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Thread: Would You Help A Stranger?

  1. #1
    Regular Member infidel4life's Avatar
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    Would You Help A Stranger?

    Under specific circumstances, Michigan law authorizes Concealed Pistol License (CPL) holders to defend other "third persons" who are in imminent jeopardy of severe bodily harm and/or sexual assault. This article will explore the potential ramifications of "getting involved" in a violent confrontation.

    A person who is being assaulted by a criminal knows with absolute certainty that he is in imminent danger. In this situation, there is no confusion from the victim's perspective as to what is happening. Onlookers to an assault may not be sure of what is happening, which of the persons involved is the victim, and what actions caused the incident to happen. Uncertainty, a desire not to get involved, and a fear of being harmed are factors that lead to inaction by witnesses
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    If it became necessary to help someone, I would. I couldn't just stand by and watch, or walk away. That just wouldn't be right. I'm not saying that people should try to be a hero or anything, that's dangerous, but how would you feel if you were in need? How would you feel later knowing you could have done something, and didn't?

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    Depends on the situation.

    Is the attacker unarmed?
    Is the victim unarmed?
    Does it look like the victim has things under control?
    Is there more than one attacker?

    If the victim has no chance to fight back, and looks like severe bodily harm may be caused, then yes, I'll step in "at the ready".

    If the attacker is armed, and the victim isn't, I'm condition zero with my gun drawn, and the attacker's next action MUST be to drop the weapon and/or retreat. If I'm approached with a weapon and I feel as though my safety is at stake, I'm firing.

    -Richard-

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    Regular Member malignity's Avatar
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    I have no intentions on going out of my way to be a hero under virtually any circumstances. I will however say that if I came across someone in need and did nothing, I would not be able to live with the guilt. I would absolutely do everything in my power to help them.


    It reminds me of this story that happened a few months ago. Completely disgusting.

    http://www.aolnews.com/nation/articl...yax%2F19452892
    Last edited by malignity; 07-01-2010 at 04:49 AM.
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    Question ?

    WAY too many variables to determine whether I would engage in a situation or not.

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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Troll!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by hud View Post
    way too many variables to determine whether i would engage in a situation or not.
    troll!!!!!!!!!!
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Troll!!

    oops
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  8. #8
    Regular Member cmdr_iceman71's Avatar
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    The scenario that disturbs or haunts me most is the wife/girlfriend who plays out a rape fantasy in a public place such as a secluded area of a park at night, with her husband or boyfriend. And because the park is closed and no one is around, she’s really gotten into character hollering and screaming "No!" "Stop!" while appearing to fight back (flailing her arms and kicking).

    The mock rape is in full progress. Digital penetration is occurring.

    And here comes a well meaning armed law-abiding citizen responding to her screams.

    Gentlemen, you may write your own ending. lol
    Last edited by cmdr_iceman71; 07-01-2010 at 07:20 AM.
    "Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth." - President George Washington

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    Regular Member MarineSgt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hud View Post
    WAY too many variables to determine whether I would engage in a situation or not.
    I concur.

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    Regular Member infidel4life's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by infidel4life View Post

    A person who is being assaulted by a criminal knows with absolute certainty that he is in imminent danger.
    I think its pretty much there in black and white? If a person is getting beat down on the street would you as CPL holder intervene?
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    What does a CPL have to do with anything?

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    oops
    Last edited by erb; 07-01-2010 at 11:57 AM.

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    Regular Member erb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmdr_iceman71 View Post
    The scenario that disturbs or haunts me most is the wife/girlfriend who plays out a rape fantasy in a public place such as a secluded area of a park at night, with her husband or boyfriend. And because the park is closed and no one is around, she’s really gotten into character hollering and screaming "No!" "Stop!" while appearing to fight back (flailing her arms and kicking).

    The mock rape is in full progress. Digital penetration is occurring.

    And here comes a well meaning armed law-abiding citizen responding to her screams.

    Gentlemen, you may write your own ending. lol
    Yep.

    I would have to determine if the victim is in fact innocent. Not always so easy to do in a slit second, or even minutes.

    http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/24042319/detail.html

    This one seems pretty easy tho. ^
    An armed robbery - they do understand they're putting their life on the line for under $100, right?
    Last edited by erb; 07-01-2010 at 11:56 AM.

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    Regular Member infidel4life's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    What does a CPL have to do with anything?
    Well from a legal stand point a Michigan CPL holder is trained by state standards and thus qualified to carry a pistol. Therefore if a shooting should occur a cpl holder vs. a non cpl holder would have a far better chance defending himself/herself in court.

    In your case a prior CPL holder who has had his CPL revoked might have a difficult time in court. Regardless of the situation. I could see the court some how trying to use the CPL revocation to implement criminal charges against you in regards to the said shooting. PA's are very good at what they do and will use whatever they can against you. You of all people and your history should know from personal experience just how manipulative , persuasive and diligent PA's can be.
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    As far as the mock rape goes, thats not all that difficult really. Suppressing the knee jerk reaction to shoot the guy might be, but thats self control. My CPL instructor made it very clear to loudly yell STOP as you draw your weapon. For various reasons. If its a boyfreind, he will more than likely stop, an assailant wouldnt, or he would run, or challenge you. A boyfreind may challenge you at first as a reflex, but seeing you are armed will stand down. In any case, you have drawn the weapon, so you should be on the phone with 911, and let the police determine the relationship between the couple, and take appropriate actions as they see fit.

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    True about PAs, but to be clear, I wasnt revoked. there is a huge legal difference. To be revoked, one must be convicted of a crime.

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    That depends. In Michigan or another state where people are sort of free or actually free and don't typically suffer from an idiotic victim mindset of thinking self defense is a government issue, and allow police and government to walk all over them, then yes, I will help a stranger if the need comes up. My life would be in added danger, but the laws in place make it easier to steer clear of prison time and other problems.

    If I'm in a non free state or place occupied by largely idiot residents and a criminal government, such as California or Maryland, and I'm carrying a legal or not means of self defense, I'm probably not going to bother intervening on anyone elses behalf, I'd just be out to protect me and people I know. The very fact someone would live in one of these places and not have with them a means to protect themselves already suggests that they are fools who don't feel their lives are worth protecting. Again, this defines a victim mindset of believing the government takes care of safety, because government is superior to individual freedom. To jump in and try to protect a person this stupid would make me vulnerable not only to the assailant(s), but to the actions of a criminal government. Bernard Goetz did a year in prison if I remember right, and I'm not willing to do a year for someone I don't know who is foolish enough to be in that situation to begin with. Potentially deadly prison time and life altering/ruining felony convictions are not worth doing for an idiot I don't even know.

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    Similar to what Michigander said, it depends where Im at. If I were in a PFZ, except a school, and something happened, I doubt I would intervene. I have the mindset that if you chose to have a gun free zone, lets see how that works out for you. If you have asked me to conceal or leave, then you are on your own.

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    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by infidel4life View Post
    I think its pretty much there in black and white? If a person is getting beat down on the street would you as CPL holder intervene?

    A CPL has nothing to do with anything. Period. The Self Defense Act (309) of 2006 MCL780.972 does not mention anywhere needing a CPL. As for your wack-job-theory of having to defend yourself and having a harder time because you don't have a CPL, I rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6, also I think that the theroretical person you saved would make a compelling witness.
    "Bam, I like saying bam when I cite something, in fact I think I shall do this from here on out, as long as I remember.
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    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eastmeyers View Post
    I think that the theroretical person you saved would make a compelling witness.
    Reminds me of a story......

    It was a long time ago and I've long since lost contact with the people involved. A girl I went to school with had a firefigher/EMT for a dad. He was sued by a woman whose life he saved by giving her an emergency tracheotomy. She was a catalog model and she contended that the small scar on her neck ruined her carreer. If I remember correctly the judge was incensed and threw it out.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

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    i help people all the time. I changed a tire on a car for a lady along side the road not too long ago. I also gave a complete stranger a ride home from home depot because he couldn't get his motorcycle started.

    i think i agree with another post here that it depends on location. I would help a stranger out who was about to or in the middle of being attacked with great bodily harm depending on where i was. In my home town, or one of the small rural towns around here, no problem. Down in Detroit, or even Flint, I am way out of my element. It would be far more uncomfortable and dangerous to attempt to protect some stranger while in the ghetto.

  22. #22
    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lapeer20m View Post
    i help people all the time. I changed a tire on a car for a lady along side the road not too long ago. I also gave a complete stranger a ride home from home depot because he couldn't get his motorcycle started.

    i think i agree with another post here that it depends on location. I would help a stranger out who was about to or in the middle of being attacked with great bodily harm depending on where i was. In my home town, or one of the small rural towns around here, no problem. Down in Detroit, or even Flint, I am way out of my element. It would be far more uncomfortable and dangerous to attempt to protect some stranger while in the ghetto.
    I would be far more in my element. I know I am right with god and know where I am going when I die, so if I see someone to the point of severe bodily harm, and I can do something about it, in the hoods of Detroit (which I happen to know very well, so not out of my element at all) then you darn well better believe I am their. Now if my buddy is being chased by a bear, I dunno...
    "Bam, I like saying bam when I cite something, in fact I think I shall do this from here on out, as long as I remember.
    Bam!" - eastmeyers

    "Then said he to them, But now he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his sack: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
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    Regular Member Taurus850CIA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eastmeyers View Post
    ... Now if my buddy is being chased by a bear, I dunno...
    Well, remind me not to go hunting or camping in the north woods with you!
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    As long as you can outrun your buddy, you should be fine.

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    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    As long as you can outrun your buddy, you should be fine.
    I don't think I could out run a one legged Ethiopian chasing a donut down a hill.
    "Bam, I like saying bam when I cite something, in fact I think I shall do this from here on out, as long as I remember.
    Bam!" - eastmeyers

    "Then said he to them, But now he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his sack: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
    Luke 22:36
    God Bless

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