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Thread: OCing in New London First LE encounter

  1. #1
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    OCing in New London First LE encounter

    I work 3rd shift and on the weekends still stay up all night. This last weekend, I was bored and took my dog for a walk at about 2am, then again at 7, both times I was OCing. After getting back to my house the second time, I left, without my gun to go get breakfast. Two police officers came in while I was eating and came to me, asked me if I was carrying, and I said no. They said they knew it was legal, and asked me for ID, I let them have my I.D. then they left.

    I thought it was strange though, because when I first came hear and found out the rules, both me and a friend we're interested in carrying, he was still skeptical about the city having a code banning carrying. So I called the police, the officer told me I would be charged $300 and my firearm would be evidence, and after mentioning the state statute said, "If you're going to get all nit-picky quoting statutes you'll have to call our lawyer who writes the codes." Do you think even if they know it is legal, when asked they just tell people they cannot do it?

    All in all when it came down to it my interaction with the police was pleasant, other than the food started getting cold while speaking with them.

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    Great job!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheyjam View Post
    I let them have my I.D. then they left.
    WOW!!!!!!!!! A great consensual stop and not a legal leg to stand on. Great job.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_an...80.9D_statutes

    968.24 Temporary questioning without arrest. After
    having identified himself or herself as a law enforcement officer,
    a law enforcement officer may stop a person in a public place for
    a reasonable period of time when the officer reasonably suspects
    that such person is committing, is about to commit or has committed
    a crime, and may demand the name and address of the person
    and an explanation of the person’s conduct. Such detention
    and temporary questioning shall be conducted in the vicinity
    where the person was stopped.
    Last edited by Doug Huffman; 06-29-2010 at 10:53 AM.

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    Campaign Veteran rcawdor57's Avatar
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    In that situation I would not have complied.

    Good job open carrying! In the situation you described there is absolutely no reason in my opinion to even speak with them. No laws were broken and no crime committed, about to be committed or in progress. You still have your 4th amendment right to privacy. When I am not carrying I still have my holster on. Last week I ate with my family in a local restaurant and a few people noticed the "empty holster". One guy approached me and we talked about open carry which he is interested in doing. The police often eat in this restaurant but that day I did not notice any. If I had been questioned by police for simply wearing a holster I would respectfully decline to speak with them. And, based on what is transpiring at the moment even if I am carrying I would most likely never provide them with my identification or tell them anything since I do not have to.

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    I don't understand what you're saying Doug.

    rcador, I felt it was best to show my I.D. in the situation, even though I did not need to. Living in a smaller town, already looking "suspicious," I don't feel like being pulled over for going 3 mph over the speed limit. If I lived in a larger city, where I wouldn't see the same cops almost every day, I would most likely not have given I.D. In my situation, I feel it was best I complied with their request.

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    Campaign Veteran rcawdor57's Avatar
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    Thumbs up I understand what you are saying.

    We all react differently when we encounter police. Heck, the first time a deputy asked me if I was LEO while carrying I told him "Nope" and a few seconds later he asked me a different question which by me answering actually provided my name to him even though I never said my name. LOL. These guys and gals are crafty and they have to be to get the information they desire or demand. So, now I am very careful what I say and try to think through every answer before I say anything (for my next encounter with LEO).

    If we are not breaking any laws then why should LEO want to know anything about us? Do they stop every person they see driving a vehicle and ask them to prove they have a drivers license, registration and insurance? Imagine if they did do that. How long would that go on before law suits were filed? Also, I look at it this way: We are exercising a right protected by the Wisconsin state constitution AND the 2nd Amendment. Our rights outweigh their curiosity or their "need" to know who I am and where I live. I would rather be arrested just like others have been and not give up my rights to those who want to subjugate us. We have to change the way law enforcement and the public view us. We are peaceful people out exercising our rights, not criminals. We are in a new "Civil Rights" era in Wisconsin and the U.S. for the right to keep and bear arms.

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    A request for ID is satisfied orally. We enjoy only Rights defended!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheyjam View Post
    I don't understand what you're saying Doug. Living in a smaller town, already looking "suspicious," I don't feel like being pulled over for going 3 mph over the speed limit.
    I live in an Island town of <800 with two cops.

    Day before yesterday I got my Passport Card and my driver's license went into the "registration, insurance and driver's license please, Sir" folder.

    A request for ID, even under 968.24 already quoted, is satisfied orally. Your papers can be legally seized only after you are in custodial detention/arrest - same as your gun.

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    An aside.

    I just noticed that the "last edited" bug only appears after some time delay from the original post.

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheyjam View Post
    Do you think even if they know it is legal, when asked they just tell people they cannot do it?
    You should never ask a LEO for legal advice. They are legally allowed to lie.

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    Yea, disappointing that the police would lie to people on things like this or other things.

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    Thumbs up Small Towns

    I'll agree with not being to much "in your face" when living in a small town. I know some will say they are still trampeling on your rights, but an advisary in your Local Police Department could make your life hell. A pleasant exchange will be known throughout the town soon. Small town talk is unbelievable and establishments like "Bucky's" are usually the center for gossip.

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    Founder's Club Member Brass Magnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ayce2 View Post
    I'll agree with not being to much "in your face" when living in a small town. I know some will say they are still trampeling on your rights, but an advisary in your Local Police Department could make your life hell. A pleasant exchange will be known throughout the town soon. Small town talk is unbelievable and establishments like "Bucky's" are usually the center for gossip.
    Exercising your rights and being pleasant need not be mutually exculsive.
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    I can't wait until we civilians can question LEO on why they are smoking in certain public places. I have to wonder if they will be legally able to smoke in the squad car. maybe then they will get the point as to how intrusive it is to approach every OCer and ask for ID. We will have to be diligent with our video cameras so they will receive citations as well.

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    Regular Member ayce2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brass Magnet View Post
    Exercising your rights and being pleasant need not be mutually exculsive.
    I absoultey agree, but I can only account for my own behavior, not how the LEO will respond to the refusal of what he feels is a normal request.

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    Founder's Club Member Brass Magnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ayce2 View Post
    I absoultey agree, but I can only account for my own behavior, not how the LEO will respond to the refusal of what he feels is a normal request.
    That's what voice recorders are for. If he decides to act like an Ahole and the OC'er is doing nothing but politly exercising his rights at least it's on tape.

    The point of the matter is that we really do need to train the LEO's that our polite denial to show our "papers" means that we indeed do know our rights. Not only that, the LEO's need a refresher on where their power ends and our rights begin.

    I'm not picking on Cheyjam here. Cheyjam can decide whether or not he gives up his rights but he should do so understanding what it is he is giving up. Without realizing the gravity of the situation an informed decision on what to do here is impossible. It needs to be understood that the more we exercise our rights, the more the police will know them and realize that ignoring them has consequences. Among those consequences are civil rights lawsuits that can't even start if you consent to the LEO's requests.

    It's no different than training a dog. If you let him keep jumping on you [asking for ID], eating your furniture [not asking if you're free to go], or pooping on your floor [consenting to searches] he's going to keep doing it. Not only that, but he'll poop on other peoples floors jump on them and eat their furniture too.

    Exercising your rights, though seemingly troublesome for you at that moment, not only makes it better for you but better for everyone else too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brass Magnet View Post
    Exercising your rights, though seemingly troublesome for you at that moment, not only makes it better for you but better for everyone else too.
    I like that, good stuff.

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    Campaign Veteran rcawdor57's Avatar
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    I agree!

    Quote Originally Posted by Brass Magnet View Post
    That's what voice recorders are for. If he decides to act like an Ahole and the OC'er is doing nothing but politly exercising his rights at least it's on tape.

    The point of the matter is that we really do need to train the LEO's that our polite denial to show our "papers" means that we indeed do know our rights. Not only that, the LEO's need a refresher on where their power ends and our rights begin.

    I'm not picking on Cheyjam here. Cheyjam can decide whether or not he gives up his rights but he should do so understanding what it is he is giving up. Without realizing the gravity of the situation an informed decision on what to do here is impossible. It needs to be understood that the more we exercise our rights, the more the police will know them and realize that ignoring them has consequences. Among those consequences are civil rights lawsuits that can't even start if you consent to the LEO's requests.

    It's no different than training a dog. If you let him keep jumping on you [asking for ID], eating your furniture [not asking if you're free to go], or pooping on your floor [consenting to searches] he's going to keep doing it. Not only that, but he'll poop on other peoples floors jump on them and eat their furniture too.

    Exercising your rights, though seemingly troublesome for you at that moment, not only makes it better for you but better for everyone else too.
    Your last sentence is extremely well said and meaningful. We must all pull together and fight for our rights, not surrender them at will. Remember what happened in Germany before WW2? Keep that in mind.

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    Thanks for posting your experience. I also live in the small river town of New London and was just asking myself what would happen if i started to OC while in Town. your experience is exactly why we need to have a CC law in the state of Wisconsin. I wonder what would happen if a few of us Gun Enthusiasts and law abiding citizens if we had an open carry BBQ. i can only imagine that county and city LEOs would be on the seen in a good hurry.

    On a different note if you want to go eat at "Bucky's" i guess that is your own choice maybe you have been eating there for years and like many people have been meeting/eating and discussing a great number of things over coffee there for years but me personally I will stick to eating at the NL family diner

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    Regular Member BROKENSPROKET's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clay View Post
    I wonder what would happen if a few of us Gun Enthusiasts and law abiding citizens if we had an open carry BBQ. i can only imagine that county and city LEOs would be on the seen in a good hurry.
    Why would you think that? They would know its a OC picnic/bbq, not a MWAG.

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    i say that because despite it being legal i still think people have a tendency to wig out a bit when someone is carrying a firearm and dose not appear to supposed to be doing so I.E. LE security guards and people who work on a brinks style truck. someone called the police on the poster why else did they meet him at the local eatery. which means someone wigged out because a man doing the most harmless of all activity's of walking his dog called the police on him simply because that man had a gun on him. apparently people seem to think that someone carrying a gun in plain sight is up to no good. no matter what he is going the guy could probably be saving a baby but if he had a gun on him they probably would make him out to be a bad guy.

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    I'll disagree Clay.

    First, CC wouldn't make a difference at all. I carry a .45 and in the hot summer, it would be impossible to carry my .45 without printing. Some oversensitive uneducated person would still call LEO, so CC won't matter. We need to continue to OC to desensitize the public in general.

    An OC picnic/BBQ in New London would be an EXCELLENT idea. You get lots of local press coverage, it makes the local papers and TV, and people LEARN OC is what they should expect, they get desensitized.

    If you and the OP want to get together and organize a picnic, PM me, I'd be glad to give some pointers and help out.

    That goes the same for ANYBODY ELSE! If you want to organize a picnic, PM me and I'd be glad to work with you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bnhcomputing View Post
    I'll disagree Clay. First, CC wouldn't make a difference at all. I carry a .45 and in the hot summer, it would be impossible to carry my .45 without printing. .
    Nyaah. CCW only South Carolinians CCW year around without their weapons visible that must be carried in a manner that is hidden from public view in normal wear of clothing. My CCW is the same size as a .45 USPc and I never felt conspicuous.

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    Regular Member BROKENSPROKET's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clay View Post
    i say that because despite it being legal i still think people have a tendency to wig out a bit when someone is carrying a firearm and dose not appear to supposed to be doing so I.E. LE security guards and people who work on a brinks style truck. someone called the police on the poster why else did they meet him at the local eatery. which means someone wigged out because a man doing the most harmless of all activity's of walking his dog called the police on him simply because that man had a gun on him. apparently people seem to think that someone carrying a gun in plain sight is up to no good. no matter what he is going the guy could probably be saving a baby but if he had a gun on him they probably would make him out to be a bad guy.
    Without even looking at your post count, I can tell you are new here. And I can tell you don't OC. IF you did, your assumptions would be found to be not true.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brass Magnet View Post
    SNIP Exercising your rights, though seemingly troublesome for you at that moment, not only makes it better for you but better for everyone else too.
    +10

  24. #24
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    buying a pack of smokes would warrant wigging? grocery shopping would warrant wigging? pumping gas would warrant wigging? drinking coffee at a cafe would warrant wigging?

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by McX View Post
    buying a pack of smokes would warrant wigging? grocery shopping would warrant wigging? pumping gas would warrant wigging? drinking coffee at a cafe would warrant wigging?
    What does "wigging" mean? I'm not familiar with the term.

    (But, please don't tell Grapeshot I said so. )

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