FMCDH
Regular Member
+1
Knowing when the "other guy" is speaking out of his *** is half the battle. Another quarter of it is being able to intelligently and non confrontationaly call him on it.
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Washington State Frequently Asked Questions About Open Carry
- Thread starter Bill Starks
- Start date
+1
Knowing when the "other guy" is speaking out of his *** is half the battle. Another quarter of it is being able to intelligently and non confrontationaly call him on it.
Samantha86
Regular Member
I thought that it was illegal to carry a gun in any national parks?
slapmonkay
Campaign Veteran
It's allowed if allowed by state law in which the park is located.
http://www.nps.gov/mora/parkmgmt/lawsandpolicies.htm
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True, except for no guns allowed in any building regularly used by park employees - buildings so restricted must be clearly posted.
Tucked away in the “Miscellaneous Provision” section at the end of the credit card reform bill – the Credit Cardholders’ Bill of Rights Act of 2009 – passed by the U.S. Congress, is a provision allowing people to carry loaded firearms in national parks and wildlife refuges.
http://usgovinfo.about.com/b/2009/05/20/credit-card-bill-allows-guns-in-national-parks.htm
GuidoZ
Regular Member
This is exactly what I despise about "the system". Adding things on that have absolutely nothing to do with the original piece of legislation, be it a good thing or a bad thing, that most never bother to read. If I had a forensic case and didn't bother to read the case notes or actually do the forensic recovery, but went ahead and signed off on "my findings" anyway, I'd not only be fired but likely charged with a criminal offense. And we pay these a$$hats how much? :banghead::cuss:
--
Peace. ~G
I was responding to (clarifying) Hot_Every_Night's query, regarding national parks - to that degree NPS exception is special as not all federal land is so included i.e. Army Corps of Engineer's domain.
I am aware that "federal facilities" (buildings) are generally off limits.
alxndrxvier
Regular Member
I would like to say thank you to everyone for this wonderful thread and forum. I appreciate all the information and help that you guys (and gals) give out. I have done a lot of research, and frankly I have never been good with interpreting the laws of this land. Basically I am just looking for a little clarification.
I currently live in CA (unfortunately) but have family in WA and plan to visit in July and OC if possible. I just wanted to make sure that I understand the laws regarding this. It seems to me that either UOC or LOC is legal in most places. The strange exception to this is within a vehicle. So if I UOC I won't need to do anything once I climb into my private vehicle. However if I LOC I will need to immediately unload the weapon. Question: Can I UOC within a vehicle while the weapon is still in my holster? Another exception would be a private business/residence/building that has specifically not allowed OC of firearms. These must be respected and obeyed immediately. If posted no OC, if not and they ask you to leave, you must do so. While OCing on the street a duly authorized officer of the law can only stop you if he has cause to believe that you have either just commited or intend to commit a crime. Otherwise, except to pass the time of day, they are unable to perform safety checks or run serial numbers of weapons unless we volunteer. Am I correct on that? I would never dream of arguing with an officer, simply because s/he has the legal and moral right to draw their gun before I ever do, and it's just not worth getting harrassed by a cop who doesn't like the cut of my gib. So I would happily answer all questions, and since I am not doing anything illegal, nor plan to do anything illegal, if they want to run the serial number, honestly I would let them. However I want to be aware of my rights as a citizen of The United States, and what my responsibilities re: police officers are while OCing. Also, since I don't plan to visit WA enough to make it worthwhile I do not currently plan to apply for a CPL, though I may decide to at a later date. As far as I can tell this should not be a problem. Am I correct on that?
Thanks in advance for your help clearing up this rather muddled matter.
I currently live in CA (unfortunately) but have family in WA and plan to visit in July and OC if possible. I just wanted to make sure that I understand the laws regarding this. It seems to me that either UOC or LOC is legal in most places. The strange exception to this is within a vehicle. So if I UOC I won't need to do anything once I climb into my private vehicle. However if I LOC I will need to immediately unload the weapon. Question: Can I UOC within a vehicle while the weapon is still in my holster? Another exception would be a private business/residence/building that has specifically not allowed OC of firearms. These must be respected and obeyed immediately. If posted no OC, if not and they ask you to leave, you must do so. While OCing on the street a duly authorized officer of the law can only stop you if he has cause to believe that you have either just commited or intend to commit a crime. Otherwise, except to pass the time of day, they are unable to perform safety checks or run serial numbers of weapons unless we volunteer. Am I correct on that? I would never dream of arguing with an officer, simply because s/he has the legal and moral right to draw their gun before I ever do, and it's just not worth getting harrassed by a cop who doesn't like the cut of my gib. So I would happily answer all questions, and since I am not doing anything illegal, nor plan to do anything illegal, if they want to run the serial number, honestly I would let them. However I want to be aware of my rights as a citizen of The United States, and what my responsibilities re: police officers are while OCing. Also, since I don't plan to visit WA enough to make it worthwhile I do not currently plan to apply for a CPL, though I may decide to at a later date. As far as I can tell this should not be a problem. Am I correct on that?
Thanks in advance for your help clearing up this rather muddled matter.
Bill Starks
State Researcher
Question: Can I UOC within a vehicle while the weapon is still in my holster?
*As long as it IS NOT concealed on your person, yes.
Otherwise, except to pass the time of day, they are unable to perform safety checks or run serial numbers of weapons unless we volunteer. Am I correct on that?
* Correct
I would never dream of arguing with an officer, simply because s/he has the legal and moral right to draw their gun before I ever do, and it's just not worth getting harrassed by a cop who doesn't like the cut of my gib.
Am I free to go?
What legal/Moral right if I am doing nothing wrong?
So I would happily answer all questions, and since I am not doing anything illegal, nor plan to do anything illegal, if they want to run the serial number, honestly I would let them. However I want to be aware of my rights as a citizen of The United States, and what my responsibilities re: police officers are while OCing. Also, since I don't plan to visit WA enough to make it worthwhile I do not currently plan to apply for a CPL, though I may decide to at a later date. As far as I can tell this should not be a problem. Am I correct on that?
To each his own but I for one am not giving up ANY of my rights ( as soon as you start answering questions, you give up rights, let them run the serial? Why?? more rights given away. The CPL is under $54 now and allows you to carry in 22 states. Get the CPL.....
*As long as it IS NOT concealed on your person, yes.
Otherwise, except to pass the time of day, they are unable to perform safety checks or run serial numbers of weapons unless we volunteer. Am I correct on that?
* Correct
I would never dream of arguing with an officer, simply because s/he has the legal and moral right to draw their gun before I ever do, and it's just not worth getting harrassed by a cop who doesn't like the cut of my gib.
Am I free to go?
What legal/Moral right if I am doing nothing wrong?
So I would happily answer all questions, and since I am not doing anything illegal, nor plan to do anything illegal, if they want to run the serial number, honestly I would let them. However I want to be aware of my rights as a citizen of The United States, and what my responsibilities re: police officers are while OCing. Also, since I don't plan to visit WA enough to make it worthwhile I do not currently plan to apply for a CPL, though I may decide to at a later date. As far as I can tell this should not be a problem. Am I correct on that?
To each his own but I for one am not giving up ANY of my rights ( as soon as you start answering questions, you give up rights, let them run the serial? Why?? more rights given away. The CPL is under $54 now and allows you to carry in 22 states. Get the CPL.....
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alxndrxvier
Regular Member
M1Gunr, Thanks for the quick response. And thank you for answering my questions. I do appreciate the help in this situation.
I would like to make one response to your comment about giving up rights. While I cannot argue with you, and do believe that you are correct in your assessment of the type of situation described, I believe that it is the better path to follow. For the following reasons. Is it better to stand on your rights and refuse to cooperate with an officer who is being polite and simply trying to ensure the public safety? His job btw. Or is it better to cooperate thereby showing that you are a law abiding citizen, not trying to do anything shady and simply trying to exercise the rights guaranteed to you by law? If the officer was just doing his job and was being polite about it your refusal might give them "probable cause" to detain you and run the serial number anyway, without your permission. If you aren't doing anything illegal, you aren't carrying an illegal gun and the gun was legally purchased, never used in the commission of a crime and you are allowed to own a firearm, what is the harm in letting the officer in question do their job ensuring not only your safety, but the safety of those around you?
"What legal/Moral right if I am doing nothing wrong?"
The officer has the authority, the legal right and the moral right to draw their firearm in defense of citizens, to stop someone from breaking a law, or to assist in the apprehension of a person suspected of breaking a law. (someone please correct me if I am wrong on that, but that is the way it was explained to me by a friend who is also a police officer) The problem with this is that it is up to their subjective judgement. See my comment above about "probable cause". I would rather not get into a situation where a police officer even remembers that he has a gun on his hip while dealing with me. To avoid that, I will happily answer any questions I consider reasonable and which do not actually violate my civil rights. No you don't have to answer, but I would suggest to anyone who is in a situation like this, think long and hard about whether or not you are willing to live with the consequences of not answering, and if the point in question is truly worth the hassle.
Also, in my own defense, in CA when OC was legal you had to submit to a safety check anytime you were stopped by an officer. So my thought processes might be a little warped by that.
Finally I don't see answering questions as giving up rights. He might be asking to see if he knows as much as you about the current laws, which in most cases he probably doesn't. He might be asking to ensure that you know what you are doing and that you are doing it correctly and safely, so that he can educate you if necessary. Both situations are perfectly reasonable and, frankly, I would welcome encounters like this.
Just my two cents.
Again thanks for the help. I appreciate the feedback and the differing point of view on this topic. Unfortunately you get just as many different opinions as there are people who are both for and against OC. I appreciate your candor and response.
I would like to make one response to your comment about giving up rights. While I cannot argue with you, and do believe that you are correct in your assessment of the type of situation described, I believe that it is the better path to follow. For the following reasons. Is it better to stand on your rights and refuse to cooperate with an officer who is being polite and simply trying to ensure the public safety? His job btw. Or is it better to cooperate thereby showing that you are a law abiding citizen, not trying to do anything shady and simply trying to exercise the rights guaranteed to you by law? If the officer was just doing his job and was being polite about it your refusal might give them "probable cause" to detain you and run the serial number anyway, without your permission. If you aren't doing anything illegal, you aren't carrying an illegal gun and the gun was legally purchased, never used in the commission of a crime and you are allowed to own a firearm, what is the harm in letting the officer in question do their job ensuring not only your safety, but the safety of those around you?
"What legal/Moral right if I am doing nothing wrong?"
The officer has the authority, the legal right and the moral right to draw their firearm in defense of citizens, to stop someone from breaking a law, or to assist in the apprehension of a person suspected of breaking a law. (someone please correct me if I am wrong on that, but that is the way it was explained to me by a friend who is also a police officer) The problem with this is that it is up to their subjective judgement. See my comment above about "probable cause". I would rather not get into a situation where a police officer even remembers that he has a gun on his hip while dealing with me. To avoid that, I will happily answer any questions I consider reasonable and which do not actually violate my civil rights. No you don't have to answer, but I would suggest to anyone who is in a situation like this, think long and hard about whether or not you are willing to live with the consequences of not answering, and if the point in question is truly worth the hassle.
Also, in my own defense, in CA when OC was legal you had to submit to a safety check anytime you were stopped by an officer. So my thought processes might be a little warped by that.
Finally I don't see answering questions as giving up rights. He might be asking to see if he knows as much as you about the current laws, which in most cases he probably doesn't. He might be asking to ensure that you know what you are doing and that you are doing it correctly and safely, so that he can educate you if necessary. Both situations are perfectly reasonable and, frankly, I would welcome encounters like this.
Just my two cents.
Again thanks for the help. I appreciate the feedback and the differing point of view on this topic. Unfortunately you get just as many different opinions as there are people who are both for and against OC. I appreciate your candor and response.
There are two distinct attitudes that a police officer will approach you with intent to start a conversation. First is the "official duty" attitude. If I'm getting this, it's not ok with me and I'm likely to try and turn my back and walk away right then. The other is a casual, friendly,"I'm on duty and board" attitude. If I'm approached like this I'm likely to maintain a friendly but short convo. Neither way do I feel compelled to justify myself just because he has a uniform.
alxndrxvier
Regular Member
Levi,
Thank you for your input. That is similiar to what I was trying to say. Though it appears as if I didn't get my point into words as well as I thought.
I didn't mean to imply that you need to justify yourself or your actions to the officer. Frankly that is not a good idea. Even if you are breaking the law and the officer is arresting you, they can use everything you say to try to build a case against you, possibly adding additional charges based on what you say. Keep quiet until you talk to your attorney. However, in my experience, if you are polite to the officer in question and do not give him reason, through action or simple rudeness, to do more than ask a couple of questions, and assuming you aren't activtely breaking the law, most police officers will tend to leave you alone and let you go about your business. The thing to keep in mind in a situation like this is that even though you don't believe the uniform makes a difference, he most likely does, and that is where the problem lies. You haven't done anything wrong by walking away in a situation like this, as you aren't breaking the law, he isn't asking for assistance while in pursuit of a suspect, etc. However the officer might see it as disrespect to him personally or to police in general. Finally you have to realize that when an officer is in uniform he is on duty. Period. And just like in any other profession, you have nice guys and jerks. Unfortunately the jerks in uniform have guns and handcuffs and are allowed to use them.Welcome to OCDO.
Short answer is "yes" - provided that you are not an otherwise prohibited person and obey all laws applicable. This thread was started for precisely the reason of answering such general questions and to provide the links/laws so that anyone could determine for themselves. You should avail yourself of that opportunity.
Concealed carry is hardly open carry so there is a fundamental disconnect with the specific wording of your question. The minute that you conceal it, you are no longer open carrying.
1245A Defender
Regular Member
Well,,,
I will also say Hi! welcome to OCDO...
I dont know why grapeshot wrote, but said nothing of import.
Washington state welcomes all those 21 and older to Open carry where ever it is legal to do so... even when camping.
Study rcw 9.41.060 (8) to find that when camping, and other outdoor activities,
even those 18 thru 21 can open and conceall carry!
go to the cop shop or sheriff and get this booklet for free,,, "Firearm safety the law and you"
I will also say Hi! welcome to OCDO...
I dont know why grapeshot wrote, but said nothing of import.
Washington state welcomes all those 21 and older to Open carry where ever it is legal to do so... even when camping.
Study rcw 9.41.060 (8) to find that when camping, and other outdoor activities,
even those 18 thru 21 can open and conceall carry!
go to the cop shop or sheriff and get this booklet for free,,, "Firearm safety the law and you"
The OP asked, I answered. Last time I checked that was permissible.
Why the public slight?
1245A Defender
Regular Member
Well,,,,
I try to only post when I actually have something germane to add to the convo... so only 2900 posts.
to alxndrxvier
YOU are training those cops,,, and all of the other cops in that town that,,,,
they can stop anybody, and everybody, anytime, for anything,,, EVERYTIME!!!
You are teaching that cop, and all the cops in that force that you and everybody else has NO rights!
Be nice to the cops!
Do NOT give up your, and my rights to the cops!
to grape; you have 18000 posts, your responses to soooo many threads is why.
my public "slight" was very slight, barely deserved a new off topic post to inflate your count.
I wish someday to visit Virginia,,, see some friends there,, grape, skid, ed, user, peter, etc,etc,....
I try to only post when I actually have something germane to add to the convo... so only 2900 posts.
to alxndrxvier
- View Profile
- View Forum Posts
- Private Message
- View Blog Entries
- Add as Contact I will say this,,, when You are polite and respectful,
- to cops, that have a "legal right" and a "moral authority"
- to inspect your ID and run your gun numbers, cause their just doing their job.......
YOU are training those cops,,, and all of the other cops in that town that,,,,
they can stop anybody, and everybody, anytime, for anything,,, EVERYTIME!!!
You are teaching that cop, and all the cops in that force that you and everybody else has NO rights!
Be nice to the cops!
Do NOT give up your, and my rights to the cops!
to grape; you have 18000 posts, your responses to soooo many threads is why.
my public "slight" was very slight, barely deserved a new off topic post to inflate your count.
I wish someday to visit Virginia,,, see some friends there,, grape, skid, ed, user, peter, etc,etc,....
Bill Starks
State Researcher
These threads would be pages shorter if folks took it to PM.....
Read up on the RCW's specifically RCW 9.41.060 which provides an exemption for engaging in as well as to/from a lawful outdoor activity. See item #18 on the initial FAQ.
Gun RCW's:
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41
Read up on the RCW's specifically RCW 9.41.060 which provides an exemption for engaging in as well as to/from a lawful outdoor activity. See item #18 on the initial FAQ.
Gun RCW's:
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41
BigDave
Opt-Out Members
Taking some of the conversations to PM's would lose out on some of nuances of the RCW's or increase the chance of misinformation so on this point, let it be several pages it is for everyone's benefit.
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Bill Starks
State Researcher
I was inferring to the BS between members..... I'm all for answering questions in the open.
