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Thread: Washington State Frequently Asked Questions About Open Carry

  1. #51
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    I am mostly a CCer, thank you for the info & the straight foward answers. I usually don't have LEO issues nor do I ever go looking for them, just making sure I dot my i's & cross my t's is all. I'm still a baby at only 23 so LEO's do look toward me fast. Knowledge is power, thanks guys.

  2. #52
    Regular Member Vitaeus's Avatar
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    Any objections to adding citatations for other aspects of Open Carry relating to "officer safety" Terry stops or such?

    http://www.mrsc.org/dtsearch/dtisapi...rm%2ehtml#hit1

  3. #53
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    GREAT sticky. one thing i'd like to add--- about college campus carry.

    several public colleges have ADMINISTRATIVE CODES (note: NOT RCW's) that prohibit carry by students etc..

    i have yet to be able to find any case law, iow any student disciplined under these codes, that appealed and won or lost

    i STRONGLY suspect that the UW etc. cannot technically ban a kid from carrying on campus, merely because he is a student.

    although the admin code makes it appear they can

    for non students, at a public college, you most definitely can carry.

  4. #54
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    abode: RCW 9.41.270 MAKES AN EXCEPTION that this law does not apply to a person's "abode" or fixed place of business

    the RCW does not define abode.

    i had a friend do some research, and from what he was able to find, there is case law saying one's front porch is one's abode, but one's YARD is not

    iow, you cannot get charged under RCW 9.41.270 if you are INSIDE your house, or on your front porch

    presumably, standing on your front porch, waving your gun around like a fool (pants on the ground, pants on the ground) would not be actionable under 9.41.270

    not that i recommend this.

    it's still stupid, reckless, just plain WRONG, and if the gun was LOADED, i suspect something like reckless endangerment, etc. might be applicable

    note also that a CPL is not needed to carry concealed in your residence either.

    one more point. WA does not have a law making it illegal to carry while intoxicated. note WA does not even have a crime called "public intoxication"

    however, if one is caught DUI with a firearm, under the law , it can be seized

    presumably, if one was staggering down the street with a pistol (drunk), one could run afould of 9.41.270 since it could arguably : under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons.

    be considered behavior that "warrants alarm for the safety of other persons". an intoxicated person cannot safely retain their firearm, nor make good shoot/don't shoot decisions, so i think that's an issue people should be concerned with

    of course nobody should ever carry a firearm while intoxicated ANYWAY.

    the guy who researched the case law about "abode" meaning for this statute is a prosecutor and pretty knowledgeable.

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    hello my first post to any forum

    so i had my cpl expired a few years back an took cc courses to be smart, im studying up on oc laws to do it right but want to make sure on something, can i carry open cocked an locked? an im heavily tattooed, an a tattoo artist, havnt noticed people in spokane oc an im wondering how it is so far for people? iv oc for 2 days an havnt been stopped yet but i have 163 tats including one on face sorta like mike tyson, no gang stuff no violant stuff but its still somethin people kinda trip on just lookin at me

  6. #56
    Regular Member DCKilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tattoo bill View Post
    so i had my cpl expired a few years back an took cc courses to be smart, im studying up on oc laws to do it right but want to make sure on something, can i carry open cocked an locked? an im heavily tattooed, an a tattoo artist, havnt noticed people in spokane oc an im wondering how it is so far for people? iv oc for 2 days an havnt been stopped yet but i have 163 tats including one on face sorta like mike tyson, no gang stuff no violant stuff but its still somethin people kinda trip on just lookin at me
    Check out RCW 9.41.050, "cocked and locked" is not there, but car carry is. Tattoos are only a change of skin pigment. It's not a violation of the law to carry and have tats.
    Last edited by DCKilla; 03-19-2012 at 06:45 AM.

  7. #57
    Regular Member Thor80's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tattoo bill View Post
    so i had my cpl expired a few years back an took cc courses to be smart, im studying up on oc laws to do it right but want to make sure on something, can i carry open cocked an locked? an im heavily tattooed, an a tattoo artist, havnt noticed people in spokane oc an im wondering how it is so far for people? iv oc for 2 days an havnt been stopped yet but i have 163 tats including one on face sorta like mike tyson, no gang stuff no violant stuff but its still somethin people kinda trip on just lookin at me
    You mean you didn't see Orphan and I on the news getting wrongly asked to leave the Spokane convention center while OC? OC is pretty straight forward here. You CAN carry OC loaded. As was mentioned RCW 9.41.050 - without a CPL you can NOT carry loaded in your vechicle. RCW 9.41.300 is the one to read about where you can and cannot carry, period, regardless of CPL. Also check out "Outdoor Music Festivals". RCW 70.108.150, you cannot carry at one of those either, dunno why this one is not in .300....

    Also check out http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...n-WA-OC-Report for Spokane area experiences. Pretty uneventful over here...

    -Thor
    Last edited by Thor80; 03-19-2012 at 11:05 PM. Reason: Outdoor Music Festival addition

  8. #58
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    Welcome to the Forum

    Quote Originally Posted by tattoo bill View Post
    so i had my cpl expired a few years back an took cc courses to be smart, im studying up on oc laws to do it right but want to make sure on something, can i carry open cocked an locked? an im heavily tattooed, an a tattoo artist, havnt noticed people in spokane oc an im wondering how it is so far for people? iv oc for 2 days an havnt been stopped yet but i have 163 tats including one on face sorta like mike tyson, no gang stuff no violant stuff but its still somethin people kinda trip on just lookin at me
    Hey welcome Bill keep your eyes open on here for outings on the dry side and hook up with some of the OCers over there the ones I have met are A great bunch of people. Carry on my freind
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  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by tattoo bill View Post
    so i had my cpl expired a few years back an took cc courses to be smart, im studying up on oc laws to do it right but want to make sure on something, can i carry open cocked an locked? an im heavily tattooed, an a tattoo artist, havnt noticed people in spokane oc an im wondering how it is so far for people? iv oc for 2 days an havnt been stopped yet but i have 163 tats including one on face sorta like mike tyson, no gang stuff no violant stuff but its still somethin people kinda trip on just lookin at me
    You can carry cocked and locked, many of us do. It is not illegal.

    A suggestion, be polite, be courteous, be kind and be professional when you carry. Hold open doors for people, smile and make eye contact. And you will be treated with what you give and the gun will be a non-issue.
    Live Free or Die!

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    You can carry cocked and locked, many of us do. It is not illegal.

    A suggestion, be polite, be courteous, be kind and be professional when you carry. Hold open doors for people, smile and make eye contact. And you will be treated with what you give and the gun will be a non-issue.
    I agree with Nick and add to what he say by sayin....know you are in the right, having the right attitude and confidence makes other people feel comfortable around you.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    I agree with Nick and add to what he say by sayin....know you are in the right, having the right attitude and confidence makes other people feel comfortable around you.
    +1

    Knowing when the "other guy" is speaking out of his *** is half the battle. Another quarter of it is being able to intelligently and non confrontationaly call him on it.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by M1Gunr View Post
    ref RCW 9.41.010 in question 7 - Done
    I thought that it was illegal to carry a gun in any national parks?

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hot_Every_Night View Post
    I thought that it was illegal to carry a gun in any national parks?
    It's allowed if allowed by state law in which the park is located.

    http://www.nps.gov/mora/parkmgmt/lawsandpolicies.htm
    Last edited by slapmonkay; 03-26-2012 at 10:54 PM. Reason: link
    I Am Not A Lawyer, verify all facts presented independently.

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  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    Whatever is legal standing outside the gates of the National Park is legal inside the gates of the National Park. I believe it was 2010 that a Federal law went into effect that made it illegal for the Secretary of the Interior to make any rules or regulations regarding the carrying or possession of firearms on land under the control of the National Park Service.
    True, except for no guns allowed in any building regularly used by park employees - buildings so restricted must be clearly posted.

    Tucked away in the “Miscellaneous Provision” section at the end of the credit card reform bill – the Credit Cardholders’ Bill of Rights Act of 2009 – passed by the U.S. Congress, is a provision allowing people to carry loaded firearms in national parks and wildlife refuges.
    http://usgovinfo.about.com/b/2009/05...onal-parks.htm
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    ...Tucked away in the “Miscellaneous Provision” section at the end of the credit card reform bill – the Credit Cardholders’ Bill of Rights Act of 2009 – passed by the U.S. Congress, is a provision allowing people to carry loaded firearms in national parks and wildlife refuges.
    http://usgovinfo.about.com/b/2009/05...onal-parks.htm
    This is exactly what I despise about "the system". Adding things on that have absolutely nothing to do with the original piece of legislation, be it a good thing or a bad thing, that most never bother to read. If I had a forensic case and didn't bother to read the case notes or actually do the forensic recovery, but went ahead and signed off on "my findings" anyway, I'd not only be fired but likely charged with a criminal offense. And we pay these a$$hats how much?

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  16. #66
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hot_Every_Night View Post
    I thought that it was illegal to carry a gun in any national parks?
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    Whatever is legal standing outside the gates of the National Park is legal inside the gates of the National Park. I believe it was 2010 that a Federal law went into effect that made it illegal for the Secretary of the Interior to make any rules or regulations regarding the carrying or possession of firearms on land under the control of the National Park Service.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    True, except for no guns allowed in any building regularly used by park employees - buildings so restricted must be clearly posted.

    Tucked away in the “Miscellaneous Provision” section at the end of the credit card reform bill – the Credit Cardholders’ Bill of Rights Act of 2009 – passed by the U.S. Congress, is a provision allowing people to carry loaded firearms in national parks and wildlife refuges.
    http://usgovinfo.about.com/b/2009/05...onal-parks.htm
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    That is not a National Park exception or special regulation. That is also just as true outside the National Park as it is inside the National Park. 18 USC 930, Prohbition of firearms in Federal Facilities. Applies equally both inside and outside the National Park. Again, what is legal outside the gates of the National Park is legal inside the gates of the National Park....what is prohbited outside the gates of the National Park is prohibited inside the gates of the National Park. If there was a Post Office or a Federal courthouse inside the National Park, firearms would be prohibited there as well.
    I was responding to (clarifying) Hot_Every_Night's query, regarding national parks - to that degree NPS exception is special as not all federal land is so included i.e. Army Corps of Engineer's domain.

    I am aware that "federal facilities" (buildings) are generally off limits.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  17. #67
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    I would like to say thank you to everyone for this wonderful thread and forum. I appreciate all the information and help that you guys (and gals) give out. I have done a lot of research, and frankly I have never been good with interpreting the laws of this land. Basically I am just looking for a little clarification.

    I currently live in CA (unfortunately) but have family in WA and plan to visit in July and OC if possible. I just wanted to make sure that I understand the laws regarding this. It seems to me that either UOC or LOC is legal in most places. The strange exception to this is within a vehicle. So if I UOC I won't need to do anything once I climb into my private vehicle. However if I LOC I will need to immediately unload the weapon. Question: Can I UOC within a vehicle while the weapon is still in my holster? Another exception would be a private business/residence/building that has specifically not allowed OC of firearms. These must be respected and obeyed immediately. If posted no OC, if not and they ask you to leave, you must do so. While OCing on the street a duly authorized officer of the law can only stop you if he has cause to believe that you have either just commited or intend to commit a crime. Otherwise, except to pass the time of day, they are unable to perform safety checks or run serial numbers of weapons unless we volunteer. Am I correct on that? I would never dream of arguing with an officer, simply because s/he has the legal and moral right to draw their gun before I ever do, and it's just not worth getting harrassed by a cop who doesn't like the cut of my gib. So I would happily answer all questions, and since I am not doing anything illegal, nor plan to do anything illegal, if they want to run the serial number, honestly I would let them. However I want to be aware of my rights as a citizen of The United States, and what my responsibilities re: police officers are while OCing. Also, since I don't plan to visit WA enough to make it worthwhile I do not currently plan to apply for a CPL, though I may decide to at a later date. As far as I can tell this should not be a problem. Am I correct on that?

    Thanks in advance for your help clearing up this rather muddled matter.

  18. #68
    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    Question: Can I UOC within a vehicle while the weapon is still in my holster?
    *As long as it IS NOT concealed on your person, yes.


    Otherwise, except to pass the time of day, they are unable to perform safety checks or run serial numbers of weapons unless we volunteer. Am I correct on that?
    * Correct


    I would never dream of arguing with an officer, simply because s/he has the legal and moral right to draw their gun before I ever do, and it's just not worth getting harrassed by a cop who doesn't like the cut of my gib.


    Am I free to go?
    What legal/Moral right if I am doing nothing wrong?




    So I would happily answer all questions, and since I am not doing anything illegal, nor plan to do anything illegal, if they want to run the serial number, honestly I would let them. However I want to be aware of my rights as a citizen of The United States, and what my responsibilities re: police officers are while OCing. Also, since I don't plan to visit WA enough to make it worthwhile I do not currently plan to apply for a CPL, though I may decide to at a later date. As far as I can tell this should not be a problem. Am I correct on that?


    To each his own but I for one am not giving up ANY of my rights ( as soon as you start answering questions, you give up rights, let them run the serial? Why?? more rights given away. The CPL is under $54 now and allows you to carry in 22 states. Get the CPL.....
    Last edited by Bill Starks; 05-15-2012 at 05:56 PM. Reason: board issue

  19. #69
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    M1Gunr, Thanks for the quick response. And thank you for answering my questions. I do appreciate the help in this situation.

    I would like to make one response to your comment about giving up rights. While I cannot argue with you, and do believe that you are correct in your assessment of the type of situation described, I believe that it is the better path to follow. For the following reasons. Is it better to stand on your rights and refuse to cooperate with an officer who is being polite and simply trying to ensure the public safety? His job btw. Or is it better to cooperate thereby showing that you are a law abiding citizen, not trying to do anything shady and simply trying to exercise the rights guaranteed to you by law? If the officer was just doing his job and was being polite about it your refusal might give them "probable cause" to detain you and run the serial number anyway, without your permission. If you aren't doing anything illegal, you aren't carrying an illegal gun and the gun was legally purchased, never used in the commission of a crime and you are allowed to own a firearm, what is the harm in letting the officer in question do their job ensuring not only your safety, but the safety of those around you?

    "What legal/Moral right if I am doing nothing wrong?"
    The officer has the authority, the legal right and the moral right to draw their firearm in defense of citizens, to stop someone from breaking a law, or to assist in the apprehension of a person suspected of breaking a law. (someone please correct me if I am wrong on that, but that is the way it was explained to me by a friend who is also a police officer) The problem with this is that it is up to their subjective judgement. See my comment above about "probable cause". I would rather not get into a situation where a police officer even remembers that he has a gun on his hip while dealing with me. To avoid that, I will happily answer any questions I consider reasonable and which do not actually violate my civil rights. No you don't have to answer, but I would suggest to anyone who is in a situation like this, think long and hard about whether or not you are willing to live with the consequences of not answering, and if the point in question is truly worth the hassle.

    Also, in my own defense, in CA when OC was legal you had to submit to a safety check anytime you were stopped by an officer. So my thought processes might be a little warped by that.

    Finally I don't see answering questions as giving up rights. He might be asking to see if he knows as much as you about the current laws, which in most cases he probably doesn't. He might be asking to ensure that you know what you are doing and that you are doing it correctly and safely, so that he can educate you if necessary. Both situations are perfectly reasonable and, frankly, I would welcome encounters like this.

    Just my two cents.

    Again thanks for the help. I appreciate the feedback and the differing point of view on this topic. Unfortunately you get just as many different opinions as there are people who are both for and against OC. I appreciate your candor and response.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by alxndrxvier View Post
    Finally I don't see answering questions as giving up rights. He might be asking to see if he knows as much as you about the current laws, which in most cases he probably doesn't. He might be asking to ensure that you know what you are doing and that you are doing it correctly and safely, so that he can educate you if necessary. Both situations are perfectly reasonable and, frankly, I would welcome encounters like this.
    There are two distinct attitudes that a police officer will approach you with intent to start a conversation. First is the "official duty" attitude. If I'm getting this, it's not ok with me and I'm likely to try and turn my back and walk away right then. The other is a casual, friendly,"I'm on duty and board" attitude. If I'm approached like this I'm likely to maintain a friendly but short convo. Neither way do I feel compelled to justify myself just because he has a uniform.
    What sort of man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter.

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  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Levi View Post
    There are two distinct attitudes that a police officer will approach you with intent to start a conversation. First is the "official duty" attitude. If I'm getting this, it's not ok with me and I'm likely to try and turn my back and walk away right then. The other is a casual, friendly,"I'm on duty and board" attitude. If I'm approached like this I'm likely to maintain a friendly but short convo. Neither way do I feel compelled to justify myself just because he has a uniform.
    Levi,

    Thank you for your input. That is similiar to what I was trying to say. Though it appears as if I didn't get my point into words as well as I thought. I didn't mean to imply that you need to justify yourself or your actions to the officer. Frankly that is not a good idea. Even if you are breaking the law and the officer is arresting you, they can use everything you say to try to build a case against you, possibly adding additional charges based on what you say. Keep quiet until you talk to your attorney. However, in my experience, if you are polite to the officer in question and do not give him reason, through action or simple rudeness, to do more than ask a couple of questions, and assuming you aren't activtely breaking the law, most police officers will tend to leave you alone and let you go about your business. The thing to keep in mind in a situation like this is that even though you don't believe the uniform makes a difference, he most likely does, and that is where the problem lies. You haven't done anything wrong by walking away in a situation like this, as you aren't breaking the law, he isn't asking for assistance while in pursuit of a suspect, etc. However the officer might see it as disrespect to him personally or to police in general. Finally you have to realize that when an officer is in uniform he is on duty. Period. And just like in any other profession, you have nice guys and jerks. Unfortunately the jerks in uniform have guns and handcuffs and are allowed to use them.

  22. #72
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    So if i want to open carry my pistol while i go on a hike and camping tomorrow i can as long as its not concealed?

  23. #73
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odin Ud View Post
    So if i want to open carry my pistol while i go on a hike and camping tomorrow i can as long as its not concealed?
    Welcome to OCDO.

    Short answer is "yes" - provided that you are not an otherwise prohibited person and obey all laws applicable. This thread was started for precisely the reason of answering such general questions and to provide the links/laws so that anyone could determine for themselves. You should avail yourself of that opportunity.

    Concealed carry is hardly open carry so there is a fundamental disconnect with the specific wording of your question. The minute that you conceal it, you are no longer open carrying.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  24. #74
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Well,,,

    Quote Originally Posted by Odin Ud View Post
    So if i want to open carry my pistol while i go on a hike and camping tomorrow i can as long as its not concealed?
    I will also say Hi! welcome to OCDO...
    I dont know why grapeshot wrote, but said nothing of import.

    Washington state welcomes all those 21 and older to Open carry where ever it is legal to do so... even when camping.
    Study rcw 9.41.060 (8) to find that when camping, and other outdoor activities,
    even those 18 thru 21 can open and conceall carry!

    go to the cop shop or sheriff and get this booklet for free,,, "Firearm safety the law and you"
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

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    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

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  25. #75
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    I will also say Hi! welcome to OCDO...
    I dont know why grapeshot wrote, but said nothing of import.
    --snip--
    The OP asked, I answered. Last time I checked that was permissible.

    Why the public slight?
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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