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Thread: Fundamental Rights and the ARS

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    Regular Member AZkopper's Avatar
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    Fundamental Rights and the ARS

    So, as some of you might know, a District Attorney in WI has unilaterally decided to no longer accept charges for a host of gun law violations, since the SCOTUS has declared that the RTKBA is a Fundamental Right. Of the laws he will not enforce, they include the 'guns in bars' law of WI.

    With that as the first positive legal response to the McDonald decision, I was wondering if we should press our legislators and county attorneys about our own (however few) gun laws which infringe on our "Fundamental Rights". Specifically, ARS 4-244.29 (Prohibiting possession of firearms where alcohol is sold for on-premise consumption unless permitted by law, carried concealed, and with Permit), ARS 4-244.30 (Prohibiting establishment operators from allowing firearms where alcohol is sold for on-premise consumption, unless permitted by law, carried concealed, and with permit), and ARS 4-244.31 (Consumption while armed).

    The new law that goes in to affect on July 29th pretty much clears everying else up, unless I'm forgetting something.

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    You might want to check with AZCDL on that issue. To my knowledge AZ-ARS 4-229 remains as written after 7/29 - AZCCW permit needed.

    I was informed several months ago that AZCDL is working to change the restaurant law in Arizona.

    Hope the NRA doesn't catch on and offer to "help".

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    Regular Member AZkopper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GWbiker View Post
    You might want to check with AZCDL on that issue. To my knowledge AZ-ARS 4-229 remains as written after 7/29 - AZCCW permit needed.

    I was informed several months ago that AZCDL is working to change the restaurant law in Arizona.

    Hope the NRA doesn't catch on and offer to "help".
    Thats my point, ARS 4-229 is the law of the state, and is not affected by Constitutional Carry. I am suggesting we push our County Attorneys to behave as DA Fox did in Wisconsin, and also to push our legislators to repeal 4-229 in light of the McDonald decision.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rondummy View Post
    Personally, I don't think people should be allowed to ban firearms from within their establishments, unless of course the individual is going to be drinking.
    Banning everyone from carrying firearms while drinking is no more than punishing everyone for one person's wrongful behavior. If you want to carry a firearm, that's fine. You're responsible for your own actions. If you want to drink while carrying a firearm, that's fine. You're responsible for your own actions.

    Is it smart to drink and carry? For some people yes, for others no. It doesn't seem to be a problem in other states, such as Pennsylvania, where the law stays out of such silliness and holds the individual accountable if something goes wrong.

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    Regular Member AZkopper's Avatar
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    Thats my point. ARS 4-229 makes a blanket prohibition on a Fundamental Right. A relavant analogy would be that anyone who drinks in a public establishment should be banned from being in possession of car keys. The difference is that driving is not a right, bearing arms is.

    A fundamental right analogy would be that anyone drinking in a pubic establishement cannot vote, or cannot engage in free speech, or waives their right to unreasonble search & seizure by the state. It doesn't fly. So why should AZ's guns in bars law? In abridging a Right, the gov't must show a overwhelming public interest [thats not the correct terminology, but I can't remember what it is]. Since AZ already allows guns in bars conditionally (owners preference + CWP) and there are several states that allow drinking while armed, they would be hard pressed to show such an interest.

    Now, if bar owners want to ban firearms, that is THEIR right, as private property owners.

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    Nevada does not restrict carrying in establishments that sell alcohol for onsite consumption in any way, however, there is a law making it illegal to be in control of a firearm if your BAC is above .10 in public. This does not affect carry in your own home however, until you break a law such as discharging it, threatening other people, etc.

    Our legal limit for driving used to be .10 as well, but was lowered to .08 to get more money from the government, the .10 for firearms was never changed though.

    The law makes perfect sense to me. If you can legally operate a motor vehicle, which is much deadlier then a firearm, then you can carry.

    I understand passing a law allowing carry in said establishments if not consuming as a stepping stone, but that would make having a glass of wine, or a beer with dinner illegal.

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    What about adding campus carry to the list? That seems to me every bit as reasonable as repealing the restaurant carry prohibitions.

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    Regular Member AZkopper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dahwg View Post
    What about adding campus carry to the list? That seems to me every bit as reasonable as repealing the restaurant carry prohibitions.
    There you go, I knew I was forgetting something. While not illegal by statute, the public university, which recieves federal and state money, and is acting as an agent of the state, should not be allowed to ban guns and affect enrollment status of students for being armed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AZkopper View Post
    There you go, I knew I was forgetting something. While not illegal by statute, the public university, which recieves federal and state money, and is acting as an agent of the state, should not be allowed to ban guns and affect enrollment status of students for being armed.
    I believe the AZCDL is working on a piece of legislation to address the campus carry gun ban.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GWbiker View Post
    I believe the AZCDL is working on a piece of legislation to address the campus carry gun ban.
    Yep, at least from what Fred mentioned in another thread. We need to get vocal about it. Especially now, while the wind's at our back. I'd like to see more than just campus carry- I'd like to see school carry. I think it's very bad mojo to have to disarm when I drop my kids of in school. I just am not comfortable leaving my sidearm in the car, and worse is the requirement that it be unloaded. That is an ND waiting to happen.

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