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No firearms at a fair?

Bronson

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2008
Messages
2,126
Location
Battle Creek, Michigan, USA
In another thread I noticed this:

The Michigan Department of Agriculture has also promulgated a rule making it unlawful for any person, except authorized peace officers and other persons authorized by law, "to enter upon a fairgrounds and have in his possession any firearm loaded or unloaded." 1979 AC, R 291.208.

My Googlefu is apparently weak because I can't find the actual text of R 291.208 on the web. I'm curious as to their definition of what constitutes a "fair" or if it only applies to state fairs. If anybody has a link I'm sure the assembled masses here would like to read it.

Bronson
 

stainless1911

Banned
Joined
Dec 19, 2009
Messages
8,855
Location
Davisburg, Michigan, United States
I saw the same thing, and was going to inquire, but couldnt recal where I saw it. Thanks for bringing that up.
I would hate to get busted because I went to the traveling fair at the bowling alley parking lot:uhoh:.

ETA, it was in one of the threads in which we were recently discussing the schools issue. It could have been on MGO.
 

Glock9mmOldStyle

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Messages
2,038
Location
Taylor, Wayne County, Michigan, USA
Somebody buy the Gent a drink!

We are all " other persons authorized by law "!

Clap Clap Clap Clap Clap Clap Clap Clap Clap
Clap Clap Clap Clap Clap Clap Clap Clap Clap
Clap Clap Clap Clap Clap Clap Clap Clap Clap
Clap Clap Clap Clap Clap Clap Clap Clap Clap
Clap Clap Clap Clap Clap Clap Clap Clap Clap
Clap Clap Clap Clap Clap Clap Clap Clap Clap
Clap Clap Clap Clap Clap Clap Clap Clap Clap
Clap Clap Clap Clap Clap Clap Clap Clap Clap

A standing ovation for your astute observation Sir! :)
 

Taurus850CIA

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2008
Messages
1,072
Location
, Michigan, USA
Found it.

DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE

FINANCE AND TECHNOLOGY DIVISION

UNLAWFUL ACTS ON STATE FAIR PROPERTIES


(By authority conferred on the commission of agriculture by section 1 of
Act No. 80 of the Public Acts of 1905 and sections 9, 185, and 186 of Act
No. 380 of the Public Acts of 1965, being SS19.141, 16.109, 16.285, and
16.286 of the Michigan Compiled Laws)


R 291.201 Definitions.
Rule 1. (1) "Commission" means the commission of agriculture.
(2) "Director" means the director of the department of agriculture.
(3) "Fairgrounds" means all lands and buildings under the jurisdiction of
the department of agriculture--state fairs division.
(4) "General manager" means the general manager of the Michigan state
fair or the secretary-manager of the Upper Peninsula fair board.
(5) "Guards" means state fair guards, police and watchmen.
(6) "Vehicle means a device in, upon or by which any person or property is
or may be transported or drawn, excepting devices moved by human power.

History: 1979 AC.


R 291.202 Trespass and use without authorization.
Rule 2. It is unlawful for any person to trespass upon, to use, or to
occupy any portion of a fairgrounds or any of the buildings thereof
without the authorization of the commission, director or general manager.

History: 1979 AC.


R 291.203 Disturbances of lawful assemblies.
Rule 3. It is unlawful for any person to make or excite any disturbance or
contention in any building or other part of a fairgrounds where
citizens are peaceably and lawfully assembled.

History: 1979 AC.


R 291.204 Disorderly persons.
Rule 4. It is unlawful for any person to be a disorderly person on a
fairgrounds, including the following: any person who engages in an illegal
occupation or business; any person who shall be drunk or intoxicated or
enaged in any indecent or obscene conduct; any vagrant; any person found
begging; any person who shall knowingly loiter in or about any place where an
illegal occupation or business is being conducted; any person who shall be
found jostling or roughly crowding people unnecessarily, shall be
deemed a disorderly person.

History: 1979 AC.


R 291.205 Resisting officers in discharge of duties.
Rule 5. It is unlawful for any person on a fairgrounds to obstruct,
resist, oppose, assault, beat, or wound any guard or any other person or
persons authorized by law to maintain and preserve the peace, in their
lawful acts, attempts, and efforts to maintain, preserve, and keep the
peace.

History: 1979 AC.


R 291.206 Sale or possession of knives with mechanical opening devices.
Rule 6. It is unlawful for any person on a fairgrounds to sell or offer
for sale or to have in his possession any knife having the appearance of a
pocketknife, the blade or blades of which can be opened by the flick of a
button, pressure on a handle, or other mechanical contrivance.

History: 1979 AC.


R 291.207 Possession by minors of cutting or stabbing instruments.
Rule 7. It shall be unlawful for any person on a fairgrounds under the
age of 21 years to be in possession of any knife, dart, or instrument of
any description that could be used for cutting or stabbing, provided that
this section shall not apply to any such person under 21 years of age
being in possession of any such knife when it is used or carried in good
faith as a tool of honest work, trade, business, sport, or recreation or
when used or carried in good faith as equipment related to and required
for any legitimate sport, recreation or youth character building program
(such as boy scouts or girl scouts) when actively engaged therein or
actively engaged in going to or returning from such honest work, trade,
business, sport, recreation, or youth character building program.

History: 1979 AC.


R 291.208 Possession of firearms or other dangerous weapons.
Rule 8. It is unlawful for any person, except authorized peace officers
and other persons authorized by law, to enter upon a fairgrounds and have in
his possession any firearm, loaded or unloaded, or any other dangerous
weapon, concealed or otherwise. A violation of this rule may result in the
immediate confiscation of such firearm or other dangerous weapon by the
Michigan state police, a state fair guard, or other authorized officer.

History: 1979 AC.


R 291.209 Injury or destruction of property.
Rule 9. It is unlawful for any person to willfully injure or destroy any
public property, real or personal, or personal property of any exhibitor,
concessionaire, lessee, patron, or visitor on the fairgrounds.

History: 1979 AC.


R 291.210 Control of vehicles.
Rule 10. It is unlawful for any person to drive, tow, or place any
vehicle on a fairgrounds, or to park, load, or unload the same, except as
authorized by the commission, director or the general manager. The maximum
speed for any vehicle on the fairgrounds shall be no greater than that
which is safe under the existing conditions, but in any event shall be no
more than 25 miles per hour.

History: 1979 AC.


R 291.211 Littering.
Rule 11. It is unlawful for any person knowingly, without the consent of
the commission, director or the general manager, to dump, deposit, place,
throw, or leave, or cause or permit the dumping, depositing, placing,
throwing, or leaving of litter on a fairgrounds. "Litter" means all
rubbish, refuse, waste material, garbage, offal, paper, glass, cans,
bottles, trash, debris, or other foreign substances of every kind and
description.

History: 1979 AC.


R 291.220 Penalty.
Rule 20. Any person who openly and willfully refuses to conform to any of
these rules, under the provisions of section 2 of Act No. 80 of the
Public Acts of 1905, being S19.142 of the Michigan Compiled Laws, shall be
deemed guilty of a misdemeanor, and upon conviction thereof may be fined
not more than $50.00 or by imprisonment in the county jail of the county
where such offense is committed for a period of not less than 10 days nor
more than 60 days, or both such fine and imprisonment, in the discretion of
the court. The general manager, or the officer in charge of the
Michigan state police state fair unit or of the Detroit police, or of the
guards, may order the immediate expulsion from a fairgrounds of any person
who may refuse to conform to these rules without refund of any funds paid to
the commission and without liability for damages on the part of the state
of Michigan, its agents, officers, and employees, the commission or the
Michigan state police, Detroit police, the guards or police officers
involved.

History: 1979 AC.
 

khicks

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2007
Messages
148
Location
inkster, Michigan, USA
this rule was put in to place in 1979, if i am reading this thing right. preemption of 1990 wiped the part of not carrying a firearm at the state fair off the slate
 

DrTodd

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,272
Location
Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
this rule was put in to place in 1979, if i am reading this thing right. preemption of 1990 wiped the part of not carrying a firearm at the state fair off the slate

IMHO, preemption would not "wipe this out", as this rule is made by The Michigan Department of Agriculture, which is "state level".

The Concealed Pistol Licensing Act (Act), 1927 PA 372, as amended, MCL 28.421 et seq, regulates the possession and carrying of concealed pistols. The Act prohibits persons from carrying a concealed pistol unless they have been licensed in accordance with the provisions of the Act. Section 5c(2), MCL 28.425c(2), provides that licensees may carry a concealed pistol "anywhere in this state," subject to certain exceptions found in section 5o and "except as otherwise provided by law."

As written, I believe that Zig is correct, the rules ONLY apply to The State Fair.

However, AG Cox SEEMINGLY argued, in Opinion 7123, that it would be against the law to carry a pistol on fairgrounds... not just state fairgrounds, all fairgrounds. The pertinent part states:
An examination of the Michigan laws dealing with the possession of firearms discloses several additional instances where the prohibition of firearms is "otherwise provided by law." Among these is 2001 PA 225, MCL 259.80f, effective April 1, 2002, which prohibits the possession of a firearm in the "sterile" (i.e., secure) area of a commercial airport. In addition, the Michigan Supreme Court, in Administrative Order 2001-3, 464 Mich 1xxv, has, with certain exceptions, prohibited the possession of a weapon in any courtroom or facility used for official business of the court. A person violating the order may be held in contempt of court. The Michigan Department of Agriculture has also promulgated a rule making it unlawful for any person, except authorized peace officers and other persons authorized by law, "to enter upon a fairgrounds and have in his possession any firearm loaded or unloaded." 1979 AC, R 291.208.

The argument of CPL holders being "authorized by law" would be valid, IMHO, however the AG Opinion seemingly throws that argument in doubt, too. Perhaps Mr. Cox has become more "Pro 2A" since this time, but his opinion seems to throw doubt on a CPL holder's ability to carry on a fairground.:(

So, although I think that it only applies to the state fairgrounds, AG Cox appears to believe it covers all fairgrounds.


EDIT: It appears that, since "fairgrounds" is defined as "all lands and buildings under the jurisdiction of
the department of agriculture--state fairs division" the power, and therefore, the rules of the Commission DO NOT APPLY to other fairgrounds, other than the state fair... so I believe even more so than I originally posted that Zig is correct:


MICHIGAN EXPOSITION AND FAIRGROUNDS AUTHORITY ACT (EXCERPT)
Act 361 of 1978


285.163 Fairs and uses of fairgrounds to which act inapplicable.
Sec. 3.

(1) This act does not apply to the Upper Peninsula state fair conducted under 1927 PA 89, MCL 285.141 to 285.145.

(2) This act does not apply to a fair conducted by a county of this state, or to a fair conducted under the official authorization of the county board of commissioners or other duly constituted county regional authority.

(3) This act shall not apply to uses of fairgrounds permitted under 1941 PA 80, MCL 285.151.
 
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