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Thread: Unwelcome Visitors On My Property

  1. #1
    Regular Member gis's Avatar
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    Unwelcome Visitors On My Property

    About 9 A.M. this morning one of my outside motion sensors went off. Everyone here has at least ten aceres, so houses are very far apart. Unlike the indoor sensors, the outside ones do not produce a loud audible alarm, just alert me on the console and my Blackberry. My wife and I were getting ready to get out of the house and the dogs were indoors due to the heat. I looked out the window and saw several figures in the far corner of my property. The binoculars revealed two women with two kids (toddlers) apparently taking pictures. Since they were about 50 yards away from the Battlefield National Park fence, I assumed that they were park tourists. There are plenty of Private Property No Tresspassing signs that couldn't be missed.

    After I made contact, I discovered that it was one of my neighbors (whom I had only met once before) and her kids' photographer who decided that they wanted to take pictures of the kids by my pond. They must have walked through the national park and snuck on my preperty from the back. I did not display a firearm, but was very stern and pointed out to the neighbor that her behavior endangered her entire party. I also pointed out that I have multiple levels of security including firearms, dogs and electronics, and that future violation of my property rights will be handled more severely. I was not specific. They left quickly without escalation and looked sufficiently shaken up. After calling another neighbor to share the story, I found out that this woman is, shall we say, a moron who does stupid unpredictable things going back 5-6 years. Well, long live Darwin!

    Oh, and yes, the story is relevant, since weapons were carried, albeit concealed. :-)

  2. #2
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    I feel for you. I don't have any neighbors (at least for a couple of miles) Dog hunters are my cross to bear.

  3. #3
    Regular Member buster81's Avatar
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    She doesn't sound very bright.

    Out of curiosity, what kind of a motion system are you running?

  4. #4
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by buster81

    Out of curiosity, what kind of a motion system are you running?
    This brand works well!

  5. #5
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    Motion Sensors on Ten Acres in Prince William County??

    How do your sensors discriminate between people and deer? I would imagine that they are constantly going off!

  6. #6
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
    This brand works well!
    Last edited by peter nap; 06-28-2010 at 07:55 AM.

  7. #7
    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    Thumbs down Over-reaction

    Quote Originally Posted by rugerdon View Post
    How do your sensors discriminate between people and deer? I would imagine that they are constantly going off!
    My immediate thought as well. So much so I thought this post was BS till I saw the join date / post count.

    ---
    You were within your rights, but you were also an ass.
    You threatened a woman with her kids:
    "...security including firearms, dogs and electronics, and that future violation of my property rights will be handled more severely."

    Firstly, the NO TRESPASSING signs. In reality these are for strangers/outsiders. You will often find neighbors feel exempt. I'm not saying its smart, it's just one of those community things. You'll need to incorporate that into your security.

    Secondly, scaring a woman and her kids. All this dummy heard from you was " GUN, DOG, , HANDLED SEVERELY, ." Maybe it wasn't your intention, but you threatened to shoot / maim a woman and her kids.

    All this required was a polite, cordial and neighborly conversation. Somewhere after the initial pleasantries and during talking about the weather, a gentle and face-saving admonition would have been effective. Something along the lines of "next time you stop by give me a ring first, so I can make sure the dog is inside, he's a little protective." or "he's not good around kids."
    If for some reason you didn't ever want her on your property again, you could politely make excuses if she calls you. A few times of that and she'll take a hint.

    pro-carry and pro-property doesn't mean anti-social or anti-community.

  8. #8
    Regular Member gis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by buster81 View Post
    She doesn't sound very bright.

    Out of curiosity, what kind of a motion system are you running?
    It's Optex Rednet technology. Was done by one of the better experts in the field. There are some false alarms, but minimal.

  9. #9
    Regular Member gis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rugerdon View Post
    How do your sensors discriminate between people and deer? I would imagine that they are constantly going off!
    I am not technical enough to explain how all this works, but my understandiong is that the computer analyzes a number of factors including the speed, pattern of motion, size, and radiated temperature of the target, etc. and decides whether it's a valid threat or not.

  10. #10
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    Good fences make good neighbors.

    Good fences make good neighbors.

  11. #11
    Regular Member gis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simmonsjoe View Post
    My immediate thought as well. So much so I thought this post was BS till I saw the join date / post count.

    ---
    You were within your rights, but you were also an ass.
    You threatened a woman with her kids:
    "...security including firearms, dogs and electronics, and that future violation of my property rights will be handled more severely."

    Firstly, the NO TRESPASSING signs. In reality these are for strangers/outsiders. You will often find neighbors feel exempt. I'm not saying its smart, it's just one of those community things. You'll need to incorporate that into your security.

    Secondly, scaring a woman and her kids. All this dummy heard from you was " GUN, DOG, , HANDLED SEVERELY, ." Maybe it wasn't your intention, but you threatened to shoot / maim a woman and her kids.

    All this required was a polite, cordial and neighborly conversation. Somewhere after the initial pleasantries and during talking about the weather, a gentle and face-saving admonition would have been effective. Something along the lines of "next time you stop by give me a ring first, so I can make sure the dog is inside, he's a little protective." or "he's not good around kids."
    If for some reason you didn't ever want her on your property again, you could politely make excuses if she calls you. A few times of that and she'll take a hint.

    pro-carry and pro-property doesn't mean anti-social or anti-community.
    A few points for you to consider:

    1. I have only met this woman once during the bad snow we had last winter. I did not remember her, and she certainly should have had no expectation of exemption from my No Trespassing signs. I have other neighbors that I socialize with and know well, who definitely have exemption from my No Trespassing signs, but they still call me when they want to come over. I do the same.

    2. When I talked to the woman, I took her to the side, while the other woman who doesn't even live here took care of both kids. It was a private one-on-one conversaton, and I certainly was not an ass. I was stern, but cordial and respectful, and did not raise my voice.

    3. I threatened noone. I do not htreaten people. I react and respond to threats against me. In this case there was no threatening behavior, so there was no force response. I am a former cop and know how to talk to people to get my point across.

    4. I also want no liability for anything that may happen on my property related to this woman or her kids being there. For example, if one of her kids drowns in my pond or sneaks onto a hot shooting range is not something I want to contemplate. I do not want anyone on my property who doesn't have my permission to be there. I made my point very clear. Also, I do not "hint". I make my points very directly, especially where my rights and my privacy are concerned.

    5. There were no "cuss" words used. I am not sure where you got that.

    6. I don't mind being neighborly. In fact, I told her that if she had asked for permission to take some pictures by my pond, I would have gladly given it. Since instead she and her party chose to sneak on my property from the back (based on which motion points were activated), I decided that she did not deserve consideration and needed to leave.

    7. Anti-social and anti-community, in my opinion, apply to her and not to me. My neighbors caught her previously on their property and were equally stern with her. This was my turn, and I do not believe that she will be back. I usually give people one chance in life, and if they screw up, they are out. She is persona non-grata as far as I am concerned.

    There is by the way a reason that I live on fenced 20 acres, and not in a subdivision. The main one is that I don't want to deal with stupid people that I have had to deal with before I retired.
    Last edited by gis; 06-28-2010 at 04:15 PM.

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    Gotta agree with simmonsjoe on this one. I understand you hold your land sacred, as you should. From what you posted on the board, it sounds like you went way overboard. To bring up guns, dogs, and that things will be "handled more severely" for a future violation, seems way overboard, especially on a woman and children (neighbors) who just wanted a few pics near your pond? They obviously weren't there to disturb you or cause any problems. You should have been neighborly and discussed why you wish they not come upon your land in a pleasant manner instead of threats. If there were more future issues, then maybe I could see bringing up guns/dogs/harsh reactions.

    In fact, you would not have the legal right to even pull a gun on them in reality, unless you could explain that a woman and her small children taking pictures near your pond would cause you to fear for your life or serious injury...so I don't even know why you would mention that to them. Stick to your guns for situations that call for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NovaCop10 View Post
    Gotta agree with simmonsjoe on this one. I understand you hold your land sacred, as you should. From what you posted on the board, it sounds like you went way overboard. To bring up guns, dogs, and that things will be "handled more severely" for a future violation, seems way overboard, especially on a woman and children (neighbors) who just wanted a few pics near your pond?.

    We were just... we just want... blah blah blah blah blah. That's how more and more trampling of anything that anybody holds sacred gets started. Weren't you leaving this board because you got tired of trolling and people arguing with you as a result?

  14. #14
    Regular Member gis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NovaCop10 View Post
    Gotta agree with simmonsjoe on this one. I understand you hold your land sacred, as you should. From what you posted on the board, it sounds like you went way overboard. To bring up guns, dogs, and that things will be "handled more severely" for a future violation, seems way overboard, especially on a woman and children (neighbors) who just wanted a few pics near your pond? They obviously weren't there to disturb you or cause any problems. You should have been neighborly and discussed why you wish they not come upon your land in a pleasant manner instead of threats. If there were more future issues, then maybe I could see bringing up guns/dogs/harsh reactions.

    In fact, you would not have the legal right to even pull a gun on them in reality, unless you could explain that a woman and her small children taking pictures near your pond would cause you to fear for your life or serious injury...so I don't even know why you would mention that to them. Stick to your guns for situations that call for it.
    I wouldn't even think of pulling a gun in a situation like that, but certainly didn't want them there either. But, if my dogs were out, these people certainly would not have gotten a friendly welcome from them. Remember, I had no clue who they were, as the one woman's house is a mile away. They had to walk a mile throught tall grass with lots of ticks, snakes, etc. just to get where I found them. So far I've talked to my two neighbors on either side of me. One had thrown her out from her proterty a few years back, and the other said that I was too polite with her. Some of the facts I have since learned about her from the neighbors (which are not for a public forum) reinforce my belief that I did not go overboard. I didn't know it at the time, but she is known in the area as someone that people try to stay away from.
    Last edited by gis; 06-28-2010 at 06:31 PM.

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    Regular Member zoom6zoom's Avatar
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    You can bet that if her kids got in your pond and were injured or drowned she wouldn't lose any time taking action against you, so it's appropriate to enforce your signage and to document the incident.

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    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    Life, Liberty, Property
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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gis View Post
    After calling another neighbor to share the story, I found out that this woman is, shall we say, a moron who does stupid unpredictable things going back 5-6 years. Well, long live Darwin!
    Sometimes it is nearly impossible to overstate just how much of a role this can and should play in an interaction such as this.

    TFred

  18. #18
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curtis View Post
    We were just... we just want... blah blah blah blah blah. That's how more and more trampling of anything that anybody holds sacred gets started. Weren't you leaving this board because you got tired of trolling and people arguing with you as a result?
    +1

    Joe, it's a good thought but as the country has rapidly become the newburbs, I'm afraid the old days of being neighborly are pretty much gone. The simple liability aspect is enough to keep everyone out.

    I don't know the lady in question but the description immediately brings to mind one that moved near me and started truck farming. Without going into detail...she died a few years ago....and it still makes me happy I outlived the bi$%h.!

  19. #19
    Regular Member altajava's Avatar
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    You need one of these on your vehicle.
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    Over Reaction?

    I tend to agree with Simmonsjoe and NovaCop on this one. Just my opinion!

  21. #21
    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gis View Post
    I am not technical enough to explain how all this works, but my understandiong is that the computer analyzes a number of factors including the speed, pattern of motion, size, and radiated temperature of the target, etc. and decides whether it's a valid threat or not.
    Wow that is pretty cool. Sounds much more advanced than just old school motion sensors.

  22. #22
    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    Unhappy

    Quote Originally Posted by gis View Post
    A few points for you to consider:

    1. I have only met this woman once during the bad snow we had last winter. I did not remember her, and she certainly should have had no expectation of exemption from my No Trespassing signs. I have other neighbors that I socialize with and know well, who definitely have exemption from my No Trespassing signs, but they still call me when they want to come over. I do the same. [I agree]

    2. When I talked to the woman, I took her to the side, while the other woman who doesn't even live here took care of both kids. It was a private one-on-one conversaton, and I certainly was not an ass. I was stern, but cordial and respectful, and did not raise my voice.

    3. I threatened noone. I do not htreaten people. I react and respond to threats against me. In this case there was no threatening behavior, so there was no force response. I am a former cop and know how to talk to people to get my point across. [I understand you may not of intended to threaten her, but people don't always hear things the way we say them.] [How cops talk is not how neighbors talk]

    4. I also want no liability for anything that may happen on my property related to this woman or her kids being there. For example, if one of her kids drowns in my pond or sneaks onto a hot shooting range is not something I want to contemplate. I do not want anyone on my property who doesn't have my permission to be there. I made my point very clear. Also, I do not "hint". I make my points very directly, especially where my rights and my privacy are concerned. [Very reasonable concerns, the fact you use the property for live-fire is definitely something you should mention.]

    5. There were no "cuss" words used. I am not sure where you got that. [The charecter was used as in 'blah blah blah' because what you say, and what she heard, are different things.]

    6. I don't mind being neighborly. In fact, I told her that if she had asked for permission to take some pictures by my pond, I would have gladly given it. Since instead she and her party chose to sneak on my property from the back (based on which motion points were activated), I decided that she did not deserve consideration and needed to leave. [Harsh but reasonable]

    7. Anti-social and anti-community, in my opinion, apply to her and not to me. My neighbors caught her previously on their property and were equally stern with her. This was my turn, and I do not believe that she will be back. I usually give people one chance in life, and if they screw up, they are out. She is persona non-grata as far as I am concerned. [You must be a lonely person, as even prophets from God make mistakes. If this is true, that you don't know how to forgive people, you are a hypocrite.]

    There is by the way a reason that I live on fenced 20 acres, and not in a subdivision. The main one is that I don't want to deal with stupid people that I have had to deal with before I retired.
    OK. So this more detailed explanation was intended to come off a little better than your first post? Trying to explain where we misconstrued your generalities? You did gain a few points, but then you lost a few.

  23. #23
    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    +1

    Joe, it's a good thought but as the country has rapidly become the newburbs, I'm afraid the old days of being neighborly are pretty much gone. The simple liability aspect is enough to keep everyone out.

    I don't know the lady in question but the description immediately brings to mind one that moved near me and started truck farming. Without going into detail...she died a few years ago....and it still makes me happy I outlived the bi$%h.!
    Good point. This is one of those aspects I overlook quite often. I grew up and live in an area on the water, where we have always had huge gatherings of friends/family. We usually bring a level of crazy that means there's a trip to the ER once a year (nothing life threatening). Nobody has ever tried to shift responsibility from themselves. If being litigious conscious means I've got to be a jerk, I'm not sure of the risk/reward. I think I'd rather live by example to others, even if that puts me at risk of litigation.

  24. #24
    Regular Member tcmech's Avatar
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    gis, I don't care what anyone says, if they say you are an ass, it's your property , and it's your right to be an ass if you want. Anyone who does not want you to treat them that way should not trespass.

    Personally I not believe you were an ass and I think you were perfectly within your rights to do as you say you did.

  25. #25
    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcmech View Post
    gis, I don't care what anyone says, if they say you are an ass, it's your property , and it's your right to be an ass if you want. Anyone who does not want you to treat them that way should not trespass.

    Personally I not believe you were an ass and I think you were perfectly within your rights to do as you say you did.
    Why do people always confuse rights with privileges? Having a right to be an ass only protects you from GOV'T interference. You still have to deal with the consequences to your actions from fellow citizens.

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