States that require firearms training to inform them of their folly in accepting training documents issued by current or former law enforcement officers (LEOs).

Please do not take this personally, but you are using an internet "handle" that is remarkably similar to the street name of the "enforcer" for Los Diablos Lobos - an outlaw motorcycle group in Milwaukee. While I doubt that there is any connection, the resemblance in internet names to street names is uncanny.
 
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