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Thread: examiner.com - District Attorney declares most state gun laws unconstitutional

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    examiner.com - District Attorney declares most state gun laws unconstitutional

    Please SUBSCRIBE to this column at http://www.examiner.com/x-2782-DC-Gun-Rights-Examiner

    And DIGG and REDDIT the article at

    http://www.examiner.com/x-2782-DC-Gu...constitutional

    SNIP

    Wisconsin Army National Guard JAG officer, and Jackson County District Attorney, Gerald R. Fox has something to say about the US Supreme Court's decision in McDonald v. Chicago released earlier this week and holding that the Second Amendment's protections apply against state regulation. In a press release Fox declared 5 Wisconsin state statute unconstitutional:

    "I hereby declare that this office will no longer accept law enforcement referrals for violations of the following statutes:

    Section 167.31, prohibiting uncased or loaded firearms in vehicles;

    Section 941.23, prohibiting the carrying of concealed weapons, including firearms;

    . . .
    Last edited by Mike; 07-02-2010 at 12:12 PM.

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    Thanks Mike and John administrator.

  3. #3
    McX
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    we've got to get down on this! just had a customer in the shop, hunting for hubcaps for his collector car. told me how he almost got carjacked in his classic just down the street from the shop last night: he was stopped, stop sign or something. one came in through the driver's side window, the other was on the passenger door trying to open it. he grabbed the one on his side's arm, and drug him down the street for a bit, before letting the pavement have him. and on that note; my home gun will now serve double duty. i'm going with encased, unloaded, and on the front seat next to me. NO MORE VICTIMS! NO MORE STUPID LAWS!

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    In South Carolina where car carry and concealed carry are legal, my CWP instructor taught to "kill a carjacker as soon as he breaks the plane of the window." All of the common law elements of self-defense are met, innocent of instigation, in reasonable fear of harm (plenty of newspaper reports of violent carjackers), there is no opportunity to withdraw, and "kill" is obviously a bit of pedagogical hyperbole (that must have worked because I remember the lecture fifteen years later).

    Believe nothing that you read or hear without verifying it yourself unless if fits your preexisting worldview (to excuse the invincibly ignorant knight_interrupter?)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Huffman View Post
    In South Carolina where car carry and concealed carry are legal, my CWP instructor taught to "kill a carjacker as soon as he breaks the plane of the window." All of the common law elements of self-defense are met, innocent of instigation, in reasonable fear of harm (plenty of newspaper reports of violent carjackers), there is no opportunity to withdraw, and "kill" is obviously a bit of pedagogical hyperbole (that must have worked because I remember the lecture fifteen years later).

    Believe nothing that you read or hear without verifying it yourself unless if fits your preexisting worldview (to excuse the invincibly ignorant knight_interrupter?)
    +1000

  7. #7
    McX
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    this is the second 'pearl harbor' attack on a driving citizen i have heard about from their mouth. the last one got the hell beat out of him, black eyes, black and blue marks, and swelling all over. got away at the last moment. I AM NOT GOING TO BE NEXT!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by McX View Post
    this is the second 'pearl harbor' attack on a driving citizen i have heard about from their mouth. the last one got the hell beat out of him, black eyes, black and blue marks, and swelling all over. got away at the last moment. I AM NOT GOING TO BE NEXT!!!
    And until people carry unloaded and un-encased in their vehicles and are arrested and charged with the offense, there will be no challenge, no win, no clarity.

    It is the only way short of hoping that our legislators will actually do their jobs.

    I am not advocating anyone breaking the "laws" but if there are District Attorneys out there that are stating that these laws are unconstitutional, then what are we to do?

    If we can not trust the words of our District Attorneys, then what are we to do?

    All I can say is, JUST DO IT!

    The challenges and answers cannot happen until we do.

  9. #9
    McX
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    mr. gleason, i understand your reasoning. but for now i'm trying to be a law abiding citizen. however...........i will not be a victim. it's getting closer and closer to us. both my son and i will now car carry, in accordance with the law. but as i went through the threads, and past discussions, i see that out of reach is not part of the legal equation, therefor unless i see it in writing i ain't doing it. i may even mount my case right to the damn dash! Keep the mag. in my shirt pocket.

    i also accept as fact doug's interjection of: They break the plane of the window....they get what they deserve!

    criminals and police, prosecutors too take notice: Law abiding citizen taking to the street, protecting himself in a LEGAL manner. any official who can improve my condition is welcome to help!

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    Regular Member Teamtnt2004's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Please SUBSCRIBE to this column at http://www.examiner.com/x-2782-DC-Gun-Rights-Examiner

    And DIGG and REDDIT the article at

    http://www.examiner.com/x-2782-DC-Gu...constitutional

    SNIP

    Wisconsin Army National Guard JAG officer, and Jackson County District Attorney, Gerald R. Fox has something to say about the US Supreme Court's decision in McDonald v. Chicago released earlier this week and holding that the Second Amendment's protections apply against state regulation. In a press release Fox declared 5 Wisconsin state statute unconstitutional:

    "I hereby declare that this office will no longer accept law enforcement referrals for violations of the following statutes:

    Section 167.31, prohibiting uncased or loaded firearms in vehicles;

    Section 941.23, prohibiting the carrying of concealed weapons, including firearms;

    . . .
    Now if we can just get them all to do this all over WI, and the rest of the country!

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    Campaign Veteran logan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teamtnt2004 View Post
    Now if we can just get them all to do this all over WI, and the rest of the country!
    +1
    Logan - Laugh lots, Love Often, and Defend the Irreplaceable
    Walther PPS 9mm, Ruger LCP
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    Wisconsin Carry, Inc., Rocky Mountain Gun Owners, and National Rifle Association

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    Quote Originally Posted by McX View Post
    mr. gleason, i understand your reasoning. but for now i'm trying to be a law abiding citizen. however...........i will not be a victim. it's getting closer and closer to us. both my son and i will now car carry, in accordance with the law. but as i went through the threads, and past discussions, i see that out of reach is not part of the legal equation, therefor unless i see it in writing i ain't doing it. i may even mount my case right to the damn dash! Keep the mag. in my shirt pocket.

    i also accept as fact doug's interjection of: They break the plane of the window....they get what they deserve!

    criminals and police, prosecutors too take notice: Law abiding citizen taking to the street, protecting himself in a LEGAL manner. any official who can improve my condition is welcome to help!
    I understand you want to be law abiding. What if all of the DA's in this state agree with Mr. Fox? It may take several blows for a criminal to break the glass on your vehicle, in reality do you have enough time to uncase and load up?
    Like I said I am not advocating violating any laws, but if the laws them self are unconstitutional then are they in fact laws at all?
    My thoughts are that if you actually wait until the thug breaks your window then you are in fact a law abiding citizen. It is much like those of us who carry in city parks or county parks even though there are ordinances that state prohibition. Those ordinances may be un enforceable yet they still exist. Does that then mean you are not law abiding for carrying in the park?
    There will be many challenges in the coming days and as I stated before the answers and the clarity will not come with out the challenges.

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    Regular Member Optimus Prime's Avatar
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    I blogged about it just now, and I'm still kinda speechless. The implications on this are going to be pretty wide reaching methinks. It should be interesting to see what the chief LEOs in the county say about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus Prime View Post
    I blogged about it just now, and I'm still kinda speechless. The implications on this are going to be pretty wide reaching methinks. It should be interesting to see what the chief LEOs in the county say about it.

    http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/97680129.html
    www.wisconsincarry.org Wisconsin Carry, Inc. is not affiliated with opencarry.org or these web forums. Questions about discussion forum policy or forum moderation should be directed to the owners of opencarry.org not Wisconsin Carry, Inc.

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    Regular Member Optimus Prime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wisconsin Carry, Inc. - Chairman View Post
    Heh. Anybody else sick of hearing "wild west" anything when it comes to OC/CCW? That alone made a good amount of his credibility die in my eyes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus Prime View Post
    Heh. Anybody else sick of hearing "wild west" anything when it comes to OC/CCW? That alone made a good amount of his credibility die in my eyes.
    Totally agree... Its like saying the earth is flat. Instant proof of ignorance...
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  17. #17
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    i've been buisy; i have a dockson sport case, wasn't realy in the mood to spend more money, soft side was discounted as i needed one finger, and less than 5 seconds, which is all i may get, and less than 2 seconds to open a double latched case. enter the brake line; formed a "whammy" bar lip extension that is anchored to the 2 plastic 'locks', then put a shorter one, both of these formed to me, shorter one up on the top- set at an angle, that allows me to hit the whammy bar on the bottom, and sweep upward with my hand, and immediately engage the top cover bar- lifting it, latches with the whammy bar in use open downward. total time; into the case, gun out, mag. load from my shirt pocket- no screwups- 4 to 5 seconds- rack one in add 2 seconds. this may prove to be the most important 7 seconds of my life someday. you aren't going to see this case on the shelves at S-Mart. also lubed the case lips where they meet for smooth no hang ups opening. you want to see it? come pokin', by the shop.

    added on edit; desinged it to sit on the seat next to me, facing forward, whammy forward.

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    car jacking and open carry with my wife

    about 5 years ago my wife nearly got car jacked on South Park street, right near the Beltline, after taking a night class down that way. stopped at a stoplight and a guy moved in front of her car and started pounding on the hood, another guy stood behind the car pounding on the trunk and a third guy was walking toward her window when she cranked the wheel to get around the guy in front of her and ran the red light to get away. about a month later i bought her a walther p22 for her birthday (she's only 5'3" and doesn't have a lot of upper body strength, figured we'd work up to a .380 or *maybe* a 9mm). anyway, she's only fired it twice and despite saying she wants to learn how, always as an excuse not to.

    all that aside, she's gradually coming around to the idea of me open carrying (even said angrily, when we heard a talk show host on The Mic 92.1 say that now that supreme court made their ruling that he needs to be afraid of anyone pulling out a gun and blowing his brains out, that the people who (open) carry legally aren't the ones he needs to be worried about). still, though, she says if she saw someone open carrying when shopping (alone or with our 2.5 year old) she's going to high tail it the other way just in case. frustrating attitude, but it's better than saying she'd call the cops, which is what she was saying a month ago.

    and yes, i said The Mic 921...i'm one of those rare liberal gun owners. so i get it from both sides on this issue. which is a lot of fun.

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    This is not legal advice!!

    Here is a statement from legal counsel but THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE:

    In short the DA can certainly do this. As the elected DA he enjoys prosecutorial discretion, which means he is free to prosecute only the cases he wants to prosecute. There is nothing that prevents him from doing this. The state of Wisconsin can't force him to charge a case and the AG has limited authority to prosecute crimes directly. This authority is generally limited to securities, tax and organized crime cases. There are others but to my knowledge none of them related to the gun laws.

    A few words of caution
    -

    1. This is the DA saying he won't prosecute. It is not the police saying they won't arrest or detain someone. They (LEO) are still within their authority to write tickets, arrest people, etc.

    2. this DA can change his mind at any time so while this is great, people should still be a cautions. If he does not announce a change of policy there may be a defense of entrapment or a due process violation but that is an issue for down the road.

    3. the DA has listed express laws he will no longer prosecute, but has only given a sampling of the laws he believes are still valid. Anyone who spends time in Jackson County should limit their behavior to those statutes that he expressly stated he will not prosecute if they want to avoid a criminal charge. (Again, this doesn't mean one wouldn't be arrested or ticketed).

    McDonald and Heller are great cases but they don't invalidate all gun laws and there will be more litigation to flesh out further what is and is not legal.

    On the whole, this is great news and we hope other DA's and maybe some police chiefs will follow suit.
    Again to clarify, THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE

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    This is the email I sent to DA Fox:


    Your press release‏
    From: James Gleason (j.gleason@hotmail.com)
    Sent: Fri 7/02/10 1:17 PM
    To: gerald.fox@da.wi.gov
    Mr. Fox,

    I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for your press release concerning the unconstitutional firearms laws of this state. It comes at a much needed time in our state. It is refreshing to see someone in a position such as yours with such common sense. It is Americans such as yourself that will help get this state and country back on track once again.

    Thank you for your service to both this country and the State of Wisconsin. I am honored.

    Sincerely,


    James A Gleason.



    This is his response:


    RE: Your press release‏
    From: Fox, Gerald (Gerald.Fox@da.wi.gov)
    Sent: Fri 7/02/10 3:50 PM
    To: James Gleason (j.gleason@hotmail.com)
    Thanks, Mr. Gleason, but I am just doing my duty as I see it, and I fully expect alot of my colleagues across the state to disagree with my position. Even my Chief of Police says this will lead to Wild West days in Black River Falls. He's wrong, of course, but what a quote.

    Gerald R. Fox
    Jackson County District Attorney
    Courthouse, Second Floor
    307 Main Street
    Black River Falls, WI 54615
    (715) 284-0242
    gerald.fox@da.wi.gov

  21. #21
    Regular Member Optimus Prime's Avatar
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    Mr. Fox has quickly jumped on my list of good people.

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus Prime View Post
    Heh. Anybody else sick of hearing "wild west" anything when it comes to OC/CCW? That alone made a good amount of his credibility die in my eyes.
    It is ridiculous. Every Western I've ever seen it was people OC'ing who have had duels. We haven't had issues up 'till now. I'm not sure why making CC legal would add to 'Wild West'.

  23. #23
    Regular Member Optimus Prime's Avatar
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    I've blogged a little about my dislike of the term before here: http://gunscoffee.blogspot.com/2010/...s-fashion.html

    ---Anybody who watched the History Channel back when it was about History probably knows that the whole violent aspect of the "Wild" West mythos is widely overblown. Eugene Hollen's book Frontier Violence: Another Look tells us that-

    In Abilene, Ellsworth, Wichita, Dodge City, and Caldwell, for the years from 1870 to 1885, there were only 45 total homicides. This equates to a rate of approximately 1 murder per 100,000 residents per year.

    In Abilene, supposedly one of the wildest of the cow towns, not a single person was killed in 1869 or 1870.

    Hardly that violent really. Most major cities in the US have far worse murder rates than that, just look at Chicago (a comparatively whopping 15.6 per 100,000), where guns are completely banned! The anti's will continue to equate any widely accepted carry of weapons, open or concealed, to accomplishing nothing but reverting the country (or state, or town, or whatever) back to the "Wild West." Really doesn't sound like a bad thing to me.---

    Yet the Anti's insist on using the term.

  24. #24
    Regular Member davegran's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    I sent the following email to DA Fox:

    Dear District Attorney Fox,
    I read your news release first with shock, then with disbelief, and then with tears of joy! Finally a law enforcement official who has come out against the dirty little lie that gun laws protect innocent people. You sir, have my greatest thanks for cutting a wide swath through the legal jungle that is Wisconsin gun laws and bringing some real "Common Sense" to our state.

    I'm sure that you will face a barrage of negative comments from all over the country, but don't lose sight of the fact that The Second Amendment is there for a reason very dear to all citizens of the United States; to protect our God-given right to defend ourselves against a criminal element that knows no limits on their ability to harm and terrorize an unarmed victim.

    I don't live in Jackson County but I am a resident of Wisconsin who has lately been practicing Open Carry. If your name ever comes up in a state-wide or national election you can be sure that my thanks to you comes with a vote attached.


    I received a reply from him but since this limitation was sent with it, I don't feel comfortable sharing without his permission.

    This email message may contain information that is attorney work product, law enforcement confidential, personal in nature, or otherwise legally privileged, and should not be released for any purpose without written permission in advance. Any unauthorized release, disclosure or other use may result in administrative or criminal sanctions.


    Dave

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davegran View Post
    I sent the following email to DA Fox:



    I received a reply from him but since this limitation was sent with it, I don't feel comfortable sharing without his permission.

    This email message may contain information that is attorney work product, law enforcement confidential, personal in nature, or otherwise legally privileged, and should not be released for any purpose without written permission in advance. Any unauthorized release, disclosure or other use may result in administrative or criminal sanctions.


    Dave
    I ignored it. Oh well.

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