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How should I have handled being asked to unchamber a round?

Ltp0wer

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2010
Messages
16
Location
Chandler, Arizona, USA
Thanks for the replies, everyone.

Like I said in the OP, I totally would have told him "No thanks" and then walked away, but I was on my way to the range, and I had to meet people there.
 

LMTD

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Apr 8, 2010
Messages
1,919
Location
, ,
Next time you might think about turning it around on him instead.

1 What? you want me to unholster a loaded weapon in your store?
2 Are you crazy?
3 Why wouldn't you tell her the truth, in the retail business it is the gun you don't see that comes out of a robbers pocket.
4 Perhaps you need to attend an NRA approved safety course sir, one of the first things you are taught is that there is no such thing as an unloaded gun, you never should have even asked the question.

This is how folks get KILLED. Shift that scenario a little, you unholster, rack the slide back and lock it open, pick up the cartridge, put it in your pocket, thumb the slide release, he says hey do you mind if I take a look at that I have never seen one, you hand it to him, the idiot puts his boogar hook on the trigger and BLAMMMMMM, because you neglected to drop the mag as you were huge nervous first about being addressed, second about committing a fairly unsafe act in unholstering, etc.

This might sound pretty far fetched for you, but it is not, it happens a LOT, guys clear the chamber without dropping the mag, or they lock it back and slap a mag in and ASSUME the gun is not loaded and test fire it after cleaning. I can name four folks whom have admitted doing this and none of them had any less than 20 years experience with firearms.

Like Zeke said, it never clears the holster unless your going to shoot it. If you like to clean it once a week, put it down on your cleaning bench holstered. I have two carry weapons (more but 2 I carry the most) and both are removed from the belt and put into the safe IN THE HOLSTER and back to my belt the same way.

Cops have to holster and unholster a lot and a large number of the negligent discharges happen during that process.

Next time they ask such a stupid question try "Sir, my training taught me one thing real well, there is no such thing as an unloaded weapon" When he ask about the pipe "Sir, the only way you would ever need to know that is if you threatened to kill me at which point you could verify for yourself by simply looking down the barrel and I don't think you would like to do that one." May I finish purchasing the cartridges I have on the counter without any more questioning of my legal behavior or do I have to shop some where else as a respected customer?"
 

mFonz77

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2009
Messages
265
Location
Sierra Vista, AZ
Absolutely not, (and here's why!)

Most prev. posters have covered the obvious one: the more you handle a gun, the higher the probability of a discharge, negligent OR intended.

Next up: legal -- The manager asks you to clear your weapon. Ok, was there a witness? Someone with you or who would testify on your behalf at a trial? Arizona defensive display allows for verbal conveyance, display of the weapon in a holster, or hand on the weapon in a holster (or otherwise secured). If at least one other third party were to see you with your weapon out, NOT knowing what had transpired between you and the manager, you could have a brandishing charge on your hands, not to mention another CCWer thinking you were trying to hold the place up. (Just *possible scenarios here folks, not how it necessarily would have played out).

Lastly, it clearly wasn't a question of a) law or b) store policy. It was so a manager could feel better not lying to someone if a situation came up. Not only is this a) shaky at best, but b) just lie, manager. It's not even really a lie: with a holstered weapon there *is* nothing to worry about.

No, I would have refused the request, and either completed my purchase if able or gone somewhere else.
 

chrsjhnsn

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2008
Messages
338
Location
La Paz county, Arizona.
I agree with most here

ejecting a round is dangerous, cop locker rooms and my old job at an armed security company provide
shooting barrels. I hate that they ask you not to have a loaded gun at gun shows too -& then fail to provide a safe area to eject a round.
 

Thoreau

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2009
Messages
315
Location
Phoenix, Arizona, USA
ejecting a round is dangerous, cop locker rooms and my old job at an armed security company provide
shooting barrels. I hate that they ask you not to have a loaded gun at gun shows too -& then fail to provide a safe area to eject a round.

The gun show situation became an issue for me the last time (and I do mean LAST) that I went to the Crossroads show at the state fairgrounds. I had been there once before and actually seem to remember there being clearing barrels just after the ticket sales booths, but such barrels we definitely not there this time. Instead there were a couple (not-so-nice) guys behind a table doing clearing/tagging. I hadn't seen any signs on the way in (although they claimed there were signs saying no 'loaded' weapons at the booths where ya pay for parking) but knew that I'd have to be unloaded within the event. So while I was buying my tickets, I dropped the mag from my gun without unholstering, pocketed the mag, and went along my way (mind you I di NOT attempt to clear the chamber while standing in line since that would be idiotic.)

I got my ticket, went to the clearing tables, and handed my USP to the jackass behind the table who cleared the gun and, shocked, proclaimed "you had a round in the chamber!?" Well, duh, there was nowhere to clear the gun safely. He began berating myself and my friend who was in the same boat about how it's state property, there were signs, etc. (Of course, being state property does NOT mean no firearms, which is what he was pressing, but i didn't push it with him.) Eventually I got a poorly placed zip tie run through the magwell and chamber of my gun that proceeded to scratch my arm for the rest of my visit. To say the least, I'm done with that place.
 
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protias

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2008
Messages
7,308
Location
SE, WI
Handling your firearm at the register? Does he want other people to think you are going to "stick up" the place?
 
2

28kfps

Guest
I am of the opinion never grabbing your gun in public unless it is to defend. Accidental discharge does happen during clearing a firearm. I believe you did well not to elevate the issue and complied. I want to thank you (for whatever that is worth) for sharing your story and taking on the responsibility to ask for advice. A lot of good advice has been posted. I would have told him I never unholster my firearm in public unless needed for life or death defense. If you still were willing to make the purchase asked if you could pay and leave. If he says no then leave. I believe that was one of the most asinine things a manager of a sporting goods store that sells guns and ammo could have asked for. Indicates to me the manager had little or no firearm safety training.
 
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Vegassteve

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Messages
1,763
Location
Las Vegas NV, ,
I agree..., however; I always Carry with the full Clip or Magazine inserted into the Firearm-well, but never with a Round Chambered or Racked into the Firing Position. Furthermore, I am sure to engage the Safety prior to inserting the Clip or Magazine, and I Carry in Public in much the same manner.

Although modernFirearms are Specially-Crafted Machinery..., I try to err on the side of caution.

This may sound like Utah Carry, but I think that is more safe than full-blown Loaded Carry while in Public, unless it is nessecary to do so.

I think that another way to say the same thing is to suggest that my Firearm is alwaysat least two actions away from Firing, unless it needs to be ready to Fire.

However, I am uncertain if this puts me ina disadventageous Tactical Position...

Tell you what leave your gun at home. Carry a rock instead because thats all a carry gun without a round chambered is. You need more training if thats how you carry.
 

protias

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2008
Messages
7,308
Location
SE, WI
I am of the opinion never grabbing your gun in public unless it is to defend. Accidental discharge happens all the time during clearing a firearm. I believe you did well not to elevate the issue and complied. I want to thank you (for whatever that is worth) for sharing your story and taking on the responsibility to ask for advice. A lot of good advice has been posted. I would have told him I never unholster my firearm in public unless needed for life or death defense. If you still were willing to make the purchase asked if you could pay and leave. If he says no then leave. I believe that was one of the most asinine things a manager of a sporting goods store that sells guns and ammo could have asked for. Indicates to me the manager had little or no firearm safety training.

Define, "all the time?"
 
2

28kfps

Guest
Define, "all the time?"

Good point. Should have said it does happen.
I was kind of using the democratic anti gun approach to wording. All the time meaning the same as occasionally or more than once. I have not researched it for statistics however; I do remember reading a few stories and know of two others over the years that did shoot themselves clearing their gun. One of them a security guard. Glad I did not know them well enough to go shooting with them.
 

MKEgal

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,383
Location
in front of my computer, WI
my firearm is always at least two actions away from firing, unless it needs to be ready to fire.

1) How do you know when you'll need to be ready to fire?

2) My 2 actions: release retention strap, finger on trigger
(which of course follows drawing & aiming, so you could say I was 4 actions away from firing... even safer!)
 

protias

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2008
Messages
7,308
Location
SE, WI
Good point. Should have said it does happen.
I was kind of using the democratic anti gun approach to wording. All the time meaning the same as occasionally or more than once. I have not researched it for statistics however; I do remember reading a few stories and know of two others over the years that did shoot themselves clearing their gun. One of them a security guard. Glad I did not know them well enough to go shooting with them.

I'd say it does happen, but not as often as one may think. Of course, the more you handle a loaded firearm, the greater the risk of possible AD. Then again, you are more likely to die from being struck by lightening than you are from being shot.
 
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