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Thread: IMPORTANT: your conduct while OCing.

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    Regular Member kyleplusitunes's Avatar
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    IMPORTANT: your conduct while OCing.

    So today I got a call from my friend who I take to maybe once a month, he lives in lake Orion, and he is really really pro OC when we talk it's usually a main point of our conversation, which brings me to today's phone call.

    My friend informed me he was at the great lakes crossing mall the other day, and saw another OCer! He was pretty excited about it at first, until he noticed the gentleman, in a drop leg holster (thigh rig) hunched forward in a pretty aggressive stance, almost snarling at people, my friend said "it was like he was challenging people to say something to him," it was really disturbing, I thought the guy was about to go on a shooting spree, he said.

    So, my friend followed him for a while, thinking that he could be wrong, but he was definitely making a show about it, again, almost challenging people to say something to him, snarling.

    While this is not illegal, I was absolutely disgusted when I heard this, it makes us all look like idiots, when you are out on the town, you are an ambassador of gun rights. Please, in the name of all that is good, try to handle yourself better than this. Especially if you frequent GLC in a drop leg holster.

    Again, the friend who told me this I trust with my life, he us very pro gun and pro open carry, even though he does not carry.


    This post should go without saying, but for the love of god, use your head or leave your gun at home.

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    Regular Member American Boy With a Gun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyleplusitunes View Post


    This post should go without saying, but for the love of god, use your head or leave your gun at home.
    This logic needs to be applied whether carrying openly or concealed. Use your brain, simply because your smart enough to carry doesn't mean your superior to, well, anything really. Your firearm is a tool, something to use for self defense, not to make you look like a bad ass....
    "If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." -- Samuel Adams, 1776

    An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject

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    Couldn't agree more.

    I dont feel that I have an attitude, nor do I snarl at people. Folks have said that about me before, even years before I carried. Its not how I feel inside, but some people perceive things differently I guess. If I came off wrong, then I apologize that wasnt my intent.

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    I tell everybody:

    When you go out in public with a gun on a hip, you're an ambassador for us all.

    Be on your best of manners, and always think from an outsider's perspective of how you'll be perceived.

    -Richard-

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    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    I've said before that everyone who OC's is an ambassador for all gun owners/carriers and with that in mind it would be most effective to furthering acceptance of guns by the public for an OC'er to dress neatly, be relatively clean cut, behave in a respectful and responsible manner, even go out of their way to hold doors for folks or let them go ahead in line maybe even carry their groceries to their car for the elderly.... and put OC's best foot forward all the time.

    Should manner of dress, attitude or mood, or degree of personal hygiene matter to exercising a right? Of course not... but people most certainly do "judge a book by it's cover"............ and they will judge OC by the looks and behavior of the people they see OC'ing.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    I've said before that everyone who OC's is an ambassador for all gun owners/carriers and with that in mind it would be most effective to furthering acceptance of guns by the public for an OC'er to dress neatly, be relatively clean cut, behave in a respectful and responsible manner, even go out of their way to hold doors for folks or let them go ahead in line maybe even carry their groceries to their car for the elderly.... and put OC's best foot forward all the time.

    Should manner of dress, attitude or mood, or degree of personal hygiene matter to exercising a right? Of course not... but people most certainly do "judge a book by it's cover"............ and they will judge OC by the looks and behavior of the people they see OC'ing.
    Amen you said it better than I can!
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    At first I was thinkin hey I OCed at GLX yesterday but that wasn't me! I was OCin a .357mag in a right handed outside the waistband holster, nice leather, black. I was also very slow and prop hunched over (darn back surgury), the women and I took my father and her father out for fathers day to dinner and a movie. Didn't see Stainless.
    "Bam, I like saying bam when I cite something, in fact I think I shall do this from here on out, as long as I remember.
    Bam!" - eastmeyers

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    I've said before that everyone who OC's is an ambassador for all gun owners/carriers and with that in mind it would be most effective to furthering acceptance of guns by the public for an OC'er to dress neatly, be relatively clean cut, behave in a respectful and responsible manner, even go out of their way to hold doors for folks or let them go ahead in line maybe even carry their groceries to their car for the elderly.... and put OC's best foot forward all the time.

    Should manner of dress, attitude or mood, or degree of personal hygiene matter to exercising a right? Of course not... but people most certainly do "judge a book by it's cover"............ and they will judge OC by the looks and behavior of the people they see OC'ing.
    100% agree...on every point.

  9. #9
    Regular Member kryptonian's Avatar
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    all good points. i might not always be shaved or dressed for a job interview but ALWAYS present a pleasant attitude and go out of my way to be courteous. was OC in walmart and couple behind me in cashier line had a little girl screaming at the top of her lungs about something and it was clearly annoying everyone around me. i never said a word and they eventually took her somewhere. lady in front of me even gave me a 'why don't you do something ?' look implying that since i was armed i must be of some position where i am duty bound to intervene. just smiled and didn't say anything to her so she shifted her dismay to the cashier who was a captive listener. had mp3 player on with headphones but not loud enough to impair situational awareness. it's a convenient social distancer that let's you walk around and choose who you want to interact with. called civil inattention like an elevator or the urinal.
    people like that guy could do us all in. it only takes one stupid loner with a grudge and actually doesn't even have to pull a trigger to make us all guilty by association. if our detractors wanted to do a negative campaign against us they could pose as OCer legally and start some public crap making outlawing OC a priority. i would have no problem at all walking up to mr. grudge at the mall and asking 'what's the problem buddy?'

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    Self defense is a natural right and is not soley for those who comb their hair, smell good, wear nice clothes, and drive a car. Those who sleep on the streets, don't have access to perform daily hygiene, and push shopping carts have the right to bear arms. If the only gun they have is a jennings and can't afford a decent gun belt or holster more power to them. They probably aren't going to post about it and violate forum rules.

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwikrnu View Post
    Self defense is a natural right and is not soley for those who comb their hair, smell good, wear nice clothes, and drive a car. Those who sleep on the streets, don't have access to perform daily hygiene, and push shopping carts have the right to bear arms.
    I agree with what you are saying... but if the person you are describing acts in a pleasant manner even if all the other issues exist then they are doing the best they can!

    We are never going to be able to be perfect in all respects BUT if our manner of speaking and behavior is top notch then the rest won't matter as much.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    Couldn't agree more.

    I dont feel that I have an attitude, nor do I snarl at people. Folks have said that about me before, even years before I carried. Its not how I feel inside, but some people perceive things differently I guess. If I came off wrong, then I apologize that wasnt my intent.
    You need to be more conscious of the image you are projecting. The thigh rig makes a pretty bold statement on its own. In addition to that you add an admitted aggressive stance/appearance(although not intentional) and you are likley to scare people. The fact you are up at GLX virtually daily, how many people are coming away with a bad impression of OCers? Please take this as food for thought and not a criticism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scot623 View Post
    You need to be more conscious of the image you are projecting. The thigh rig makes a pretty bold statement on its own. In addition to that you add an admitted aggressive stance/appearance(although not intentional) and you are likley to scare people. The fact you are up at GLX virtually daily, how many people are coming away with a bad impression of OCers? Please take this as food for thought and not a criticism.
    Thigh rigs are good because everyone knows you're open carrying. There is no question about it unless you're wearing a knee length coat or a sleep shirt. Especially important and necessary if you've been accused in the past of concealing...

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwikrnu View Post
    Thigh rigs are good because everyone knows you're open carrying. There is no question about it unless you're wearing a knee length coat or a sleep shirt. Especially important and necessary if you've been accused in the past of concealing...
    I agree with everything you said. Thigh rigs have a very practical use. They just happen to project a bold statement based on that military/paramilitary/swat teams use them. Please note I never said they were bad.

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    I would like to say thanks for bringing this up. I really do care how people see me, and what they think of me. Ill try to make some adjustments.
    I started carrying in a leg drop so that there was no mistaking my OC for CC. And because I felt that I was targeted as an OCer, which led to the charge. The leg drop was a way to assert my rights a little more loudly. I lost my CPL because I was falsely accused of CC when I wasn't, and I didn't want any more confusion, especially during my suspension.

    I watch people pretty closely, and try to carry myself confidently while OC. Perhaps I overdid it. Never did trust people, maybe it shows, Ill be giving this issue a lot of thought, and will do what I can to correct this issue.

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    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyleplusitunes View Post
    My friend informed me he was at the great lakes crossing mall the other day, and saw another OCer! He was pretty excited about it at first, until he noticed the gentleman, in a drop leg holster (thigh rig) hunched forward in a pretty aggressive stance, almost snarling at people, my friend said "it was like he was challenging people to say something to him," it was really disturbing, I thought the guy was about to go on a shooting spree, he said.
    I'm having a hard time believing this. Either 1)it didn't happen, 2)your friend's perception was incorrect (perception errors do happen actually more frequently than you would guess), or 3)GLX security wasn't on the job. I was once asked to leave by GLX security (and I left) while OC'ing and standing in line with my grandson in my arms waiting for Easter Bunny pictures, merely because they got one call from someone who saw me open carrying who was "questioning" OC legality (the person didn't even state they were afraid or felt threatened). Every time I've been to GLX, security is walking around and I've never gone more than two minutes without seeing at least one. So, while the third possibility is possible, it doesn't strike me as likely. IF there was this aggressive OC'er walking about the mall, security would be on him like white on rice and they have a hair trigger when it comes to removal.

    Video, or it didn't happen.

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    Thats what I was thinking.
    If this is the image I was portraying, then I cant figure why it wasnt pointed out to me before. Im down there a lot, I see and talk to lots of people. I make eye contact, and smile at people given the opportunity. When security sees me, they usually greet me by my first name. Im open to constructive criticism though, and will simply better myself through it. Perhaps it was someone else, but when I hear GLX and a leg drop, I made the assumption that it was me.

  19. #19
    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    I would like to say thanks for bringing this up. I really do care how people see me, and what they think of me. Ill try to make some adjustments.
    I started carrying in a leg drop so that there was no mistaking my OC for CC. And because I felt that I was targeted as an OCer, which led to the charge. The leg drop was a way to assert my rights a little more loudly. I lost my CPL because I was falsely accused of CC when I wasn't, and I didn't want any more confusion, especially during my suspension.

    I watch people pretty closely, and try to carry myself confidently while OC. Perhaps I overdid it. Never did trust people, maybe it shows, Ill be giving this issue a lot of thought, and will do what I can to correct this issue.
    OK, I'm confused. There's a difference between:

    A) Watching people closely (situational awareness) and carrying one's self confidently.
    B) Behaving aggressively and snarling at people.

    It's not just a subjective difference, it is a REAL difference. And "overdoing" A means being being more situationally aware and exuding more confidence . . . it doesn't mean B. B is a wholly other and different thing.

    So, I'm confused. Which is it? Were you being more situationally aware and exuding more confidence than normal, or were you being aggressive toward people and/or snarling at them? Bottom line, describe EXACTLY, PRECISELY, and in FULL DETAIL the behavior you say was "overdone", please.
    Last edited by DanM; 07-01-2010 at 12:16 AM.

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    It was a cautious assumption I made as a result of this thread. I diddnt think I was coming off as anything but confident and professional. If someone said something like this, then I feel its a responsibility to do some self evaluation and make sure that I am portraying OC appropriately. I carry myself in a confident manner. I Want people to approach me so that I can discuss OC with them. And frankly, I would like to meet someone, so I act and dress accordingly.

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    As far as SA, I usually see the security, police, and OCers before they see me. I tend to notice things like lost money, Ive found almost 20$ up there, as well as lost packages. I look in each store as I walk by, and one of my favorite pastimes is to notice those people who see you and either pretend they diddnt, or try to hide the fact that they saw the gun at all.

  22. #22
    Campaign Veteran RabbiVJ's Avatar
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    wheb i OCed with stainless @ GLX a couple of weeks we never had any probs...
    -NRA Member, GSSF Member, GeorgiaCarry Member, Glock Certified Armorer, Glock 30SF, STI Elektra, M&P9c, NAA Black Widow .22 WMR
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    Last edited by DetroitBiker; 07-01-2010 at 02:12 AM. Reason: edited out of respect for Dougwg ,sorry Bro

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    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    I can be a little standoffish. As far as being "not all there in the head", there is a lot of folks out there who think that about those who carry guns concealed, but when we OC, they think we are completely psycho. Comes with the territory.

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