Whos gonna file suit to force Open Carry in Florida?

Well my permit does not expire until 2016. That's a long time to wait to sue. When does the next session of the state government start?

We're meeting with various state legislators over the next few months to find bill sponsors and supporters.

StogieC said:

We're meeting with various state legislators over the next few months to find bill sponsors and supporters.

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Rep. Kreegel's office has been helping me with a Lee County ordinance/state preemption issue.

Question: Is the goal to have FL go to unlicensed open carry or simply change the CWP to also allow open carry?

For unlicensed carry, I would agree the Murdock case would come in handy.

But, if you look at the cases currently filed by Alan Gura, the state gets to pick between unlicensed/shall-issue open/concealed/both. Since FL has chosen shall-issue CC, I don't see the Federal Courts(or state court) as able to do anything. You'll have to get the legislature to change the law.Even if you did get the permit struck down,the state could still "regulate" the manner in which the firearms are carried.

As far as standing to sue, if FL's application asked for the reason you want a permit(I can't remember if they do or don't), you could put down "To carry openly for self-defense" and see what they do. If they deny you, you'd have standing I presume. I say that because in the Palmer v. DC case, Gura's plantiffs put down on the handgun registration forms that they "Intended to carry in public for self defense." That way they wouldn't need to be arrested for standing. But again, I don't think a court challenge to open carry itself will work right now at least.

press1280 said:

if you look at the cases currently filed by Alan Gura, the state gets to pick between unlicensed/shall-issue open/concealed/both. Since FL has chosen shall-issue CC, I don't see the Federal Courts(or state court) as able to do anything. You'll have to get the legislature to change the law.Even if you did get the permit struck down,the state could still "regulate" the manner in which the firearms are carried.

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What happens when the State suspends or revokes a permit w/o a hearing? Is that due process? Do you have a right to hearing?

What happens when the State suspends, revokes, or fails to issue a permit to a law abiding citizen? Why should a law abiding citizen be denied his rights?

The States will never get rid of permitted carry. It is a money maker. If forced they'll allow open unpermitted carry which they'll regulate and permitted carry which they'll regulate, but not as much. This will give an incentive for people to get a permit and keep money coming into the system.

kwikrnu said:

The States will never get rid of permitted carry.

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Arizona does a week from today.

paul@paul-fisher.com said:

Arizona does a week from today.

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Actually, I think they still have a permit for those who want it. It is hard for gov to get rid of a revenue generator.

kwikrnu said:

Actually, I think they still have a permit for those who want it. It is hard for gov to get rid of a revenue generator.

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Yes, but I assume revenue will drop dramatically. The only reason to get one after next week is for reciprocity.

don't lie, we'll all still go out and vacuum up every permit we can afford. like big kids with their pokeymon cards. gotta have at least one in the wallet for the knob that says: You got a permit for that?

kwikrnu said:

What happens when the State suspends or revokes a permit w/o a hearing? Is that due process? Do you have a right to hearing?

What happens when the State suspends, revokes, or fails to issue a permit to a law abiding citizen? Why should a law abiding citizen be denied his rights?

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How is the apropos to this thread?

Grapeshot said:

How is the apropos to this thread?

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taken from post 24

"Since FL has chosen shall-issue CC, I don't see the Federal Courts(or state court) as able to do anything. You'll have to get the legislature to change the law.Even if you did get the permit struck down,the state could still "regulate" the manner in which the firearms are carried."

I disagree. Federal Courts will look at how permits are issued, suspended, and revoked. In States where a permit is an exception or a defense and carry of loaded firearms is illegal I think the courts will rule that is a violation of a civil right.
The State can't make a civil right illegal. Open and concealed carry in FL, TX and TN is illegal. There are some exceptions and defenses to the criminal activity. States don't make all speech illegal. They don't make religion illegal. Protest is not illegal. There are specific things about speech or protest which may be illegal, but these States won't be able to keep laws which criminalize all rights with some narrow exceptions or defenses.

Originally Posted by kwikrnu
What happens when the State suspends or revokes a permit w/o a hearing? Is that due process? Do you have a right to hearing?

What happens when the State suspends, revokes, or fails to issue a permit to a law abiding citizen? Why should a law abiding citizen be denied his rights?

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Originally Posted by Grapeshot
How is the apropos to this thread?

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Total fail - the thread is about acquiring open carry in Florida - your consistency is amazing. You post OT, ignore the question, then reaffirm your OT quest.

Also from post #24 are these topic lines which you conveniently did not quote:
"Question: Is the goal to have FL go to unlicensed open carry or simply change the CWP to also allow open carry?

For unlicensed carry, I would agree the Murdock case would come in handy ."

Surely you are not suggesting that you were responding to these with your "questions."

Grapeshot said:

Total fail - the thread is about acquiring open carry in Florida - your consistency is amazing. You post OT, ignore the question, then reaffirm your OT quest.

Also from post #24 are these topic lines which you conveniently did not quote:
"Question: Is the goal to have FL go to unlicensed open carry or simply change the CWP to also allow open carry?

For unlicensed carry, I would agree the Murdock case would come in handy ."

Surely you are not suggesting that you were responding to these with your "questions."

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I quoted what interested me in post #24 and replied to that statement. Open carry will eventually be legal w/o a permit because I don't think FL is willing to give up revenue from the concealed permit system. I don't think permit systems which arbitrarily issue, revoke or suspend are constitutional. Nor are the fees, training requirements, fingerprinting, photographs, etc. For these reasons FL will in the near future allow or be forced to allow some type of carry with no permit and that carry will be open carry.

kwikrnu said:

I quoted what interested me in post #24 and replied to that statement. Open carry will eventually be legal w/o a permit because I don't think FL is willing to give up revenue from the concealed permit system. I don't think permit systems which arbitrarily issue, revoke or suspend are constitutional. Nor are the fees, training requirements, fingerprinting, photographs, etc. For these reasons FL will in the near future allow or be forced to allow some type of carry with no permit and that carry will be open carry.

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And that answers the question in post #30 including and referring to the quoted content how?

Excuse me, but I think your agenda is showing.

Grapeshot said:

And that answers the question in post #30 including and referring to the quoted content how?

Excuse me, but I think your agenda is showing.

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Post 30, which quoted post 25, asked how my response related to the thread. Post 25 commented on post 24.

What is my agenda? Tennessee's permit system is based upon TX and FL law. I recently filed a lawsuit against the State of Tennessee for depriving me of my right to carry. I think that the easiest way to get open carry in these States is probably through a court challenge.

kwikrnu said:

What happens when the State suspends or revokes a permit w/o a hearing? Is that due process? Do you have a right to hearing?

What happens when the State suspends, revokes, or fails to issue a permit to a law abiding citizen? Why should a law abiding citizen be denied his rights?

The States will never get rid of permitted carry. It is a money maker. If forced they'll allow open unpermitted carry which they'll regulate and permitted carry which they'll regulate, but not as much. This will give an incentive for people to get a permit and keep money coming into the system.

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I don't think this is accurate. It should be, but it's not.

I'm not sure how, but a lot of people seem to believe that the recent decision deregulates Carry. It doesn't. Poll Tax concepts included, the 2A is always treated like some special exception that is not really a Right. It shouldn't be, but it is. This false premise of 'reasonable regulation' does exist, and means that unregulated carry, or imposition of a Tax on the Right, is allowed. It's bogus, but that is the (dis)logic of it. Florida has no obligation to do anything different from what it is doing right now. You can make the Poll Tax argument if you want, and you're right for doing it, but nobody is listening. Since the false premise of 'reasonable restriction' can be defined as pretty much anything, there is nothing about this decision that precludes perpetuation of things exactly as they are.

To answer the question of the thread title; nobody. As long as the false premise of 'reasonable restriction' exists, it can be redefined to suit almost any degree of regulation with the exception of a total ban. The court has ruled only that a total ban in one's own home is going too far and not 'reasonable.' Nothing more.

People of Florida must be happy with being 'allowed' to buy and beg for a privilege. The 'only ones' elitist attitude that is so ingrained here, considers that to be a good thing. Never mind the "poll tax" concept, never mind 'shall not be infringed.' The People of the State of Florida like it the way it is; a special privilege of the chosen.

ixtow said:

To answer the question of the thread title; nobody. As long as the false premise of 'reasonable restriction' exists, it can be redefined to suit almost any degree of regulation with the exception of a total ban. The court has ruled only that a total ban in one's own home is going too far and not 'reasonable.' Nothing more.

People of Florida must be happy with being 'allowed' to buy and beg for a privilege. The 'only ones' elitist attitude that is so ingrained here, considers that to be a good thing. Never mind the "poll tax" concept, never mind 'shall not be infringed.' The People of the State of Florida like it the way it is; a special privilege of the chosen.

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Well don't lump me into that category. The only thing I like like about having a FL permit is the reciprocal arrangements with 34 other states. The I95 corridor liberals will fight OC tooth and nail. I'm still surprised the guns in your car at work law passed.