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Thread: Lexington Parade

  1. #1
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    Lexington Parade

    I don't know if anyone here is going but I'll be walking in the parade with the "Ryan Quarles for State House" group. I'll also be OCing! Hope to see others out there as well.

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    Ok, well OCing in the parade didn't go so well. I was waiting with the various Republican floats when a police office motioned me aside. They didn't ask for ID, they didn't harass me, but they said that although I wasn't breaking any law, the parade staff asked them to confront me and let me know that firearms aren't permitted in the parade.

    Now Lexington's Finest were just that--finest. They were professional and courteous, it was the parade staff that violated my civil rights. I spoke with the parade staff and let them know that this was a public event on public property and no laws were being broken.

    Parade Staff: Wearing a firearm in public--what kind of message would that send to impressionable kids? Just a second ago I had to tell some crossdressers on another float not to urinate in public
    Me: I don't think I'm in the same ball park as I'm acting legally & respectfully. I would hope this would convey a message of liberty & patriotism--not violence.
    PS: You just can't carry here, it's against the "rules". You can't carry in city buildings so think of this as an extension of a city building.
    Me: It's not illegal to open carry in city building as it's not illegal here.
    PS: It is illegal, haven't you seen the signs posted?
    Me: I know the law, it might be illegal to conceal carry in city buildings, but not open carry.

    This dude did not have a clue as to what the law says and seemed to dictate that he could make anything a rule and impose it on other people. I'll certainly be taking issue with this with the city on Monday--I'll let yall know how it pans out.

    Afterward--Andy Barr (who's running for 6th district US Congress--and who's a constitutional lawyer) took me aside and said, "You know what they're doing is unconstitutional, right?" Haha, oh yes, I'm well aware.

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    Regular Member rscottie's Avatar
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    Oh the irony...

    The 4th of July is a Celebration of Our Freedom and Independence from Tyranny, yet the tyranny against our rights continue.

    All the more reason to not stand down.

    I wonder if the local newspaper or TV Station would do a piece on this? With Open Carry at the forefront of the restoration of our God-given right to keep and bear arms, it would seem to be something they could run with.
    Last edited by rscottie; 07-04-2010 at 09:34 AM. Reason: typo

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    Regular Member hotrod's Avatar
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    Was the parade one that was organized by Lexington Urban Government or was it a political function in Lexington. I would like to know where the parade was held. On city streets, in a park, on UK campus? I know you know the law concerning carry, open and concealed, and I am glad you stood your ground with the parade represenatives. But most of all, I am glad to hear how the police were. I have open carried in Lexington and no one has said anything to me, but, I have read some terrible post about Lexington and their liberal views on carry. Keep us informed on your Monday meeting. The city may be closed Monday for the 4th holiday.

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    This was organized by LFUCG. It started at the Herald Leader building and ended at Triangle Park--I believe that's Main Street. Yeah, the police were great--it was this parade twerp that was pretty demeaning, illogical, and ignorant.

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    Outrageous. I can't believe the cops played messenger for the guy who was acting outside the law, isntead of telling him to get over himself and backing up your constitutional rights. True, they were courteous and fair, all things considered, but they still didn't do the right thing. How can a public event hosted on public streets have private rules? That's BS.

    Don't let up on this, bro. Take this as far as you can and get all the exposure possible while you do so. At the very least, you deserve an apology.

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    I DID lock up my weapon in a glove box. I was wearing clothing promoting a particular candidate who was there that I was campaigning for and did not want any negative attention drawn to him. I'm sure I might receive some criticism on that part, however I feel as though I acted appropriate considering the circumstances. In my discussion with the parade guy, I did not back off my point.

    I don't have beef with the police like you all do. Though this had nothing to do with them, I could tell that they felt caught in the middle and felt bad for being the messenger. Though they knew OC was completely legal, they perhaps were unaware of any other potential obscure laws that might have banned carrying in a parade setting.

    I definitely WILL take this situation and run with it, as a blatant, unconstitutional mistake was made and needs to be corrected.

  8. #8
    Regular Member FiremanJoe's Avatar
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    Hum, you was walking with a Political Candidate....

    I have done similar being "STAFF" on a campaign escorting the candidate, they like to have a sense of security, I've even been at a rally once asked the county prosecutor why he wasn't packing, basically it was you got yours and the judge has his so were covered kinda thing....

    I only get involve with pro 2 a candidates....
    Favorite recent Quote:
    "As long as I'm prosecutor, if someone comes into a store with a gun – and I've said it before and I'll say it again – they have forfeited their right not to be shot,"
    Hamilton County, Ohio - prosecutor; Joe Deters

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    Good to know you have gun-friendly politicians! Yes, these were gun friendly candidates as well.

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    Well here's the letter I sent to the rec director:
    Ms. Ebel,
    I was the fellow who had tried to call you earlier. *I first wanted to first thank you for a wonderful parade! *I can't imagine how much work it took and how many details to iron out there were. *I did want to call attention to a particular detail and that is the idea of a ban on firearms in the parade.

    I'm not sure if you're aware of the incident that took place on the 3rd. *I was planning to walk for a particular political candidate while openly carrying a loaded weapon. *I was confronted by the Lexington Police Department who told me that I was doing nothing illegal, however they were confronting me on you and your department's behalf. *They mentioned that, while it wasn't against the law to carry in the parade--it was against the parade rules. *A gentleman in your department (I forget his name) then came over and reiterated what the police had said.

    I then explained that I was legally open carrying a weapon on public property and was well within my rights to do so. *The man explained, quite*erroneously--that weapons were prohibited from city buildings and to simply think of the parade as an extension of a city building. *According to Lexington's own*ordinances, he would be incorrect. *Lexington only bans CONCEALED weapons from city BUILDINGS--neither of which apply in this situation.

    Sec. 14-19.4.* Concealed deadly weapons.
    (a)***No person shall carry a concealed deadly weapon in any building or portion of any building owned, leased, occupied or controlled by the urban county government.
    (b)***The prohibition in subsection (a) shall not apply to the following:
    (1)***Any urban county government building used for public housing by private persons;
    (2)***Urban county government highway rest areas;
    (3)***Private dwellings owned, leased or controlled by the urban county government; and
    (4)***Sworn officers in the division of police and other law enforcement officers authorized to carry concealed deadly weapons pursuant to KRS 527.020.

    I would also like to emphasize that open carry is not simply a legal “loophole”. In fact, the Kentucky Constitution protects the right to open carry.

    Section One of the Kentucky Bill of Rights states:
    “Seventh: The right to bear arms in defense of themselves and of the State, subject to the power of the General Assembly to enact laws to prevent persons from carrying CONCEALED weapons.”

    In the precedent set forth from the Kentucky Court of Appeals, Holland V. Commonwealth, it is established that the state legislature can only deny weapons carried in concealed fashion, NOT weapons carried in the open.

    In my conversation with the fellow from your department, he mentioned that the parade committee wanted a family friendly message and then compared what I was doing to the crossdressers that were allegedly urinating in the streets. I fail to see how a school teacher legally & respectfully carrying a firearm in the streets--exercising his 2nd amendment rights which have been defended by firearms--compares to crossdressers urinating in public. For a patriotic event, this sure seems blatantly & ironically unpatriotic.

    Not only does your department not have the authority to ban openly carried firearms, but neither does the city council, and neither does our legislature in Frankfort. It would take a constitutional amendment to regulate open carry. I do hope this was an unintentional oversight. I also hope that this will never happen again with future city events. Again, please note that I am very appreciative of the parade and all the work it took to make it a success. I'm simply concerned 1)for my civil liberties, 2)for any potential legal liabilities that Lexington might incur due to unconstitutional practices. I look forward to your response.


    I'll keep you posted on the response.

  11. #11
    Regular Member hotrod's Avatar
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    You should also advise them that in accordance with KRS 237.110 denying you the right to conceal carry is in violation of the law and the statute gives specific remedies if you wish to sue. Now, I am assuming that concealed or openly carrying , they did not want you there.

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    @hotrod, I checked the statute but I guess I overlooked it. What were you referring to?

    I heard back from the events director:

    "I did get your email and have sent it on to our Department of Law with several questions. I was aware of the situation as I was on Midland Ave. as the parade was lining up. Personally, I don't think loaded weapons should be allowed in the parade. The parade is a family event attended by many children. I was standing next to a woman and her child when told about a man carrying a loaded weapon...her remark was "oh my gosh is this safe?"

    When I get a response from Law, I will get back with you to let you know how we will proceed. It will also be a topic in the festival evaluation meeting."

    My response:
    "I do appreciate your attention to this matter. I certainly have no
    intentions of detracting from the family friendly environment. Guns
    have always been a part of my family--and I would venture to say, most
    Kentuckian families. I am aware of the prejudices towards guns. In
    all reality, a holstered firearm carried in a legal & respectful
    manner is no more dangerous than someone lawfully driving a vehicle.

    I understand where you are coming from. Your opinion on this matter
    is worth as much as mine--practically nothing. What matters here is
    the Constitution & the law and our compliance thereof. I look forward
    to hearing the progress of this issue. Will Mr. Askew's department be
    handling of this? What role does this play in the festival evaluation
    meeting?

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    Update

    I just received this email from Penny Ebel in regards to banning firearms at Lexington'n 4th of July Parade:

    Mike Sanner with the Division of Law has researched the question of whether the Festival rules can prevent someone from openly carrying a loaded weapon in the parade. The answer is no, we can not prohibit you from doing that in spite of the fact that it will most likely cause great concern among parade officials and parade watchers.

    Penny

    Penny B. Ebel
    Special Events Director, Office of the Mayor

  14. #14
    Regular Member neuroblades's Avatar
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    It's a GREAT thing to see justice prevail in this day and age of corrupt officials.
    Got SIG? MOLON LABE

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    Regular Member neuroblades's Avatar
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    Maybe next year we need to have our own group in the parade, "Kentuckians for the 2nd Amendment"! Everyone OC or CC!
    Last edited by neuroblades; 08-16-2010 at 03:55 PM. Reason: grammar
    Got SIG? MOLON LABE

  16. #16
    Regular Member Thos.Jefferson's Avatar
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    I have to say, I will never understand the anti-freedom crowd and their great "concern" for the "feelings" of the public at large. The only time I (or any other rational person) get concerned when I see a person with a gun is when it is POINTING AT ME. What a bunch of pantywaists.
    He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent which will reach to himself. -- Thomas Paine (1737--1809), Dissertation on First Principles of Government, 1795

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