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Thread: US Post Office Open Carry. Gray area or not?

  1. #1
    Regular Member MarineSgt's Avatar
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    US Post Office Open Carry. Gray area or not?

    I've always heard that carrying in a Post Office is a no no. Looking at 18 USC 930 it seems that self-defense would fall under "other lawful purposes". What say ye?

    Link to 18 USC 930 http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/ht...0----000-.html

    Edited to Add:

    39 CFR 232.1 says:

    (l) Weapons and explosives. No person
    while on postal property may carry
    firearms, other dangerous or deadly
    weapons, or explosives, either openly
    or concealed, or store the same on
    postal property, except for official purposes.

    What is considered "official purposes"?

    More food for thought:

    Concealed-carry in Post Office may lead to rude awakening: http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/Conce...rude-awakening
    Last edited by MarineSgt; 06-29-2010 at 06:59 PM.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Taurus850CIA's Avatar
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    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ht=post+office

    This is not the thread in particular I was looking for, but it should help. I saw a very long and drawn out discussion on this topic, but I think it may have been on MGO. I'll keep looking.
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  3. #3
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Post office is like all other Federal property with one exception. The parking lot is included if they own it.

    So don't take your firearms there OC or CC...

    The really dumb part is they allow you to ship long arms and FFL's can ship pistols... this administrative rule is dumb but it is enforceable as proven by a court case... I cannot seem to find it right now.. but maybe someone else has it bookmarked.
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    Did you ever notice this, atleast at the few I have gone into that the notice/sign telling you that no weapons are allowed on premises is half way inside. Not on the front door.

  5. #5
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    Gray area? The only gray part will be your prison bars.

    (That was just a colorful comment. Not to be taken literally. Colorful. Gray. Get it? Hahaha. I crack myself up sometimes.)

    While there has been plenty of discussion across the entire RKBA world, nobody is willing to be a test case.

  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    no gray area. if you can ship a rifle through usps legally, then you can legally posses a firearm on usps property.
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

  7. #7
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    USPS has its own regulation banning guns even in parking lots

    See http://www.examiner.com/x-2782-DC-Gu...c-parking-lots

    18 USC 930 does not apply to parking lots - only buildings - please read statute - this statute sets minimum floor; federal agencies often then promulgate regulations which are more strict than 18 USC 930 and include even parking lots.

  8. #8
    Regular Member erb's Avatar
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    Oops, I CCed at two USPS today.

  9. #9
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Gray area? The only gray part will be your prison bars.

    (That was just a colorful comment. Not to be taken literally. Colorful. Gray. Get it? Hahaha. I crack myself up sometimes.)

    While there has been plenty of discussion across the entire RKBA world, nobody is willing to be a test case.
    +1

    I thought everyone already KNEW that USPS buildings and parking lots (IF they are the sole owner) are a definite BOZO-NO-NO for carrying OC or CC...
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    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
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  10. #10
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    notice

    Quote Originally Posted by jdgypsy View Post
    Did you ever notice this, atleast at the few I have gone into that the notice/sign telling you that no weapons are allowed on premises is half way inside. Not on the front door.
    my post office in belfair does NOT have any notices concerning firearms at all,, inside or outside!!
    also these words appear in statutes in many states, cities, towns, counties!!

    (3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

    this is an often used exemption to firearms restrictions, it is in thousands of laws,
    i think now with Heller and Mcdonald, these words can and will be used to secure our right keep and bear arms EVERYWHERE!!!
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  11. #11
    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    Seems to me it is perfectly legal. I plan on doing it later today in fact to mail the mortgage payment (although my chicken sh*t @ss will be CC), although I have in fact OCed in many post offices (but I was in uniform ).
    "Bam, I like saying bam when I cite something, in fact I think I shall do this from here on out, as long as I remember.
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  12. #12
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    Question

    What about #3, 'other lawful purposes'?



    (d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to—
    (1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;
    (2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or
    (3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

  13. #13
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    For what it's worth, here's the opinion of the MCRGO "staff lawyer" on this question:


    Q: Is it legal to carry in US Post Offices? From what I have read, I understand that the Federal Law says you cannot carry illegally. If you have a CPL in Michigan, then you are carrying legally.

    A: Federal law (18 USC 930) prohibits the possession of firearms in a federal facility but has some exceptions. One exception is " (3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes."

    I think that subsection 3 exempts lawful CPL holders. I have argued this with my postmaster and United State Postal Service inspectors. I have not convinced them. I am not willing to bet a year of my life in a federal prison that a judge will agree with me and not them, so I do not carry in a post office.

    My best advice is not to carry in a post office unless you and your postmaster first agree that it is legal.

    http://www.mcrgo.org/mcrgo/d_ccwfaq2.asp

  14. #14
    Regular Member malignity's Avatar
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    +1 agreeing that it's okay to carry in a post office, due to the 'other lawful purposes' clause.

    I'm not sure if I trust MCRGO though, to be honest. They have/had something posted stating that if a no firearms sign is posted at a specific location, you can be charged with criminal trespass if you carry. I suppose you could technically be charged with it, but I really can't see it sticking if it was an honest mistake. This is neither here nor there, however, it was just something I read that erked me and made me question the site.
    All opinions posted on opencarry.org are my own, and do not necessarily reflect the views of opencarry.org or Michigan Open Carry Inc.

  15. #15
    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by malignity;1297846They have/had something posted stating that if a no firearms sign is posted at a specific location, you can be charged with criminal trespass if you carry. I suppose you could technically be [I
    charged[/I] with it, but I really can't see it sticking if it was an honest mistake. This is neither here nor there, however, it was just something I read that erked me and made me question the site.
    I can't remember where I read it but it has happened in other states. A prominently displayed sign was considered sufficient notice of the property owner's wishes. There has been no court case in MI on this to provide us with case law but that doesn't mean it can't happen.

    Bronson
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