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Thread: Hermosa Beach Patch - Open carry hermosa Beach litter pickup is on for July 10, 2010

  1. #1
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    Hermosa Beach Patch - Open carry hermosa Beach litter pickup is on for July 10, 2010

    http://hermosabeach.patch.com/articl...local-gun-laws

    SNIP

    10 Things to Know About Local Gun LawsHermosa Beach resident and gun rights activist Harley Green answers questions about the organization he founded and his plan to bear arms while picking up trash.
    By Jacqueline Howard | Email the author | 6:37am Close new

    . . .

    Add Cities across the country are now taking a closer look at local gun-control laws after the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that all law must adhere to an individual's right to bear arms, in a 5-to-4 decision on Monday. Community gun rights activist group South Bay Open Carry applauded the verdict.

    The case, McDonald vs. City of Chicago, mirrored when the court ruled that the Second Amendment fully protects an individual's right to own guns in District of Columbia v. Heller two years ago. But with this week's new decision, the court said that strict local ordinances could be seen as unconstitutional and challenging the Second Amendment.

    Currently in Hermosa Beach, residents follow the state law, which allows anybody to publicly carry an unloaded gun. Members of South Bay Open Carry plan to demonstrate this allowance by carrying unloaded weapons as they clean up trash around Hermosa Beach on July 10.

    Harley Green, the organization's 24-year-old founder, met with police chief Greg Savelli last week to inform officers of the upcoming event. Green explained in an interview what the organization hopes the city and police will learn from the upcoming demonstration and his sentiments toward local gun-control laws:

    Patch: Next month members of your organization plan to carry unloaded guns while picking up trash around town. Can you tell me more about this and how the event even came about?

    HG: The event came about based on my and others take on the need to educate the public about responsible gun ownership and the rights all Californians have to defend themselves. Additionally, regular citizens have become frustrated with government leaders who continually infringe on law-abiding citizens rights to defend themselves.

    Since open carrying of a firearm has always been legal in California it seemed like a great legal way to demonstrate our rights while easing the general public back into the notion of respecting the second amendment.

    . . .

    The South Bay Open Carry cleanup event will begin at 11 a.m. on the corner of 8th Street and Valley Drive, moving toward The Strand.
    ---
    See also more news coverage at http://www.dailybreeze.com/news/ci_15395425
    Last edited by Mike; 06-29-2010 at 01:14 PM.

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    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
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    Excellent article. It's nice to see some press without the FUD from the anti's.
    A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The right‘s existence is all the reason he needs.

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    Ocean Beach (san diego) is the same. Legal carry on the boardwalk right next to the sand....just don't put a single toe on the beach. However, that was before the State and Federal park law changed...this indeed needs clarification. If the beach is a state beach/park, UOC should now be legal.

    I should have Tuesday off, I'll be there if I do.

    Does LAPD patrol H-Beach too? I'd love to run into them again
    Last edited by Army; 06-30-2010 at 12:10 AM.

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    Regular Member Don Tomas's Avatar
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    Keep going Harley! I think he's doing a great job in Hermosa Beach.

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    if the beach is

    a State Park Beach it will be off limits.

    National Park beach will be ok

    city/county, you must find out from local

  6. #6
    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
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    Check out this link. No shooting allowed....nothing about UOC'ing

    http://www.hermosabch.org/department...tml#lifeguards
    A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The right‘s existence is all the reason he needs.

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    Regular Member wewd's Avatar
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    If the beach is considered a park, you cannot bring a firearm there by LA county ord.

    17.04.620 Firearms and other weapons.
    A person shall not bring into, discharge, or shoot any firearms, air gun, slingshot, or bow and arrow in any park except at areas designated for such purpose by the director. (Ord. 10729 § 7, 1973: Ord. 10309 Art. 3 § 34, 1971.)

    Can't shoot any guns on the beach

    17.12.410 Shooting weapons prohibited.
    A person shall not discharge or shoot any firearms, air gun, slingshot or bow and arrow anywhere on a beach. (Ord. 9767 Art. 3 § 34, 1969.)

    That's all I can find for now regarding guns and beaches/parks.
    Do you want to enjoy liberty in your lifetime?

    Consider moving to New Hampshire as part of the Free State Project.

    "Live Free or Die"

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    Regular Member hgreen's Avatar
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    Hey Everyone,
    Thanks for the support.
    I did get clarification from the police chief, they consider it a park land since the city owns the beach in Hermosa.
    So since they have a municipal code banning firearms from all parks and playgrounds they believe the beach is off limits to UOC.

    So for the first event we'll be picking up garbage along the street and then along the strand right next to the beach to the pier plaza. If any of you would like to come help or just show up to support us we would really appreciate it! Get more info at our site www.southbayopencarry.org. Be sure and join our discussion list while you are there!

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    Regular Member hgreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Patriot View Post
    Hmmm, interesting.

    I thought state law superceded city law and that guns were only banned in STATE parks.

    Do you guys have anyone who is going to be video taping everything ? I would like to come down and check it out and video.

    Did you make a determination what you are going to do abotu ID demands from the fuzz ?
    State law does supercede city law. Anyone with cash to front legal fees to challenge this ordinance?

    I don't have anyone confirmed to video tape everything, some of us will carry personal video recorders but they don't capture the entire event well. If you can come down and video the event it would be wonderful!

    I'm encouraging all participants to not carry their ID so that they will have nothing to show if they are asked. Based on my interaction with the chief (yes I know everyone is skeptical about trusting what LEOs say, as they should be) it seems that he's very aware that asking for ID is not allowed. I do not expect it to happen. My personal UOC experience so far in Hermosa has been very uneventful. I've walked right by police officers and have not even been stopped for the 12031(e) check.

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    Not to give hope to violating the law (regardless of how asinine it may be) but the law on the books is merely an infraction, which is not an offense that demands identification. Of course, they could ID you afterwards by pulling you over when you leave in a car but that just means you have to outsmart the cops.

    Harley (as well as most of the internet) is probably quite aware of my aversion to trusting any government agent, particularly local police officers. It seems that there is a significant amount of CYA on this event and that is good, but I am really not very keen on some of the amenities involved, such as giving these officers free feel-ups and (potentially) using maps that have been drawn up by the police department showing lawful carry areas. Hermosa Beach is an arms throw from LA and we ALL know how much of a friend ScrewBaca has been to gun owners and if you think that the HB chief is not at all interested in screwing over an OCer, you are in for a big surprise.

    BTW, PM inbound to you, Harley.

    CARRY ON!

    -N8

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    Regular Member Mike Hunt's Avatar
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    Harley, why the no-show? Army, Mrs. Hunt & I waited around 'till about 1245 and saw no carriers whatsoever. Army was even 1/2 hour early.

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    Regular Member hgreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Hunt View Post
    Harley, why the no-show? Army, Mrs. Hunt & I waited around 'till about 1245 and saw no carriers whatsoever. Army was even 1/2 hour early.
    ?? The event is July 10th, always has been.
    Make sure you join our discussion list (http://lists.southbayopencarry.org/l...yopencarry.org) and monitor our events page: http://www.southbayopencarry.org/events/

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    Regular Member Mike Hunt's Avatar
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    O.K., I see that now. However, the title of this thread says the 6th. Wish someone would've caught that. No biggie for me, as I'm local here, but Army sure drove a long way.

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    Regular Member hgreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Hunt View Post
    O.K., I see that now. However, the title of this thread says the 6th. Wish someone would've caught that. No biggie for me, as I'm local here, but Army sure drove a long way.
    Oh bummer, I just emailed Mike (moderator) to have them change the title.

    Hope you folks can still come on the 10th!

    --Harley

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    Regular Member Mike Hunt's Avatar
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    Yeah, Mrs. Hunt and I are still in, but I don't think Army can make it. See you guys Saturday!

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    But I did carry in Malibu when I stopped at the Jack in the box there.

    Other than a tourist Swedish family staring bug-eyed at me, no-one else seemed to notice or care. Ate my burger and fries there, then got back on the PCH north.

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    Regular Member PincheOgro1's Avatar
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    I have to work. Well, it is a scheduled work day. Things have been slow on the weekends. The problem is I won't know "if" I'm working till early afternoon.and by the time I drive there, it will probably be over.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Patriot View Post
    you know there is a good nude beach in malibu at pt dume. lots of european tourists go there. open carry while nude...now THAT would be a site to see, haha
    I think the holster for the other weapon would chafe.....


  19. #19
    Regular Member PincheOgro1's Avatar
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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by army View Post
    i think the holster for the other weapon would chafe.....

    :d

    army lol

  20. #20
    Regular Member Mike Hunt's Avatar
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    Well done everyone! It was a pleasure to meet up with some noobs as well as some familiar faces. A successful event, I say.

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Sons of Liberty's Avatar
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    Any video or pictures? Any negative contact?

  22. #22
    Regular Member Mike Hunt's Avatar
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    No LEO contact whatsoever. Lots of questions answered and materials handed out to a curious and receptive public. And no "negative Nancys" to my knowledge.

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    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Patriot View Post
    wasnt there a pre-arraigned (e) check with the police prior to the event ?
    Sounds like a reasonable assumption that there wasnt a pre-arranged (e) check if they had no contact with police. I certainly think its a measure of sucess when activities are not pre-endorsed by the constabulary.

  24. #24
    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Patriot View Post
    I have started to think that police departments will change their (e) check policies. Here's why. Its all about lawsuits.
    Lets say police see an armed man walking down the street. He appears to be an "open carrier". Police make contact and do an (e) check. Weapon is found to be unloaded and the man is let loose. 45 minutes later the same man shoots up a restruant. The laywer for the people in the restruant are going to sue the police because the police essentially gave the man "an offical seal of approval".
    I know this sounds like convoluted logic but then again so are most lawsuits and they are spun very well by good trial lawyers.
    If the police get the same call and "search the neighboorhood but couldnt locate suspect" then thats their excuse later on. The police can claim "if we had found him with a gun we surely would have arrested him".
    There have been many many cases where police have been blamed for crimes comitted after a suspect had been detained by the police earlier. Jeffry Dahmer comes to mind. The police were sued in that case and paid a settlement.
    Sounds very convoulted. They can't arrest someone that didn't commit a crime. To avoid a lawsuit, they should arrest all legal carriers?

    If someone is driving down the street and a bee flys in the window and stings them. They cross the double yellow line and get stopped by a cop. He sees the swelling on the end of the drivers nose and lets them go with a warning. They drive 2 miles down the road and run over a pedestrian. No liability there either.
    A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The right‘s existence is all the reason he needs.

  25. #25
    Regular Member hgreen's Avatar
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    The event was a great success.

    I recommend visiting the FB page where we have lots of links to the press reports and pictures of the event. http://www.facebook.com/pages/South-...22802434426757

    There was NO pre-arranged "e-check". No negative police encounters. No "e-checks".

    Lots of great public awareness activities and PR.

    Check out our website for the official speech from the press conference: www.SouthbayOpenCarry.org

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