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McDonald, Due Process, and The right to BEAR arms in MD?

Dreamer

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Sep 23, 2009
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Grennsboro NC
I think you might be acting a LITTLE dramatic here... Fight or flight from 3 letters? Come on dude, it's not THAT bad...



I've been in graphic design, advertising, and PR for 20 years. This is my field of professional expertise.

Yes, in fact, it IS that bad.

Because this term has been SCIENTIFICALLY ENGINEERED to create exactly that effect.

Believe me. I know how this works. Shaping public opinion on certain topics, and using words and images to evoke specific subconscious results in consumers has been my bread and butter for 2 decades...

If PR doesn't work, then explain why people buy a Lexus? Why would any rational person pay Mercedes Benz prices for a dolled-up Toyota?

Public Relations, my friend...

The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the public is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country.' --Edward Bernays, the "father" of Public Relations
 
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Gray Peterson

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Lynnwood, Washington, USA
Dreamer,

I'll admit that I loathe the term CCW, but trying to police people against saying it on a continual basis is an exercise in futility. People will do what they want, and they generally don't like people telling them what to do.
 

Dreamer

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Grennsboro NC
Insanity is defined as doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results each time...

I'm not telling people what to do. I'm just telling them that what they are doing is HUGELY self-defeating. I'm letting folks know that this one little thing is a part of the larger picture of ways that the gun rights movement is being manipulated--with out even knowing it--from the outside, by people who want to take those rights away.

People can continue to use the term, shooting themself in the foot every time they attempt to engage the other side in rational debate which is IMPOSSIBLE when you use the terms that the other side has defines, and has programmed with negative emotion for decades. Yeah, THAT's an effective strategy...

But in another 10 years, when MD still doesn't have Shall Issue and has effectively banned the private ownership of ALL handguns, and the People continue to elect racist, classist sociopathic power freaks that ONLY serve their Bankster masters, I WILL be standing in the middle of the town square shouting "I told you so..."
 
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press1280

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Eastern Panhandle,WV ,
<<SNIP...>>


The term "CCW" is POISON in terms of Public Opinion. We in teh 2A world know what is meant, but WE aren't the people who need to change. It's the general public--and in MD that is a WHOLE LOT MORE people than the 2A community. And for them--the people who don't care about 2A rights, or the people who are against 2A rights--the term "CCW" is POISON. We need to stop using it. It evokes a VISCERAL response in the public. It subconsiously activates a "fight or flight" response based on decades of conditioning through the media that has taught them that ANYONE who is associated with CCW MUST be a criminal.

Just use the proper term for the permit. How hard is that? Use "PTCH"--it's one extra letter, for chrissake. Are you SO hell-bent on saving ONE LETTER when you type that you would rather use a loaded, poisoned term that is GUARANTEED to work AGAINST your cause, than just typing ONE MORE FREAKING LETTER?



I think you might be acting a LITTLE dramatic here... Fight or flight from 3 letters? Come on dude, it's not THAT bad...
I assume most, even on a gun board, may not get "PTCH". As far as the public goes, you ask them about "Open Carry," and they don't know what you're referring to. But "Concealed carry," now they know what you're talking about. From what I read, many people assume openly carrying is a crime, even with a permit. All permits nationwide allow for concealed carry(and some open carry as well).
If I'm speaking to someone who doesn't know any better I'll explain more than "CCW". On the gun boards, "CCW" is understood to include ALL permits.
 

XD40coyote

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woman stuck in Maryland, ,
Most "gun people" know what you mean. But most "antis" and uneducated have been brainwashed for DECADES through movies, TV shows, and news reports to associate the term "CCW" and Carrying a Concealed Weapon" with a CRIME. The media has ONLY associated this term with a criminal act for decades--they NEVER use it to describe a lawfully carried firearms.

So when Concealed Carry activists use this term when speaking to non-gunnies, it will IMMEDIATELY and WITHOUT FAIL evoke a feeling of fear, suspicion, and loathing from them, because they've been programmed by decades of media use of this term in a criminal context.

What?

I was born and raised in MD, and except for 2 years in PA, have lived in this state my whole life. If one is going to be bombarded by anti gun BS, MD is def one state to have it happen, or at least if you live in the central part. Let me re-say that- I was born and raised in CENTRAL MD/BALTIMORE...there that's a lil better.

Ok, now where is this heavy propaganda about liscensed concealed carry being naughty and dirty and akin to... eating babies and crushing kittens? In central MD, if the media even mentions legal "CCW", it is like seeing an albino platypus. It just plain ISN'T mentioned, except maybe on FOX 45 News at 10. I'm not going to get into what FOX 5 covers out of NoVA. Judging by youtube and searching " open carry", I saw FOX 5 being fair and balanced about OC in VA.

Ok, back to Baltimore, which basically influences the rest of the central MD conglomerate, and allows too many asshats to get elected and go to Annapolis every spring. I've never seen anything spewing from Baltimore to paint legal "CCW" as dirty and baby eating. In fact, it is nonexistant. THEY don't discuss it. If THEY don't say anything, then it doesn't exist, right?

Oh nooooes...now this group called MSI emerges and OMG there is also teh Internets!11!! Now people might hear about legal "CCW", and even worst that dreaded " open carry" might even be mentioned!11!! What are THEY going to do now? Ah, ok, so now bad press about "CCW" might start dribbling down from the anus of THEM. But it didn't "exist" until recently.

If you are refering to Hollywood, I sure don't see much mention of legal citizen "CCW" from these folks. You see Hollywood is like THEM, it doesn't exist because Hollywood stands almost mute on it. A few episodes of "CSI Whatmyass" with some rogue gun owner or a biker gang leader with a " CCW", isn't exactly what I'd call an influence. I mean in "CSI Miami", it is as if there is no such term as " shall-issue", and as if FL is southern Commiefornia. Oh and the escaped psycho slasher film industry would die if all the cheerleaders or football team captains had guns and ammo and knew how to use them.
 

Hendu024

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Virginia Beach, Virginia, USA
I've been in graphic design, advertising, and PR for 20 years. This is my field of professional expertise.

Yes, in fact, it IS that bad.

Because this term has been SCIENTIFICALLY ENGINEERED to create exactly that effect.

<<SNIP...>>


Do you have any proof of this? I am genuinely intrigued by that statement, and I would like to know more about it. Honestly, it sounds a little crazy to me. Like tinfoil hat crazy...
 

XD40coyote

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Messages
706
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woman stuck in Maryland, ,
Perhaps it is subliminal? Well...whatever, hasn't worked on me. Seems the more the MSM machine gets rolling on gun issues, the more "gun activist feeling" I get.
I've been in graphic design, advertising, and PR for 20 years. This is my field of professional expertise.

Yes, in fact, it IS that bad.

Because this term has been SCIENTIFICALLY ENGINEERED to create exactly that effect.

<<SNIP...>>


Do you have any proof of this? I am genuinely intrigued by that statement, and I would like to know more about it. Honestly, it sounds a little crazy to me. Like tinfoil hat crazy...
 

Dreamer

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Grennsboro NC
Do you have any proof of this? I am genuinely intrigued by that statement, and I would like to know more about it. Honestly, it sounds a little crazy to me. Like tinfoil hat crazy...

OK, let's start with the whole "tinfoil hat" thing...

It has been proven by researchers at MIT's advanced physics department that tinfoil hats actually AMPLIFY certain frequencies. And it just so happens that the frequencies it amplifies most are RESTRICTED by the FCC for use ONLY by the DOD and the intelligence community for use in microwave-based communications and spy satellites.

http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/


So technically, if you DO wear tinfoil hats because you're afraid of the "mind control rays" from government satellites, the tinfoil will actually make the signals STRONGER.

So let's dispel that little bit of slander as either REALLY bad research on the part of truely clinically paranoid people, or active disinformation planted in the "conspiracy community" by the government themselves...


Secondly, if you aren't aware that there has been a scientific, active program of PR-based socio-political manipulation for the better part of the last century in the US, the UK, and most of the Western World, then you're just not reading the right books...

For example, let's look at the works of Carrol Quigley. He was a Harvard-educated Ph.D in History. HE taught at Princeton, Harvard, and Georgetown University at their "School of Foreign Service", where among other things, he was the academic mentor of Bill Clinton. While at Georgetown, Quigley was hired by the Council on Foreign Relations as their official "Historian", and tasked with cataloging and documenting their history in a more formal manner. In this research, he uncovered a rather interesting story, that ended up becoming a series of books documenting the century-long plans to completely overthrow Western Democracy, destroy the middle class, and return the Western World to what essentially amounts to Rule by Nobility.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carroll_Quigley

Read "Tragedy and Hope", and "The Anglo-American Empire" by Carroll Quigley. There is proof enough in those two books for almost every statement I've made on this topic...

And if a Ph.D. from Harvard and tenured professor from Georgetown isn't good enough for you, then look into the writings of Edward Bernays, the "father of Public Relations". Bernays was writing in the early 20th century, and among other things, he was the nephew of Sigmund Freud. His books "Propaganda", and "Crystallizing Public Opinion" are ESSENTIAL reading for anyone interested in how PR really works, and how governments, corporations, and NGOs can use advertising, "spin", and historical revisionism to mold public opinion and policy...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays

Read these four books, and THEN come back and we'll talk about who's REALLY wearing the tinfoil hats...
 
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Dreamer

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Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Messages
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Location
Grennsboro NC
For instance, the CDC understands the power of PR, and has even published a "guidebook" for anti-tobacco activists, telling them how to use PR, manipulate the media, and use local, low-budget, low tech tactics to get media coverage for their efforts.

The 2A movement can learn a LOT for these types of "manuals". Check it out:

http://tinyurl.com/2ao568r


Check out what "SourceWatch" has to say about the big PR companies:

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Public_relations_firms
 

25sierraman

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2010
Messages
144
Location
Alexandria , Virginia, USA
OK, let's start with the whole "tinfoil hat" thing...

It has been proven by researchers at MIT's advanced physics department that tinfoil hats actually AMPLIFY certain frequencies. And it just so happens that the frequencies it attenuated most are RESTRICTED by the FCC for use ONLY by the DOD and the intelligence community for use in microwave-based communications and spy satellites.

http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/


So technically, if you DO wear tinfoil hats because you're afraid of the "mind control rays" from government satellites, the tinfoil will actually make the signals STRONGER.

...

Kind of off topic here but Attenuation is the opposite of Amplification soooo wouldn't that make the tinfoil hat guys right because it Attenuates (weakens) the restricted signals that are only used by the DOD?
 
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Dreamer

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Grennsboro NC
Kind of off topic here but Attenuation is the opposite of Amplification soooo wouldn't that make the tinfoil hat guys right because it Attenuates (weakens) the restricted signals that are only used by the DOD?


You're right. I used the wrong word...

Tin foil hats attenuate signnales above 1.5 GHz. (that includes cell phone signals). But they AMPLIFY signals between 1.2 and 1.4 GHz--the band used mostly for GPS satellite signals...

OP has been edited to reflect this.

Sorry about that...
 
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25sierraman

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2010
Messages
144
Location
Alexandria , Virginia, USA
You're right. I used the wrong word...

Tin foil hats attenuate signnales above 1.5 GHz. (that includes cell phone signals). But they AMPLIFY signals between 1.2 and 1.4 GHz--the band used mostly for GPS satellite signals...

OP has been edited to reflect this.

Sorry about that...

It's cool im just a SATCOM nerd..... :) Interesting stuff though with the tinfoil. I wonder what my 1sg would say if i came into work like that with a tinfoil hat in the shape of my beret?
 

Sonora Rebel

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IMHO... MD is never going to get anywhere by concentrating on the damned 'permit'. It's ingrained in the collective psyche that you can't carry w/o a 'permit'. There seems to be a major disconnect that rights don't require permission. This is the statists ideology that the government grants everything. In mind-blowing dialoge with some 'persons' involved in MD... they sound like the anti's. Rights do not flow from the bench. Rights are pre-existiting. DENIAL and CONTROL flows from the bench. Rights are not granted by government. Government does not have rights... government has AUTHORITY. Such authority is at the behest of the governed... not the other way 'round.

Y'know what I've found nearly universal among Marylanders? They don't... (or can't) read. Moreover, they can't process what they read. Anything more than a line or two becomes incomprehensible. I had several of 'them' school 'me' that my right to carry a gun was gained by others who 'fought for the right to do so in Arizona. Duhhh... Arizona has never denied the right in it's 57 years as a Territory... not it's 99 years as a State. The Constitution was ratified in 1783. The only 'gun grabbers' were the Earps during their short tenure in Tombstone. The OK Corral fight was a result of that. 41 states in the Union recognize RKBA. The key word here is 'recognize'... not allow.

Xenophobia/Myopia in that little piece of real estate is endemic. The rest of the nation owes NOTHING to Maryland in regard to RKBA. RKBA was omitted from Article 28 (MD Bill of Rights) during the Constitutional convention of 1867 to keep arms out of the hands of former slaves. That piece of business has never been contested until now... by SAF (Wollard vs Maryland). There has never been a referendum for RKBA placed on the ballot in 143 years. The MD State Constitution has no provision for self defense. Maryland is not the paragon of 2A that some would claim... it is rather a servile tool of the oppressors that these fools keep re-electing time and again but expecting a different result. 'Shall Issue' is, on it's face a failure to understand what RKBA entails. 'How 'bout 'No Issue'? How 'bout the recognition of the free exercise of a pre-existing right w/o government infringement? That idea seems beyond comprehension to Maryland... a national anomoly by any measure. If RKBA is ever realized in MD... it sure won't be because of certain local efforts.
 
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press1280

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One step at a time. Once shall-issue is established and doesn't cause "blood in the streets," then you can try for constitutional carry. The MD legislature would never pass that on their own, and it would be foolish to try to put a constitutional carry lawsuit through the courts right now.
 

Sonora Rebel

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Though Maryland is not Arizona, Arizona got concealed carry without license after 14 years.

Um... prior to '94... people just 'carried'. The permits came about for reasons of reciprocity... and as a money maker (admittedly). There was argument at the time that the whole permit thing was not in line with the state Constitution. ('The right of the people to keep an bear arms in defense of themselves or the state shall not be impaired') NM didn't get permits 'til 2004. You can still get and renew the CWP... but within the borders of the state it's not required for those over 21. Under 21 (18 and up...) it's OC only... still no permit.

The precedent for no 'blood in the streets' has already been established in so many other states it's a near nonsensical argument. Y'all are still asking permission from 'massa' to do something that's a civil right. Do not elect the same schmucks or the same types of schmucks over an over and over again... Maryland has been an appendage of DC since Lincoln occupied the state by force in 1861. It's been run by a never ending series of Quislings ever since.

PG and MoCo ... and Balto City... are the tail that wags the dog. The MD legislature can go suck eggs. The US Constitution was ratified in 1783. The 2A is part of the Bill of Rights... (1st 10 amendments)The Constitution is the law of the land. All laws must be in agreement with the Constitution or they're flat illegal from the day they were written. You don't need any new laws... just get rid of the unconstitutional crap you have. The Governor has the authority to do that. Issue a Cease and Desist to the MSP... Void the process. MD has no self defense provision in it's Constitution... so the US Constitution is the driving legal force. The 2A has been incorporated against the states... it's not a fantasy. You already have the right... and that right is illegally denied. Don't beg for scraps... Take it all! It's your right... not their contrivance of permission.
 
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XD Owner

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Arlington, VA
Dreamer, How do you feel about the abbreviation CHP?

Since you do not like CCW, how about CHP? No, not Califonia Highway Patrol. Concealed Handgun Permit.

I see merits to both sides, the "exercise all of your rights now" argument, and the "baby steps" first get Shall Issue, then Constitutional Carry like AZ, AK and VT.

I do not want to be a test case in Maryland and get thrown in jail for open carrying in Annapolis, so I hope those lawsuits change the behavior of the Maryland state government.

Thanks for the info about public relations. I suspect you are right.
 

junglebob

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Oct 28, 2006
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Location
Southern Illinois, Illinois, USA
Since you do not like CCW, how about CHP? No, not Califonia Highway Patrol. Concealed Handgun Permit.

I see merits to both sides, the "exercise all of your rights now" argument, and the "baby steps" first get Shall Issue, then Constitutional Carry like AZ, AK and VT.

I do not want to be a test case in Maryland and get thrown in jail for open carrying in Annapolis, so I hope those lawsuits change the behavior of the Maryland state government.

Thanks for the info about public relations. I suspect you are right.
How about LTC, license to carry. It gets away from negative conotations of "concealed". Or RTC legislation for shall issue legislation. We're using these terms in Illinois to help get LTC passed here. People get licenses for all kinds of things, driving a car, practicing medicine, roofing buildings, private investigators license. The word license conotes training being involved, and meeting certain standards.
 

Dreamer

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I maintain we need to be accurate in our discussion of the various licenses issued. Almost every state has their own name for these "permission slips"...

Maryland, like PA doesn't even USE the word "concealed" in or "weapon" on their card--it is called a "Permit to Carry a Handgun". There is no requirement in MD law that you carry concealed. Technically, OC is perfectly legal in MD if you have a Permit. (however, some of the urban counties and cities have restrictions on "public display of a firearm"...)

http://www.usacarry.com/maryland_concealed_carry_permit_information.html

NC calls is a CHP.

PA calls it a "License to Carry Firearms" (LtCF)

VA calls it a CHL.

SC calls it a CWL.

NY calls it a "Pistol License", and makes no stipulation as to CC or OC, but the state-issued licenses are not valid in the Separatist Nation-State of NYC, unless you have special permission from the Police Commissioner of the City.

OH calls it a LtCCH (License to Carry a Concealed Handgun).

and on and on and on...

These permits/licenses are all over the map with regards to their nomenclature, limitations, reciprocity, and applicability to weapons other than handguns.

The real issue isn't that people are calling them a name that is ONLY mentioned in Statute as being a CRIME (although that IS a serious issue and needs to be stopped, IMO). The real issue is that unlike other permits and licenses (like drivers licenses, licenses to practice law or medicine, etc) there is absolutely NO uniformity state-to-state for issuance, recognition, validity, or procedure for LE when dealing with permit holders in non-threatening encounters.

But first, I maintain we need to stop describing out lawful, legal permits by a name that is ONLY used in Statute to describe a crime.

Then, maybe people might take us seriously about getting things like nation-wide reciprocity, uniform issuance, or even (the ultimate goal) NH-style Constitutional Carry.

Words have meaning. We create our reality by the way we describe our perceived reality. So lets stop calling CC permits by a name that is a crime. Use the CORRECT name for the specific state you are discussing. It's not hard to figure this one out, just go here and look it up:

http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_carry_permit_information.html

This isn't rocket science, folks...
 
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