Would You Help A Stranger?

Bailenforcer · Jul 5, 2010

Over what?

Dispense with the drama please. I have been in those situations and there won't be a knife laying on the ground and me shooting someone unarmed. You proposed the scenario now you back pedal?

Oh and I didn't OVER analyze anything I illustrated the obvious flaws, then addressed your proposed scenario. No reason to get hurt feelings over this. It is what it is, I have been in those scenarios and I am still here. No one questioned my judgment either. It's real easy to play let's pretend, but reality is still reality. As far as yelling what would I yell? What? stop stabbing me? I think not, once the attack begins I shoot no warnings, no begging, just stop the attack PERIOD! There is Nothing to yell at that point.

Pouget said:
Are you two having fun over analyzing the fictional story I made up?

I'm pretty sure putting 2 or 3 rounds into someone is going to start their fall to the ground. I'm sure everything would happen so fast you may not think to yell out anything, however, figure out how to stop the threat immediately. There might be a crowd in the general area which by now are all running and screaming for their lives. Therefore, the person walking up to all of the commotion may not be able to realize everything going on with all of the distractions.

stainless1911 · Jul 5, 2010

Troll.

Great posts Michigander and Bailenforcer.

Michigander · Jul 5, 2010

Pouget said:
I'm pretty sure putting 2 or 3 rounds into someone is going to start their fall to the ground. I'm sure everything would happen so fast you may not think to yell out anything, however, figure out how to stop the threat immediately. /QUOTE]

When in doubt, empty the magazine, or maybe a good portion of it if it's got more capacity than most. In my case with my Sig I have 8 rounds ready to go. If I have a single assailant who I need to stop, I'm probably going to empty it before he could actually hit the ground, which will probably be about 3 seconds from the gun being drawn to the slide locking open on empty if I'm drawing with the understanding that I'll be firing immediately. I practice drawing with one hand, and drawing a magazine with the other for fast reloading purposes. Yes, someone could see the situation wrongfully assess it, then draw and fire in a period of a few seconds. But it's rare enough that I've never heard of it.

Pouget · Jul 6, 2010

Bailenforcer said:
Dispense with the drama please. I have been in those situations and there won't be a knife laying on the ground and me shooting someone unarmed. You proposed the scenario now you back pedal?

Oh and I didn't OVER analyze anything I illustrated the obvious flaws, then addressed your proposed scenario. No reason to get hurt feelings over this. It is what it is, I have been in those scenarios and I am still here. No one questioned my judgment either. It's real easy to play let's pretend, but reality is still reality. As far as yelling what would I yell? What? stop stabbing me? I think not, once the attack begins I shoot no warnings, no begging, just stop the attack PERIOD! There is Nothing to yell at that point.

Michigander said:
Pouget said:

I'm pretty sure putting 2 or 3 rounds into someone is going to start their fall to the ground. I'm sure everything would happen so fast you may not think to yell out anything, however, figure out how to stop the threat immediately. /QUOTE]

When in doubt, empty the magazine, or maybe a good portion of it if it's got more capacity than most. In my case with my Sig I have 8 rounds ready to go. If I have a single assailant who I need to stop, I'm probably going to empty it before he could actually hit the ground, which will probably be about 3 seconds from the gun being drawn to the slide locking open on empty if I'm drawing with the understanding that I'll be firing immediately. I practice drawing with one hand, and drawing a magazine with the other for fast reloading purposes. Yes, someone could see the situation wrongfully assess it, then draw and fire in a period of a few seconds. But it's rare enough that I've never heard of it.

Click to expand...

It was just the capital letters of "this makes NO sense at all" wasn't very enlightening to the fact I think it is feasible. I was simply stating that in any situation, I do not see it being impossible to walk up and mistake a situation. Whether they are someone trained or just "some moron" with a gun and starts shooting. Either way, it would suck for someone to mistake you for something you are not.

Also, Michigander, would you really empty a whole magazine into someone? I'm not questioning this at all just simply surprised as to what would actually happen in this situation. I guess it would happen so fast things would be hard to prepare for. I mean you do always hear, "if you're going to shoot someone, you better kill them."

PS- I am not a troll, I open carry 100% of the time while I am not at work.

stainless1911 · Jul 6, 2010

Ok if youre not a troll, I apologize. I hope you can understand that we do get them from time to time.

stainless1911 · Jul 6, 2010

I hope not to ever need to fire one round at a person. That said, If I had to empty the mag, and reload, I would. I carry 3 most of the time. You could be facing several people, or an animal or two. The person could be dressed in layers for winter, or be carrying or ducking behind a barrier. The unknown situation is why most will carry multiple mags and seek higher capacity weapons. I personally wouldnt even think of carrying a revolver, or anything below a .40 as a primary weapon. Ive heard ststistics of the police having a hit ratio of 20-30 percent. If you have 2 or 3 attackers, and 6 rounds, well, do the math.

Pouget · Jul 6, 2010

That is understandable. However, it proves my point by what you just stated. You carry 3 mags because you have no idea what is going to happen. That is exactly what I was stating is you never know, and it would be horrible.

I do agree with you that you can never be over prepared. I carry a glock 23 with an extra mag on my side and usually have my ruger lcp in the pocket. My family and friends don't mind guns, but I find it hilarious that lately when I go out to dinner they ask, "do you really need that here". Which I figured I'd share the fact that my grandma always puts her hand on it when she gives me a hug to see if I have it and makes a comment. The other night she said, I want to hold it some time. Can you take me to the range? I laughed and said absolutely grandma! I think she is like 75

stainless1911 · Jul 6, 2010

My favorite response to those who ask why do you need that, is that you either need a gun 100%, as your life depends upon having it, or I don't need it at all, and I really really hope that I don't need it.

If Im dealing with a confrontational anti, the response is different. "We have a Bill of Rights, not a Bill of needs".

Pouget · Jul 7, 2010

Yeah, any response usually does the trick and leaves the person not saying much. I guess they just do not understand and live under the "guarantee/assumption" that it will not happen to them. I guess it is there loss and could care less if they want to be unprotected, I guess.

army74 · Jul 9, 2010

to stainless

Stainles 1911 you wouldn't use anything less than a .40 caliber they all hurt like hell 380 acp,9mm,40,45 in hollow point they all will knock you down and even kill you i use a 9mm as my main weapon and has saved my life 3x. Any way yes i would I've done it a 115 lb woman who's ex has a ppo on him broke her window by my house drug her out of her car had her by her throat i yelled at him from the sidewalk where me and my neighbor was standing she ran for me got behind me he said he was going to kill her then i took a defensive stance (sideways) runs up and says to me I'm going to kill you yes he was unarmed but i didn't know at the time if he was or wasn't.I drew my gun and chose to use other than deadly force telling him to back off he turned and ran. Gun was taken from me the next day 4days later was never charged and cleared and bad guy arrested.

stainless1911 · Jul 10, 2010

There is very little difference within the body (or psychologically ) between a 9, and a .40. However, the .40 and above calibers do have a greater powder charge, and have a heavier round. This translates into a much greater impact force which can more easily penetrate barriers. You may need to shoot through a door, windsheild, layers of heavy winter clothing, and so on. A heavier, faster bullet will get through these materials and into the body more often, and more effectively than a smaller and lighter one. After shooting through a few objects with the .40, I was left with a couple thoughts. I like the .40, but maybe I should have bought a .45, and I'm glad I didn't go with a 9.

For summer clothing, no barriers, or a no fire situation, there is no real difference in a 40 vs. a 9mm.

autosurgeon · Jul 10, 2010

stainless1911 said:
There is very little difference within the body (or psychologically ) between a 9, and a .40. However, the .40 and above calibers do have a greater powder charge, and have a heavier round. This translates into a much greater impact force which can more easily penetrate barriers. You may need to shoot through a door, windsheild, layers of heavy winter clothing, and so on. A heavier, faster bullet will get through these materials and into the body more often, and more effectively than a smaller and lighter one. After shooting through a few objects with the .40, I was left with a couple thoughts. I like the .40, but maybe I should have bought a .45, and I'm glad I didn't go with a 9.

For summer clothing, no barriers, or a no fire situation, there is no real difference in a 40 vs. a 9mm.

hmmmm Well I too have shot through a car and a 9mm bonded round will go clean through it.

stainless1911 · Jul 10, 2010

As did the .40. When I shot through the windshield into a tree, the round only just made it through the bark, and into the first 1/2 inch of real wood. The deflection would also have been greater with the 9, and less with a .45.

stainless1911 · Jul 10, 2010

One of the .40 cal rounds shot at the car door actually stopped in the steel re-enforcement beam within the door, the shot was made square, at only 10 feet away.

Taurus850CIA · Jul 10, 2010

stainless1911 said:
As did the .40. When I shot through the windshield into a tree, the round only just made it through the bark, and into the first 1/2 inch of real wood. The deflection would also have been greater with the 9, and less with a .45.

How do you know this? Have you tested this theory? Where are the studies to back this up? Have you taken into consideration the different pressures involved with different powders, different loads? Higher pressures can afford equal or higher impact energy to smaller rounds. Bullet shapes have an affect as well. Have you tested that? Is this statement substantiated, or is it purely speculation on your part?

stainless1911 · Jul 10, 2010

Diddnt need a degree in rocket science to dig the bullet out of a stump, and come to the conclusion that the bullet diddnt go very deep, maybe I shoulda went with a .45. As far as actual studies go for the rounds and caliber I choose to carry, The FBI has certain criteria and testing that must be surpassed before they settle on a particular round/caliber. I suppose if its good enough for the FBI, and it passed their requirements, then its a pretty good round, and I'll carry what passed their tests.

autosurgeon · Jul 10, 2010

stainless1911 said:
Diddnt need a degree in rocket science to dig the bullet out of a stump, and come to the conclusion that the bullet diddnt go very deep, maybe I shoulda went with a .45. As far as actual studies go for the rounds and caliber I choose to carry, The FBI has certain criteria and testing that must be surpassed before they settle on a particular round/caliber. I suppose if its good enough for the FBI, and it passed their requirements, then its a pretty good round, and I'll carry what passed their tests.

A stump is not a person...

American Boy With a Gun · Jul 10, 2010

autosurgeon said:
A stump is not a person...

Sigh, and the caliber wars flame on....its a bullet people!! Unless your willing to be shot with each, and tell us the difference, then zip it...

stainless1911 · Jul 10, 2010

army74 · Jul 10, 2010

handgun rounds

Im just here to tell you that a 9mm jhp will go thru a heavy jacket and a hooded sweat shirt and a t-shirt and still drop the individual i know because it happend to me and no i wasnt on the receiving end of it. I was using 124gr federal hydra shock jhp.

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