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Thread: 7 mile

  1. #1
    Regular Member erb's Avatar
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    7 mile

    I carry a Kimber Raptor II Pro in a holster in my pocket, CC. You can tell I have something there, but it is not obvious what.

    Anyways, I was walking a block south of 7 mile. A beat up blue crown vic stopped as I approached the street to cross. There were 3 guys starring me down - one looked like a thug.
    - my initial instinct told me they were undercover cops -
    but the way they were lookin at me pissed me off

    So I exchanged looks and said "What the f*(k are you lookin at?"
    One of them said something about a gun as they said "Hold up" and got out of the car, at this point I was in the middle of the street going my way.

    I said "Hell ya I'm carrying"

    One of the officers gently took my hands and placed them on my head. One started saying stupid sh|t about how I should have said I was carrying earlier than I did - as if I knew they were cops.

    My attitude continued as the cop behind me patted my left pocket. I said "Are you trying to accomplish something?" I was about to get real pissed if he frisked me.
    He said he wanted to see if I had a CPL. I said, "Sure, no problem".
    Two went in their car to run my CPL/ID.
    I said to the remaining cop (with an attitude) "Lookin for dope?"
    He said, "Nope, lookin for guns"
    My attitude did a 180. I was thrilled. So many illegal guns in stupid hands where I live.
    I started a convo with they cop, talked about guns, my 1911, work, and the fact that my house was broken into. Before they left, he asked for my address and said they'd keep a lookout. AWESOME!

    I just joined this forum after I realized it was legal to OC in MI. I still don't understand it all, there is a lot to know, JFC!

    I don't even know what I want to ask so I'll just stick with sharing the story.

    Anyone from Detroit care to comment?

    - i must say, being the only white person walking the streets, i don't feel any racial prejudice from anyone
    Last edited by erb; 06-30-2010 at 12:48 AM.

  2. #2
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    glad to have you on-board


  3. #3
    Regular Member cmdr_iceman71's Avatar
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    Welcome

    Welcome to the forum and yes you are lucky the LEOs didnít act more like A-holes and ticket you for failure to disclose when initializing the stop/detainment. Although I agree with you in your initial indignation, in that you werenít sure if they were LEOs (Law Enforcement Officer) or three thugs looking for an easy mark to rob. Given that you were walking down 7 mile in Detroit, your response was most appropriate. lol

    I encourage you to read the sticky threads: Rinse, Wash and Repeat as well as many other older threads. It took me about two weeks of dedicated reading, researching and understanding the various Federal and State laws in many of the threads on this website before I felt confident enough to step out and OC for the first time. But once you do OC, youíll find it is worth the effort.
    "Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth." - President George Washington

    "Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." - Thomas Jefferson

    "He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." - Thomas Paine

  4. #4
    Regular Member kyleplusitunes's Avatar
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    if you have a CPL, the basic rules of OC for you are, Open Carry anywhere you would normally conceal, and know that you can open carry in MOST (look up which) pistol free zones, with your CPL, in places you can not conceal, such as bars (if you are not over the limit, i prefer not drinking at all)

  5. #5
    Regular Member kyleplusitunes's Avatar
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    was it these guys?

    http://www.freep.com/article/2010060...troit-for-guns

    also, I'd never let someone get in 3-5 feet in the dark of me, who looks like a thug in a bad area of detroit, without first identifying, and showing proof of being a police officer, if plain clothed, keep that in mind for future encounters

  6. #6
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    Ida drew on um..

  7. #7
    Regular Member erb's Avatar
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    Well now I'm thinking about this a little more...
    If they had done that at night, and I ran, and a couple ran after me - I WOULD FEAR FOR MY LIFE.
    Also, my ankle has been messed up for a few months, so I'd probably take cover and draw/shoot. That's a horrible scenario to play out.

  8. #8
    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erb View Post
    I just joined this forum after I realized it was legal to OC in MI. I still don't understand it all, there is a lot to know, JFC!
    Yes, there are some things you should understand and know, if you are going to open carry. Your behavior is taken by most of the public as representative of gun owners. Whether you like this fact or not, you must govern your conduct to prevent it from reflecting poorly on all other gun owners and the open carry movement, else we suffer socially and politically. Also, your SA (situational awareness) should never allow you to assume a stranger is a "good guy" or a police officer and allow them in a position of advantage on you.

    While open carrying:
    --Never say "What the f*(k are you lookin at?" to anyone. Do not be hostile or confrontational toward anyone, unless they are a threat to your life, period.
    --Never assume someone in plain clothes is a plain-clothes officer, even if they say they are or act like they are. Ask for identification.

    You seem in need of some improvements before you should consider OC'ing. Your shortcomings I point out could result in harm not only to the public perception of gun owners and OC, but also to your physical well-being as well.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Welcome Erb!

    Working from your post of the events during your encounter....

    When during the course of events did those guys identify themselves as LE? And... did they show a badge or ID as LE... or did they just say they were cops?

    I don't know about anyone else but a beat up car with thuggy looking guys in it aggressively confronting me without showing physical ID of being LE with my having an opportunity to examine that ID... will NOT be treated as LE. Quite the contrary! Because anyone can just say they are LE............. and still be a thug intent on committing nefarious deeds.

    About that "examining ID"... just flashing a badge for an instant without my having the ability to see if it identifies an officer of the law or is just one of those silly "concealed carrier badges" or a cracker jack prize isn't going to impress me one bit. I would, and will, demand to examine that ID before things go any further.

    Edited to add:
    I agree with DanM.... a person OC'ing is an ambassador for gun rights and should always behave in a polite and responsible manner. Demanding to see LE's identification can be done in a polite manner....
    Last edited by Bikenut; 06-30-2010 at 10:18 AM.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  10. #10
    Regular Member erb's Avatar
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    I completely understand about being responsible, calm and a model citizen. I would never act like I did there if I was OC.
    Personally, carrying keeps me inline and away from trouble. I don't drink, I don't involve myself in road rage and I don't speak my mind (my brutal honesty can come across as aggressive/offensive). I often just ignore stupid sh|t instead of getting into.
    Carrying makes me feel safe - but in no way will I put myself in harms way because of it.

    I pretty much assumed they were cops when they got out (as my hunch indicated when I was 20ft away from the corner). But they never had any ID/badge that I saw. So [legally] they couldn't arrest me for not disclosing that I had a CPL - I didn't know they were the police... right?

  11. #11
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    My question is... why did you let guys who never showed a badge or ID frisk you and then tell them where you live and give them ID and CPL?

    They could have been a very creative group of criminals...
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  12. #12
    Regular Member erb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by autosurgeon View Post
    My question is... why did you let guys who never showed a badge or ID frisk you and then tell them where you live and give them ID and CPL?

    They could have been a very creative group of criminals...
    He frisked my left pocket and stopped when I asked him if he was trying to accomplish something (I thought that was funny).
    I made a mistake and have learned from it. This is a good site.

  13. #13
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Good That is why I asked what I did! I wanted to make sure you realized that they were in the wrong... although your attitude possibly had something to do with them doing what they did.

    Undercover police can be a pain to deal with as they usually don't want to break cover... however they shouldn't be doing possible felony stops on a public street either IMOP. There are too many chances for a fatal interaction!
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  14. #14
    Regular Member erb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by autosurgeon View Post
    Undercover police can be a pain to deal with as they usually don't want to break cover... however they shouldn't be doing possible felony stops on a public street either IMOP. There are too many chances for a fatal interaction!
    Cars driving down from 7 mile had to turn around because the undercover car was in the middle of the road. Not sure their strategy there.

  15. #15
    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erb View Post
    Cars driving down from 7 mile had to turn around because the undercover car was in the middle of the road. Not sure their strategy there.
    Intimidation, they think they are in the SS and work for The Furer Himself.
    "Bam, I like saying bam when I cite something, in fact I think I shall do this from here on out, as long as I remember.
    Bam!" - eastmeyers

    "Then said he to them, But now he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his sack: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
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    God Bless

  16. #16
    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erb View Post
    I completely understand about being responsible, calm and a model citizen. I would never act like I did there if I was OC.
    Ok, good to hear you're thinking about it already, although I would suggest that cultivating your demeanor to be non-hostile and non-confrontational at all times, including when you're not OC'ing, makes it into a habit that has less of a chance of being dropped when you are OC'ing.

    Welcome aboard and good luck! Know the law and be a good ambassador when you're OC'ing, and I hope to meet you at a gathering soon.

  17. #17
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    An attitude like that while CC or OC is unacceptable. Picking a fight with a car full of guys is completely irresponsible. Why would you ever tell anyone in plain clothes you are carrying a gun, especially after you asked them what the f&$@ they were looking at?? Everything you said to those guys sounds like you wanted a fight. Be sure to let me know when you are out for a walk so I can stay in a different zip code.

  18. #18
    Regular Member erb's Avatar
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    I admitted that I made mistakes, if you read all the posts.
    I don't believe Detroit shares the same zip as Eastpointe, so I think you're good.

    As for picking a fight, it sounds like you're not familiar with the demeanor in Detroit around that area.

  19. #19
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dougwg View Post
    Ida drew on um..
    but we all know you never would have been on 7 mile
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
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  20. #20
    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erb View Post
    I admitted that I made mistakes, if you read all the posts.
    I don't believe Detroit shares the same zip as Eastpointe, so I think you're good.

    As for picking a fight, it sounds like you're not familiar with the demeanor in Detroit around that area.
    Yeah the Demeanor that will get you shot, by a peice of crap .25acp revolver that hasent been cleaned in five years, before you can pull out that six round 1911 out of your pocket. Remember bad guys that can't shoot a barn while standing in it can get lucky even with a peice of crap, be cocky even with a dumb@ss thug and lets see what ditch you are found in in whatever zip code. I live a half mile from Detroit. I work in Detroit, I work in Detroit at night, I deal with the scum of the earth at times, I do, its my job, but I am awair to show sumwhat respect to even crackheads. Even though I OC a 13+1 Round Glock 21 .45acp, ankle a 10+1 .40 Glock 27 and pocket a .22lr, wear a BPV, can draw faster than 99.99% of the "street thugs" and am a sharp shooter, doesn't mean that they can't get lucky.
    Long story short, don't be an idiot.
    Welcome to the site, stay smart, I know if you stick around you will learn like we all have! Everyone learns from everyone, again, and sincearly WELCOME! Hope to see you at an event soon.
    "Bam, I like saying bam when I cite something, in fact I think I shall do this from here on out, as long as I remember.
    Bam!" - eastmeyers

    "Then said he to them, But now he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his sack: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
    Luke 22:36
    God Bless

  21. #21
    Regular Member erb's Avatar
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    I've got 8 in the clip, not 6. It's a full size 1911 steel frame. ****I don't carry that plastic sh|t****
    I have two spare clips but only carry one.

    Thanks for the welcome - excellent site with a lot of knowledge here.
    Last edited by erb; 06-30-2010 at 07:03 PM. Reason: funny

  22. #22
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erb View Post
    I've got 8 in the clip, not 6. It's a full size 1911 steel frame. ****I don't carry that plastic sh|t****
    I have two spare clips but only carry one.

    Thanks for the welcome - excellent site with a lot of knowledge here.
    Now you done did it!

    First and foremost, they are called MAGAZINES or MAGS not clips!

    Second, your steel frame, low capacity, ancient technology, 1911 designed, POS can't hold a candle to a modern high capacity defensive weapon system.

    damn newbs

    Oh, btw...welcome to OCDO and hope to meet you at a get together soon.

  23. #23
    Regular Member erb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dougwg View Post
    Now you done did it!

    First and foremost, they are called MAGAZINES or MAGS not clips!

    Second, your steel frame, low capacity, ancient technology, 1911 designed, POS can't hold a candle to a modern high capacity defensive weapon system.

    damn newbs

    Oh, btw...welcome to OCDO and hope to meet you at a get together soon.
    I must be wearing orthopedic shoes because I stand corrected! - I have an 8 round magazine. It goes in a gun that has been in every war since it was created. TRIED AND TRUE

    Maybe I'll come around sometime!

  24. #24
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    I like you already.

  25. #25
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    welcome to the site. don't let the negative comments on this site deter you. This really is a great place.

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