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Thread: Tacoma Rifle and Revolver Club *REQUIRING PISTOL TRAINING*

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    Regular Member swatspyder's Avatar
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    Tacoma Rifle and Revolver Club *REQUIRING PISTOL TRAINING*



    Tacoma Rifle and Revolver Club in University Place has issued a letter to all club members, notifying them that there will be membership changes. One of the changes is a requirement for pistol training before you can shoot on the pistol range. This range competency check will be done ON SITE and is REQUIRED for EVERYONE. That includes law enforcement, security, military and civilians. You are also required to take an hour training class.

    Yea, yea, yea, training is good. It is also their right to require members to have training. But we are talking about law enforcement, military and security who have had years of training that are required to complete a competency check before you can shoot on a range.






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    Might be an insurance company requirement.

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    I wonder what they are going to do with new members. I wonder how many new handgun owners, never shot a handgun, are able to shoot at 45 feet and hit.

    My stomping ground is the Tukwilla Police Range, thank goodness. Not that I am a bad shot, just that the guests I bring are until we get them familiar with the sidearm.

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    Yup. So much for new people entering the sport or learning the art of self defense. Screw them, I guess.

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    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swatspyder View Post
    Yea, yea, yea, training is good. It is also their right to require members to have training. But we are talking about law enforcement, military and security who have had years of training that are required to complete a competency check before you can shoot on a range.
    [/IMG]
    Sounds fair to me. The rule is BS imho, and I'd never go to that range... but if you're going to treat your members like pansies you might as well do it equally.

    And imho a significant number of LEO and military hardly know which end of the gun to hold. They are no different than a normal citizen (shhh, it's because they are normal citizens).
    Last edited by Dave_pro2a; 07-01-2010 at 01:57 AM.

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    No one is exempt from safety

    I'm ex-military, an instructor with lots of "experience."

    When anyone gets the idea that safety does not involve them - you'll be that DEA Firearm Instructor a few years ago that shot himself in the leg.

    Just because you have some experience should not exempt you from a baseline of knowledge. Just because the military taught you firearm safety for an M4 does not qualify you as safe with a handgun. Same goes for LEO - you can do a simple google/youtube on it and you'll see plenty and I've seen quite a bit on the range (first hand).

    No one is "entitled" and I for one say good for them. I'm sure they want their club to exist long after we're gone so for the good of the club, since I'm sure this was enacted by the club officers (for insurance reasons or not).

    It's a good baseline for everyone.

    Maybe you need to look at it as normalizes everyone to the same safety page. I still take safety courses here and there to keep me updated.

    When we get lazy is when you should know that you need to be more conscious of safety. Sorry I just see the good side but again you can always find the bad side to everything.
    Young Kim, NRA Endowment Member
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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    I watched the video of the DEA shooting himself....bad!

    My point is how are people going to practice at that range to be able to hit a target that for away 10 for 10? They are going to have to go to another range to get up to that level, and then go to the range?

    Personally I could care less, I am not the one going to that particular range. Everyone should practice, nobody is above learning, I just think that is a pretty high bar for beginner, expecting them to hit a target that far away 100%.

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    Regular Member Mainsail's Avatar
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    It won't keep me from joining, because I wasn't going to join anyway.

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    Regular Member gsx1138's Avatar
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    I've been to this range 1 time as a guest. I'll never go back.

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    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsx1138 View Post
    I've been to this range 1 time as a guest. I'll never go back.
    2x's for me and I agree

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    Just playing devil's advocate...

    Just had to stir the pot....

    I've never shot there - I know where it is as my father is buried in the cemetery next door.

    I wonder what prompted this change? Only a few ranges require some form of a safety test.
    Young Kim, NRA Endowment Member
    NRA Certified Instructor (pistol)
    NRA Range Safety Officer

    www.shootonthemove.org

    "Shoot Safetly, Shoot Often and Share Your Sport!"
    Jim Scoutten, Shooting USA

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    Regular Member killchain's Avatar
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    I'm glad that my private range isn't like this. My range is quiet, usually empty, and everyone is their own range master. It's so nice.

    And as far as the military/LE restriction goes... have you ever watched a pogue shoot? I have. You'd think their M4's are shotguns with the groups they come up with. :P

    Seriously though, just because you got a uniform on doesn't neccesarily mean you know what you're doing with a firearm. Don't get me wrong though, lots and lots and lots of them do.

    But I like and respect law enforcement (for the most part.) Them and my brothers in uniform can come and get some brush up on some firearms any day, just ask.

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    Quote Originally Posted by swatspyder View Post


    Tacoma Rifle and Revolver Club in University Place has issued a letter to all club members, notifying them that there will be membership changes. One of the changes is a requirement for pistol training before you can shoot on the pistol range. This range competency check will be done ON SITE and is REQUIRED for EVERYONE. That includes law enforcement, security, military and civilians. You are also required to take an hour training class.

    Yea, yea, yea, training is good. It is also their right to require members to have training. But we are talking about law enforcement, military and security who have had years of training that are required to complete a competency check before you can shoot on a range.

    (Images removed from quote to save space)
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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    A refresher course does not hurt anyone and can only emphasize safety which some can and do become relaxed on.

    This is a good time to take loved ones or friends along with and make it an outing that will not only help others but instill with them the importance you place upon firearms that you are willing to attend and go through it with them.

    There are so many out there as well that are careless and even dangerous with firearms at local ranges and some of these were supposedly experienced shooters.

    The issue of Law Enforcement, Military and Security that are not automatically given a pass, I concur as have worked in all fields of this I know first hand, lack skills and some judgment on safety in firearms. A recent incident in Union Gap, WA where two Officers, both armed with AR-15 and between the two of them shot around 14 rounds at a young man with in 50 feet missed each and every shot, the only reason the kid gave up was it was hit by flying debris that one of the missed shots kicked up.

    Many here have taken training and have good safety and proficient in firearms and there are those that just want to talk the talk and not do the walk.

    What is really so bad about this? It ensures more people get the fundamentals into some of those who have had little to none.

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    What the club controls, the club can deny. Sure, it sounds great and all, but what if a person of a race or religion the RSO doesn't like shows up? Will he pass? (I'm just saying...)

    This is why I don't like "mandatory" training. It leaves open the possibility that someone can and will use it to their advantage.

    Do you trust Mayor Daley to design a "good" safety program that anyone can pass?

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swatspyder View Post

    Yea, yea, yea, training is good. It is also their right to require members to have training. But we are talking about law enforcement, military and security who have had years of training that are required to complete a competency check before you can shoot on a range.

    [/IMG]
    If you are implying that just because one is in Law Enforcement, the military, or security they are automatically competent you've never attended to an officer who has shot themselves in the foot, leg, or ass because they were playing with their gun while sitting in a car, bored. I have and it has happened more times than you believe. People who use guns daily often times become complacent and have some real bad habits.

    I belong to a club that has had this requirement for qualification many years. It is also required for those who use the Pistol Range during Member Hours to re-qualify every year for the first 3 years and then every 10 years. The main idea is to have them demonstrate that they handle a firearm properly and aren't a danger to themselves or others. Also, they need to demonstrate the ability to hit a target rather than the ceiling, lights, target frames, walls, floors, shooting stations, etc. How many of you have gone into a public range and seen bullet holes everywhere, including the shooting station table? If you haven't, just go to Sam's or Norpoint.

    People need to look at the big picture and realize that the world is full of many people that just don't use their brains. A gun range is not a place for them to demonstrate their stupidity. The best way to weed those people out is to require a simple class or orientation session and then a demonstration that one can hit a target (my organizations requires a score of 60+ at 25 yards. Qualify as you intend to shoot. Off-hand, two-handed, or from a rest, and then you are allowed to shoot according to stance you qualified in, or any of the less difficult stances.

    We all bitch about the Wingnuts and Zimmos that show up at the range doing stupid and dangerous stuff but them we also bitch about any attempt to control them. Maybe what we all like to do most of all is just Bitch!

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    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
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    Remember it's your right to tell them to pack sand, and take you business elsewhere. I hope a lot of members do just that.
    The state requires no training and this place requires..., it not about safety, it's about your money. I hope their little venture over control of members wallets backfires, and they find themselves on a new campaign to save the business from going under.

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    Every range is different...

    So every range is different in regards to "rules."

    Most of the smaller, private (member only) ranges do have some sort of "training" since it's not overseen by paid staff range safety officers.

    For these instances it does make sense to have the membership "prove" some basic safety background - sure for insurance but also No club wants their club's name associated with a ND and/or death.

    It is a free country so for those that don't - don't.

    As an instructor I have seen very experienced shooters do the stupidest things (not because they are stupid). We sometimes fall into the trap.... "it's the way I was taught and/or I never thougth about doing it another way..."

    For example: we have all seen the TV shows of guys holding their guns pointed muzzle up. Well at my range it's a no-no. Or how about reloading a magazine with the muzzle flipped up? It's a no-no at my range - why? My range is surrounded on all 4 sides with homes and 2 schools. We can't afford to have a round leave the range.

    Member ranges like these are nice, especially if you live close. I mean if you time it right - no one else (lots of privacy). No per use fees, etc. No odd balls from whatever gangster types that may come off the street and the sense of belonging to your club.

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    An issue I see....

    Is this range charging to become 'qualified' after years of not having the policy in place? Or is it a free 'qualification' and brings the members (as a whole) safety standards up to par?

    I could see a range having safety standards but that would be part of the membership of the range and not an extra charge.

    Ranges like Oldkim's with no membership may be different in that regard.


    Quote Originally Posted by oldkim View Post
    So every range is different in regards to "rules."

    Most of the smaller, private (member only) ranges do have some sort of "training" since it's not overseen by paid staff range safety officers.

    For these instances it does make sense to have the membership "prove" some basic safety background - sure for insurance but also No club wants their club's name associated with a ND and/or death.

    It is a free country so for those that don't - don't.

    As an instructor I have seen very experienced shooters do the stupidest things (not because they are stupid). We sometimes fall into the trap.... "it's the way I was taught and/or I never thougth about doing it another way..."

    For example: we have all seen the TV shows of guys holding their guns pointed muzzle up. Well at my range it's a no-no. Or how about reloading a magazine with the muzzle flipped up? It's a no-no at my range - why? My range is surrounded on all 4 sides with homes and 2 schools. We can't afford to have a round leave the range.

    Member ranges like these are nice, especially if you live close. I mean if you time it right - no one else (lots of privacy). No per use fees, etc. No odd balls from whatever gangster types that may come off the street and the sense of belonging to your club.
    Live Free or Die!

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    Before retiring, I instructed rifle, shotgun and pistol for the agency I worked for. As a NRA certified Range Saftey Officer (different than an Range Officer), I have seen enough dangerous conditions from experienced and newby's alike, that I would endorse a version of this requirement.
    Most of the ranges that I have shot at have restrictions on your line of sight going above the horizon, and your field of fire cannot exceed 30 to either right or left of your shooting position.
    I would venture that if you were on the firing line and the person next to you violated the safety procedures, whether posted, or required by the range, you would speak up and attempt to correct the situation for your own safety if nothing else. At least I would hope you would.

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    range safety

    Where did you get that flyer? I'm a member but I haven't seen that yet. I shoot there and most of the guys follow the rules are courteous and I'm not seeing any safety issues. Usually when i go there is just a couple of us as it's never busy during the weekday. I do know quite a few guys that turn around and leave if Bob Hom (Pistol RSO)is there. The one day I did see him there he made a point to go down the line and lecture everyone on whatever he could come up with. I felt bad for the new guy that had to put up with his overly exhaustive lecture regarding the safety light. We all signalled we were ready to go downrange to change targets and the new guy flips the safety light on. We are standing there waiting for Mr. Hom to get done fumbling with his pistol and he wigged out that we didn't give him proper notice even though he wasn't shooting had his head in his gun case and the light and beeper had been going off for almost a minute.

    One of the old time regulars said, hey the lights been on and we were waiting for you.
    Last edited by Nosrac; 07-01-2010 at 03:50 PM. Reason: spellern

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    Never mind. Found it in the June meeting minutes.

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    I am not saying the new requirements are bad. I am saying that the threshold for "proficiency" might be a bit much in the accuracy department for beginners.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia Plath View Post
    I am not saying the new requirements are bad. I am saying that the threshold for "proficiency" might be a bit much in the accuracy department for beginners.
    10 shots in 2' x 2' at 35 feet? I'm not a great shot but I thought that was pretty generous. That's basically keeping it on the target frame and not missing it completely. They don't have the 7 or 15 yard berms yet so that is probably why they are waiting for late August. We have to shoot at 25 yds. I try to keep everything inside the first ring of the paper plate.

    I think the requirement is probably a good idea but it chaps my hide that it will be a waste of time for both the basic training and going to the test for a lot of us. Not that some guys don't need a refresher but I can't imagine that the training will be that extensive. I'll let you know after I go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Is this range charging to become 'qualified' after years of not having the policy in place? Or is it a free 'qualification' and brings the members (as a whole) safety standards up to par?

    I could see a range having safety standards but that would be part of the membership of the range and not an extra charge.

    Ranges like Oldkim's with no membership may be different in that regard.
    As far as I know there is no fee for either the required basic training or the competency check.

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