Washington State Frequently Asked Questions About Open Carry

BigDave · Sep 19, 2012

randian said:
I see that the AG explicitly calls it the "hunting and fishing" exemption, even though hunting and fishing are but example activities in the statute itself. I can easily see being arrested by an officer who thinks "hunting and fishing" is more than just a shorthand reference to the statute.

This is a prime example how statements get manipulated around to imply something other then stated ie "In your request you asked for clarification regarding the definition of RCW 9.41.060(8) which is popularly known as the “hunting and fishing” exception to concealed carry requirements in Washington State."

Do not get away with shorting or modifying what the law actually says;

(8) Any person engaging in a lawful outdoor recreational activity such as hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, or horseback riding, only if, considering all of the attendant circumstances, including but not limited to whether the person has a valid hunting or fishing license, it is reasonable to conclude that the person is participating in lawful outdoor activities or is traveling to or from a legitimate outdoor recreation area;

randian said:
Would riding zip lines being a legitimate outdoor recreational activity? While not much like one of the listed activities in RCW 9.41.050, it is generally done outdoors in a forest setting and is arguably recreational. There seem to be many such companies offering this type of activity in Washington.
If only there were some major coaster parks in Washington. Riding roller coasters is a lawful outdoor activity after all

Engaging in a lawful outdoor recreational activity such as! is going to be your down fall when it comes to roller coasters as either a Judge or a Jury of your Peers will weigh in on if this activity is like hunting, fishing, camping, hiking or horseback riding. How would anyone of these be like a roller coaster? or zip lining for that matter. While they are both legal recreational activities they are not in my view like the activities described.

Trigger Dr · Sep 21, 2012

Bill Starks said:
From the AG's office....

[In your request you asked for clarification regarding the definition of RCW 9.41.060(8) which is popularly known as the “hunting and fishing” exception to concealed carry requirements in Washington State.

Did you see the words POPULARLY KNOWN ??? Read it again and this time pay attention.

Bill Starks · May 6, 2013

Added line 20

20) Do “No Firearm” signs hold the weight of law in Washington State?
No Firearm signs have no force of law unless they are posted on property that is specifically mentioned in RCW 9.41.300 as being off limits to those with a Permit/License to Carry. If you are in a place not specifically mentioned in the law that is posted and they ask you to leave, you must leave. If you refuse to leave then you are breaking the law and can be charged. Even if the property is not posted and you are asked to leave you must leave. Always be aware of the possibility that responding Police Officers who may have been called without your knowledge and may not know the laws on trespass and could arrest you even if you are within the law.

islandal72 · Jun 14, 2013

Q&A

Awesome thread!!!!
Posted and shared on FB

markm · Jun 28, 2013

islandal72 said:
Awesome thread!!!!
Posted and shared on FB

Hey islandal72:

+1 on your comments.

Thanks to Bill Starks for citing and lifting quotes from the RCW. This is very informative thread and I got my questions answered.

I was interested in RCW 9.41.060(8). The deputy AGs response to your question is how I originally interpreted the law. RCW 9.41.060(8) is a "positive defense" if a LEO illegally searches your personal gear (backpack, or illegallly detains and then frisks you for weapons, etc.) and then arrests you while you were enjoying the outdoors. [all 4A violations]).

After all, how is LEO going to know that you are concealing a handgun in your backpack or jacket while you are hiking down a trail? He isn't--that's the point. (Read Michigan v. Chesternut and Terry v. Ohio)

As for the car scenario, it is very rare for someone to succesfully defend themselves with a gun from a car. The car is your best defensive weapon in that scenario. Drive to a populated place or a LEO station for a secure area. Or, unwrap your handgun from its "secure wrapper*" and load it while driving. *RCW 9.41.060(9). In a worst case scenario, use your car as a defensive weapon.

A reasonable person can conclude that zip lining was not part of the legislative intent of RCW 9.41.060(8).

Thanks again,

markm

drewdownkali · Aug 8, 2013

MarkBofRAdvocate said:
Hey islandal72:

+1 on your comments.

Thanks to Bill Starks for citing and lifting quotes from the RCW. This is very informative thread and I got my questions answered.

I was interested in RCW 9.41.060(8). The deputy AGs response to your question is how I originally interpreted the law. RCW 9.41.060(8) is a "positive defense" if a LEO illegally searches your personal gear (backpack, or illegallly detains and then frisks you for weapons, etc.) and then arrests you while you were enjoying the outdoors. [all 4A violations]).

After all, how is LEO going to know that you are concealing a handgun in your backpack or jacket while you are hiking down a trail? He isn't--that's the point. (Read Michigan v. Chesternut and Terry v. Ohio)

As for the car scenario, it is very rare for someone to succesfully defend themselves with a gun from a car. The car is your best defensive weapon in that scenario. Drive to a populated place or a LEO station for a secure area. Or, unwrap your handgun from its "secure wrapper*" and load it while driving. *RCW 9.41.060(9). In a worst case scenario, use your car as a defensive weapon.

A reasonable person can conclude that zip lining was not part of the legislative intent of RCW 9.41.060(8).

Thanks again,

markm

I love my car. I wouldn't want to hurt it. Lol.

drewdownkali · Aug 8, 2013

Whats Washington's laws on rifles? Can you walk around with one on you back?

Grapeshot · Aug 8, 2013

drewdownkali said:
Whats Washington's laws on rifles? Can you walk around with one on you back?

Others more knowledgable on your state law will chime in shortly.

Meanwhile educate yourself - follow the links:
http://smartgunlaws.org/category/state-open-carrying-of-guns/page/5/

Cliff Notes, map style:
http://www.opencarry.org/

It is however, beyond the intent, scope and rules of OCDO; therefore any lengthy discussion/thread will be locked, edited or deleted.

Forum Rules

(14) LONG GUN CARRY IS OFF-TOPIC: This web site is focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life. We do NOT promote the carry of long guns. Long guns are great! OCDO co-founders John & Mike and most of the members of this forum own at least one long gun - but due to urban area issues of muzzle control, lack of trigger guard coverage, and the fact that the long gun carry issue distracts from our main mission to promote the open carry of handguns in daily life, we will leave long gun carry activism in the capable hands of the future founders of web sites about long gun carry.

sudden valley gunner · Aug 8, 2013

Rifles wouldn't be a good way to normalize carry in my opinion, and it makes it hard to go about your daily/normal activities.

Yes it is legal, but keep in mind State vs Spencer, and that it may be way easier for cops and prosecutors and judges and a jury to construe you are doing something illegal.

drewdownkali · Aug 8, 2013

7) Can I carry with a round in the chamber? (RCW 9.41.010)(10) & (RCW 77.15.460) defines "loaded" in Washington state. Unloaded means; Empty cylinder, empty chamber, no full mag or tube, not capped or primed.

I don't think I understand this. Seems like you are just defining what loaded and unloaded are. So can you carry with one in the chamber? I would think with a revolver this wouldn't even pertain otherwise you have to be completely empty.

drewdownkali · Aug 8, 2013

Grapeshot said:
Others more knowledgable on your state law will chime in shortly.

Meanwhile educate yourself - follow the links:
http://smartgunlaws.org/category/state-open-carrying-of-guns/page/5/

Cliff Notes, map style:
http://www.opencarry.org/

It is however, beyond the intent, scope and rules of OCDO; therefore any lengthy discussion/thread will be locked, edited or deleted.

Forum Rules

Ok. Sorry. Thank you.

Ajetpilot · Aug 8, 2013

drewdownkali said:
So can you carry with one in the chamber?

Do you see anything in the RCW that says you can't?

drewdownkali · Aug 9, 2013

Ajetpilot said:
Do you see anything in the RCW that says you can't?

Gotcha.

drewdownkali · Aug 9, 2013

Anyone carried at Island lake? Can't remember if they still have the signs or if they have pulled them down.

Vitaeus · Aug 10, 2013

drewdownkali said:
7) Can I carry with a round in the chamber? (RCW 9.41.010)(10) & (RCW 77.15.460) defines "loaded" in Washington state. Unloaded means; Empty cylinder, empty chamber, no full mag or tube, not capped or primed.

I don't think I understand this. Seems like you are just defining what loaded and unloaded are. So can you carry with one in the chamber? I would think with a revolver this wouldn't even pertain otherwise you have to be completely empty.

the loaded versus unloaded is used in 9.41.050 about carrying in a vehicle, in Washington that is treated as a privilege, since it requires a CPL.

tl;dr Yes you may carry with a round in the chamber, if you are in a vehicle, you are required to have a valid CPL.

drewdownkali · Aug 11, 2013

and in a car, if you are also in the car, does it need to be on you? I was told that and it seems to be the case as I read it.

1245A Defender · Aug 11, 2013

Well,,,

drewdownkali said:
and in a car, if you are also in the car, does it need to be on you? I was told that and it seems to be the case as I read it.

read 9.41.050 again

i, the gun is on you or
ii, you are in the car, that the gun is in or
iii, you cover the gun from view, and lock the car while you are away

Freedom1Man · Aug 11, 2013

drewdownkali said:
Whats Washington's laws on rifles? Can you walk around with one on you back?

Legal, yes. Have I done it? More than once.
Have I been arrested for it? Never.
Is it to be promoted on this site? NO!
Will you get harassed by the police? The Magic 8 Ball says, "most likely."

I have been arrested for OC with a pistol though.

You might have it stolen from you by a game warden if you do it while walking around in the forests W/O a hunting license though.

PALO · Aug 11, 2013

Freedom1Man said:
Legal, yes. Have I done it? More than once.
Have I been arrested for it? Never.
Is it to be promoted on this site? NO!
Will you get harassed by the police? The Magic 8 Ball says, "most likely."

I have been arrested for OC with a pistol though.

It's all about "warrants alarm" and the reasonable person standard. Some people think a rifle in a sling is equivalent to a handgun in a holster, not to warrant alarm among the "reasonable person", others strongly disagree but then this isn't a open carry rifle forum, so can't wank on that topic.

I can say that THE PUBLIC can and does in much greater #'s and with much more intensity GET alarmed by dudes OCing rifles (in open, not in case etc.) than handguns. I gauge that by calls to dispatch.

WA state, amongst the states that recognize the right to carry OC is *pretty* good about respecting it , with pistols. I've OC'd a fair amount and never been hassled. From the OC reports I read in WA state that seems to be par for the course. From what I hear/read, it's much better than it was back in the bad ole days.

I checked and made sure my local PD has an explicit policy on OC and it does - that OCing is legal and OCers rights are to be respected. Nice to see policy consistent with law. That is not always the case (more likely there won't be policy than actually having policy contra to law).

One question that I get asked is - if somebody is OCing and they put their hand on the butt of the gun - is that to be viewed as "aggressive" behavior.

Imo, if you carry a gun in a holster, you should keep your hand off it unless you are covering it with your arm when in tight company to prevent grabs or bumps or whatnot.

Cops and many other OCers ignore that and there is no LAW on it, but imnsho it's part of being respectful of others - keep your hand off the gun if you're not using it. It's not a toy.

--

also one does not need a CPL to carry concealed in one's abode or fixed place of business

I would disagree that any PUBLIC campus can legally prohibit the carry of firearms. There is a WAC and some policies that do so, but imo they aren't lawful. I haven't seen any cases of them being enforced, but if they were and they were challenged, I believe they would not fly.

Also, the "brandishing" statute 9.41.270 does not apply to you if you are at your own residence. So, yeah you could legally wave a gun around in front of other people reasonably warranting alarm, and it's not an offense if you are in your residence.

rapgood · Aug 12, 2013

PALO said:
<snip>
Also, the "brandishing" statute 9.41.270 does not apply to you if you are at your own residence. So, yeah you could legally wave a gun around in front of other people reasonably warranting alarm, and it's not an offense if you are in your residence.

or fixed place of business

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