Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 55

Thread: Civil right to bear arms, carry permits, and foreign language speakers

  1. #1
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Brentwood, Tennessee
    Posts
    1,956

    Civil right to bear arms, carry permits, and foreign language speakers

    Now that it is a recognized civil right to bear arms what will be the State responsibility to teach carry permit classes in foreign languages? Applications and instructions in foreign languages? It would seem to me in States where the carry of a loaded firearm is allowed only by permit they will now have to offer foreign speakers the option.

  2. #2
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Washington Island, across Death's Door, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    9,193
    All of those details will have to be hashed out in the states' judicial systems, starting with good cases that will get through the lower courts and make good law. The legal effects of McDonald will not be felt for years, though the political effects will be obvious by 3 November - I hope and pray.

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    36
    Lol you said "Right" and "Permit" in the same sentence.

  4. #4
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Brentwood, Tennessee
    Posts
    1,956
    Quote Originally Posted by wolffe View Post
    Lol you said "Right" and "Permit" in the same sentence.
    Until the system gets straightened out in Tennessee we're stuck with a civil right that really is just a privilege. My lawsuit is the only one I am aware of challenging tca 39-17-1307 which criminalizes all carry of firearms.

  5. #5
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    north mason county, Washington, USA
    Posts
    4,381

    legal carry

    i have followed you efforts for some time,,
    I think you are doing good work,,
    carefull now!!
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  6. #6
    Regular Member ODA 226's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Etzenricht, Germany
    Posts
    1,598
    This is America. English only. My wife is a Croatian and she took her CHP test in ENGLISH.

  7. #7
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Brentwood, Tennessee
    Posts
    1,956
    Quote Originally Posted by ODA 226 View Post
    This is America. English only. My wife is a Croatian and she took her CHP test in ENGLISH.
    The point is, if bearing arms is a civil right no one should need to take a State test before exercising that right. However, if the State requires the class to exercise the right, at a minimum it should be taught, administered in many languages or students should be allowed translators.

  8. #8
    Administrator John Pierce's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Bristol, VA
    Posts
    1,735
    Good point! I agree!

    Quote Originally Posted by kwikrnu View Post
    The point is, if bearing arms is a civil right no one should need to take a State test before exercising that right. However, if the State requires the class to exercise the right, at a minimum it should be taught, administered in many languages or students should be allowed translators.

  9. #9
    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Mattaponi, Virginia, United States
    Posts
    1,664

    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by ODA 226 View Post
    This is America. English only. My wife is a Croatian and she took her CHP test in ENGLISH.
    I don't recollect where the constitution said, 'certain unalienable right, for english speakers.'

    These rights pre-exist gov't based on our Humanity. They are God given rights. I fail to see how language is an issue. Do you know what language God speaks? Can you name a single prophet who required his followers to speak a different language?

    I think anyone living in America should know English. I would never try and make Rights contingent upon it.

    You can't legislate morality.

  10. #10
    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Mattaponi, Virginia, United States
    Posts
    1,664

    Lightbulb

    Only problem with this idea, is that the permit classes are PRIVATE and small companies. Expecting them to have someone who speaks 345 languages is not reasonable.

    Just another strike against permitting at all. It's fundamentally elitist in reality.

  11. #11
    Campaign Veteran XD-GEM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    New Orleans, Louisiana, USA
    Posts
    722
    I've been wondering about something along these lines since the McDonald ruling.

    The majority opinion rejected the idea of incorporation under the "Priveleges and Immunities" clause, but accepted it under "Due Process." If I understood correctly, the argument against "Priveleges and Immunities" was that the right to keep and bear arms was not a privilege or immunity of citizenship, but pre-dated the Constitution.

    If that's so, then doesn't it mean that the right extends without qualification to non-citizens who are here? By due process, they could lose that right for committing crimes, but up until such time, there should be no prohibition of that right.

    Am I seeing this correctly?

  12. #12
    Regular Member ODA 226's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Etzenricht, Germany
    Posts
    1,598
    Quote Originally Posted by simmonsjoe View Post
    I don't recollect where the constitution said, 'certain unalienable right, for english speakers.'

    These rights pre-exist gov't based on our Humanity. They are God given rights. I fail to see how language is an issue. Do you know what language God speaks? Can you name a single prophet who required his followers to speak a different language?

    I think anyone living in America should know English. I would never try and make Rights contingent upon it.

    You can't legislate morality.
    Joe,

    I think you miss understand my train of thought here.
    We are currently experiencing the "Balkanization of America" because we are no longer united by a common cause or language. The beginning of the end of the United States as we knew it began when we started identifying ourselves not as Americans but as "African-Anglo-Asian or Hispanic Americans". This serves to DIVIDE and not UNITE us as ONE PEOPLE.

    A common language serves to unite us as a common people and as a nation.

    CRaig

  13. #13
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Brentwood, Tennessee
    Posts
    1,956
    Quote Originally Posted by ODA 226 View Post
    A common language serves to unite us as a common people and as a nation.
    I agree, but you can't violate someone's civil rights simply because they don't speak your language. It is akin to violating someone's rights because they are not the same race. IMO.

  14. #14
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Fairborn, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    13,063
    Quote Originally Posted by XD-GEM View Post
    I've been wondering about something along these lines since the McDonald ruling.

    The majority opinion rejected the idea of incorporation under the "Priveleges and Immunities" clause, but accepted it under "Due Process." If I understood correctly, the argument against "Priveleges and Immunities" was that the right to keep and bear arms was not a privilege or immunity of citizenship, but pre-dated the Constitution.

    If that's so, then doesn't it mean that the right extends without qualification to non-citizens who are here? By due process, they could lose that right for committing crimes, but up until such time, there should be no prohibition of that right.

    Am I seeing this correctly?
    I agree that non-citizens have all rights that do not follow from citizenship. (For example, voting follows from citizenship; non-citizens should not vote.) However, folks who are here illegally, with intent to be here illegally, have committed a crime. So, the determination, following due process, that one is here illegally, would carry with it, as a consequence, all the restrictions on rights legislated against illegals.

    However, folks here on visas morally (if not legally; I don't know) have the RKBA.

  15. #15
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Fairborn, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    13,063
    Quote Originally Posted by kwikrnu View Post
    I agree, but you can't violate someone's civil rights simply because they don't speak your language. It is akin to violating someone's rights because they are not the same race. IMO.
    The way to avoid violating their rights is not to require a test or a course. Then language does not matter.

  16. #16
    Regular Member ODA 226's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Etzenricht, Germany
    Posts
    1,598
    Quote Originally Posted by kwikrnu View Post
    I agree, but you can't violate someone's civil rights simply because they don't speak your language. It is akin to violating someone's rights because they are not the same race. IMO.
    This is a reason why we need to make English the official language of the United States.

  17. #17
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Washington Island, across Death's Door, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    9,193
    Quote Originally Posted by ODA 226 View Post
    This is a reason why we need to make English the official language of the United States.
    I agree! I do so agree. It needs, too, to be the official language of OCDO forum instead of this post-modern agrammatical unlettered illiterate crap tolerated here.

    Replace "race" with culture and there is no problem disparaging Islamists. Anyone using the term 'race' needs be able to properly define and discuss it.
    Last edited by Doug Huffman; 07-05-2010 at 07:31 PM.

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Granite State of Mind
    Posts
    4,508
    Quote Originally Posted by ODA 226 View Post
    We are currently experiencing the "Balkanization of America" because we are no longer united by a common cause or language.
    I was just watching a show about immigration and naturalization. Second-generation Americans from immigrant parents speak English at a rate of 90%, which is the highest it's ever been.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Newport News, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    4,961

    WHat a knuckleheaded comment!

    Quote Originally Posted by ODA 226 View Post
    This is America. English only. My wife is a Croatian and she took her CHP test in ENGLISH.
    What makes you think that you have the right To dictate English Only?

    My great grandfather was a Native American, why must I speak only English? The right to bear arms is a universal and god given right. My ancestors had that right BEFORE any English speakers appeared on this continent, and they have treaty rights to maintain our language and culture.

    Remember, all men are created equal, not just those that speak English.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

  20. #20
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Fairborn, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    13,063
    Quote Originally Posted by ODA 226 View Post
    This is a reason why we need to make English the official language of the United States.
    As I said earlier, the way to avoid violating rights of non-English speakers is not to require a test or a course.

    That being said, I agree that English needs to be the agreed upon language in this nation. That is not to say that other languages cannot be used, but all official communications need only be in English. Warnings in 16 languages on packaging is getting just a tad ridiculous.

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SLC, Utah, USA
    Posts
    144
    Quote Originally Posted by ODA 226 View Post
    This is America. English only. My wife is a Croatian and she took her CHP test in ENGLISH.
    Tell your wife to tell her "people" thanks for the HS2000 aka Springfield XD

  22. #22
    Regular Member ODA 226's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Etzenricht, Germany
    Posts
    1,598
    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    What makes you think that you have the right To dictate English Only?

    My great grandfather was a Native American, why must I speak only English? The right to bear arms is a universal and god given right. My ancestors had that right BEFORE any English speakers appeared on this continent, and they have treaty rights to maintain our language and culture.

    Remember, all men are created equal, not just those that speak English.
    Thundar,
    Big deal. My mother's half of the family are native Hawaiians. I am 50% Native Hawaiian. My family speaks Hawaiian in my mother's house and back home on the island. In my house we speak English, Croatian and on some occasions, German.

    Do you really propose that every legal document in America should be translated by our government for anyone who chooses to live in our country and refuse to learn our common language? There are over 250 spoken languages in the world. Please tell me your solution to the OP's question. And BTW: You know that I believe the right to bear arms is a universal and God given right...
    Craig
    Last edited by ODA 226; 07-05-2010 at 11:25 PM.

  23. #23
    Regular Member ODA 226's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Etzenricht, Germany
    Posts
    1,598
    Quote Originally Posted by YoZUpZ View Post
    Tell your wife to tell her "people" thanks for the HS2000 aka Springfield XD
    Sure will!

  24. #24
    Regular Member ODA 226's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Etzenricht, Germany
    Posts
    1,598
    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    I was just watching a show about immigration and naturalization. Second-generation Americans from immigrant parents speak English at a rate of 90%, which is the highest it's ever been.
    I do not believe that data is true. QFT please. Worst of all is the Hyphenization of one's ethnicity before the word AMERICAN.

    In the former Jugoslavia under Tito, everyone was a Jugoslav. When Tito died, people began to identify themselves with their ethnicity (Croat, Serb, Muslim, Slovene, Albanian or Montenegrin) and thousands of people were slaughtered because of that.

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Michigan, USA
    Posts
    902

    Really...

    Quote Originally Posted by ODA 226 View Post
    This is America. English only. My wife is a Croatian and she took her CHP test in ENGLISH.
    There is no "official language" at the federal level. It isn't there.

    What about New Mexico and Hawaii? Both states have dual official languages according to their state constitutions.

    Perhaps none of that should matter because YOU don't approve of it.

    This is an interesting concept about classes and permits being available in different languages, it is a fundamental right and I'm for anything that makes the licensing system harder to keep in existance.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •