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Thread: Holland PD Encounter:July 3, 2010 at Kollen Park, Celebration Freedom Festival

  1. #1
    Regular Member MarineSgt's Avatar
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    Holland PD Encounter:July 3, 2010 at Kollen Park, Celebration Freedom Festival

    My wife and I decide to go to Kollen Park in Holland for the “Celebration Freedom Festival” they are having. My wife is pregnant and we take our two girls, which are 1.5 and 2.5 years along with us. I’m open carrying a HK USP .40 in a Blackhawk Serpa CQC holster. After walking around for about a half an hour and letting the kids do some activities we sit down to listen to a band play on the steel drums. We pull the wagon with our girls in it off of the path and sit down in the grass. Once I get settled I notice two Holland PD lieutenants walking down the path. I notice they are walking towards me while pretending to be walking past me. That is when I greet them. They take a step past me in order to see my side and then start talking to me.
    This is the first time I OC’d with my wife along and she was really embarrassed; almost to the point of crying and wanting to leave. Some “Celebration Freedom Festival”!

    Me: How ya’ doin?
    Cop 1: Do you have an ID for carrying.
    Me: I do. I have an ID.
    Cop 1: Ok, may I see it?
    Me: No.
    Cop 1: Why not?
    Me: What do you need to see my ID for?
    Cop 1: Because we have a lot of people around here, you’re carrying a gun and they’re worried about it.
    Me: That’s fine.
    Me: It’s not illegal.
    Cop 1: Well I need to see a permit.
    Me: Permit for what?
    Cop 1: Carry.
    Me: For open carrying?
    Cop 1: Yeah.
    Me: There is no permits for open carrying.
    *Cops pause*
    Me: There is no permits for open carrying.
    Cop 1: Do you think it’s cool scaring people or, what?
    Me: It’s not cool.
    Cop 1: Ok well.
    Me: It’s my right. (Not sure if I actually got *right* out of my mouth)
    Cop 2: We just wanna see a CCW permit. (I think this is what he said, he said something about CCW but I didn't catch it so I ignored him and continued talking to Cop 1)
    Me: You have, you have a firearm.
    Cop 1: Ya.
    Me: Are people scared of your firearm?
    *Pause*
    Cop 1: Ok.
    Me: Am I doing anything illegal?
    *Pause*
    Me: *shaking head* No. <with emphasis>
    Cop 1: No... not right now.
    Me: Ok, thanks. *I turn my head away from him to signify that we're done talking*
    *Cops stand there for a moment and then turn and leave*
    Me-> to my daughter: Want to blow some bubbles?



    This transcript is pretty accurate. I listened to the recording but the steel drums were playing in the background and made it difficult in a few spots.

    I'm loading the audio into YouTube right now...
    Last edited by MarineSgt; 07-04-2010 at 12:42 AM.

  2. #2
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    Snot bubbles !!!


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    Regular Member Curmudgeon's Avatar
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    Semper fi ! !

  4. #4
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    Those steel drums actually made the perfect background music

    Do you have a link to the vid, I cant wait to see the comments.

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    Regular Member Curmudgeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    Those steel drums actually made the perfect background music

    Do you have a link to the vid, I cant wait to see the comments.
    You can always just click the white-lettered title within the embedded vid.


    or here... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvhT7...layer_embedded
    .

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    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Smile

    You handled this great! Good Job!

    + 100k

  7. #7
    Regular Member cmdr_iceman71's Avatar
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    Good stuff man! Semper Fi

    That is sorta a wet dream of mine to be able to talk to Detroit police like that and have them leave me alone after getting them to acknowledge that I'm not breaking any law and then refusing to show I.D.
    "Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth." - President George Washington

    "Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." - Thomas Jefferson

    "He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." - Thomas Paine

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    Regular Member fozzy71's Avatar
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    Very well played. I had planned to carry a concealed BUG after I get my CPL but I might just OC my BUG as well so I have no duty to give my ID/CPL in these situations.
    "I like users who quote smellslikemichigan in their signature lines." - fozzy71

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    Regular Member MarineSgt's Avatar
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    Thanks for the support! The "wash, rinse, repeat", "OC Experiences Thread", and people posting audio of their encounters were instrumental in giving me the confidence to OC. The biggest booster to me was the Muskegon County Gun Board meeting where they took his CPL.

    Why is it that WE always are expected to bend our principles in order to conform to others principles? Who's principles are greater? We have Justice and Truth on our side!

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    very nicely handled!

    I like how you asked him about people being afraid of his gun. I always make it a point during an encounter to mention to the officers the irony/hypocrisy that they too are open carrying while hassling me for doing exactly the same thing.

    Last time i refused to provide id while oc'ing i was disarmed and tossed into the back of a police car.

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    Nice! You asserted your rights without being rude. Once the officers realized you would not be intimidated, they left you alone. I like it. By they way, did you notice any of the supposed "scared people" running for help while you were there? I've heard this statement multiple times and I like to turn around and ask (as people are milling around not even noticing me) which of these people are scared? Keep up the good work.

  12. #12
    Regular Member MarineSgt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scot623 View Post
    Nice! You asserted your rights without being rude. Once the officers realized you would not be intimidated, they left you alone. I like it. By they way, did you notice any of the supposed "scared people" running for help while you were there? I've heard this statement multiple times and I like to turn around and ask (as people are milling around not even noticing me) which of these people are scared? Keep up the good work.
    Even doing my best to be situationally aware, I did not notice anyone react to my firearm. We were there from 3:00 pm to 7:00 pm. That was the only issue I had. I counted at least 8 different Police Officers working the event.

  13. #13
    Regular Member kryptonian's Avatar
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    handled well

    good job. liked the "are people scared of your gun?". you know once you goaleed a couple of lieutenants that they told the others to not bother you. would be interested to know how many people were concerned. police tend to be vague or exaggerate the alarm your weapon caused. in my bad LEO encounter the officer said calls were flooding in and 20 of my neighbors wanted something done to stop me. they are dispatched thru oakland county so i called them and found out there was one call and i don't have 20 neighbors. that officer was supposed to be off duty at a 4th of july party i was at last night but didn't show. damn!!!!
    i take something from every posted and recorded encounters and store it in my 'just in case' mental folder. hopefully won't need them and that the encounters are less and less necessary as LEOs give up on trying to intimidate the educated.
    once again - good job and tell the mrs. to get on board and show a unified front so the officers and your kids don't see a conflicted family.

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    Regular Member kryptonian's Avatar
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    ren fest

    oh yeah. isn't ren fest in holly? what's the policy there? i've CC there but if i remember right there's a no weapon rule there that i ignored. have to pay to get in which probably means no OC. probably answered my own question.

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    Regular Member malignity's Avatar
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    All open weapons (ie, swords, daggers, flintlock pistols) have to be peacebound at the renn fest. As for a real functioning weapon, I'm thinking they won't like that much.

    The policy changed last year, allowing swords, etc. in.
    All opinions posted on opencarry.org are my own, and do not necessarily reflect the views of opencarry.org or Michigan Open Carry Inc.

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    Well done Sir!

    "Am I doing anything illegal?" --- pause

    "Uh, not right now." (then why are you hassling the poor guy?)

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    Me: Am I doing anything illegal?
    *Pause*
    Me: *shaking head* No. <with emphasis>
    Cop 1: No... not right now.
    Me: Ok, thanks.
    "These aren't the 'droids you're looking for."


  18. #18
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    snot bubbles, indeed!
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
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    Regular Member LaVere's Avatar
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    If I'm ever stopped I hope I am that cool, Realy. Way to go!!!
    The use of force is a last resort. One aspect of violence is that it is unpredictable. Although your initial intention may be to use limited force, once you have engaged in violence the consequences are unpredictable. Violence always brings about unexpected results and almost always provokes retaliation.

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    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarineSgt View Post
    This is the first time I OC’d with my wife along and she was really embarrassed; almost to the point of crying and wanting to leave.
    I hope your wife feels better, in retrospect, about this encounter. Being at the forefront of exercising and protecting our liberties brings with it the risk of being confronted by those who detest liberty. That is among the most important reasons we do it, to remind those who dislike liberty that their intimidation will not succeed.

    It's not all a walk among the roses. Your wife got a taste of that. I hope she understands the big picture and continues to support you.

  21. #21
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by DanM View Post
    I hope your wife feels better, in retrospect, about this encounter. Being at the forefront of exercising and protecting our liberties brings with it the risk of being confronted by those who detest liberty. That is among the most important reasons we do it, to remind those who dislike liberty that their intimidation will not succeed.

    It's not all a walk among the roses. Your wife got a taste of that. I hope she understands the big picture and continues to support you.
    Yep dealing with the anti freedom folks can be a pain! BUT it is very necessary!!
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
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    Well done!!



    Quote Originally Posted by MarineSgt View Post
    My wife and I decide to go to Kollen Park in Holland for the “Celebration Freedom Festival” they are having. My wife is pregnant and we take our two girls, which are 1.5 and 2.5 years along with us. I’m open carrying a HK USP .40 in a Blackhawk Serpa CQC holster. After walking around for about a half an hour and letting the kids do some activities we sit down to listen to a band play on the steel drums. We pull the wagon with our girls in it off of the path and sit down in the grass. Once I get settled I notice two Holland PD lieutenants walking down the path. I notice they are walking towards me while pretending to be walking past me. That is when I greet them. They take a step past me in order to see my side and then start talking to me.
    This is the first time I OC’d with my wife along and she was really embarrassed; almost to the point of crying and wanting to leave. Some “Celebration Freedom Festival”!

    Me: How ya’ doin?
    Cop 1: Do you have an ID for carrying.
    Me: I do. I have an ID.
    Cop 1: Ok, may I see it?
    Me: No.
    Cop 1: Why not?
    Me: What do you need to see my ID for?
    Cop 1: Because we have a lot of people around here, you’re carrying a gun and they’re worried about it.
    Me: That’s fine.
    Me: It’s not illegal.
    Cop 1: Well I need to see a permit.
    Me: Permit for what?
    Cop 1: Carry.
    Me: For open carrying?
    Cop 1: Yeah.
    Me: There is no permits for open carrying.
    *Cops pause*
    Me: There is no permits for open carrying.
    Cop 1: Do you think it’s cool scaring people or, what?
    Me: It’s not cool.
    Cop 1: Ok well.
    Me: It’s my right. (Not sure if I actually got *right* out of my mouth)
    Cop 2: We just wanna see a CCW permit. (I think this is what he said, he said something about CCW but I didn't catch it so I ignored him and continued talking to Cop 1)
    Me: You have, you have a firearm.
    Cop 1: Ya.
    Me: Are people scared of your firearm?
    *Pause*
    Cop 1: Ok.
    Me: Am I doing anything illegal?
    *Pause*
    Me: *shaking head* No. <with emphasis>
    Cop 1: No... not right now.
    Me: Ok, thanks. *I turn my head away from him to signify that we're done talking*
    *Cops stand there for a moment and then turn and leave*
    Me-> to my daughter: Want to blow some bubbles?



    This transcript is pretty accurate. I listened to the recording but the steel drums were playing in the background and made it difficult in a few spots.

    I'm loading the audio into YouTube right now...
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

  23. #23
    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    Great Job!
    "Bam, I like saying bam when I cite something, in fact I think I shall do this from here on out, as long as I remember.
    Bam!" - eastmeyers

    "Then said he to them, But now he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his sack: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
    Luke 22:36
    God Bless

  24. #24
    Regular Member Jblack44's Avatar
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    that was classic!! I was in Holland this weekend. We didn't make it to the fireworks though. two thumbs up!!!!

  25. #25
    Regular Member MarineSgt's Avatar
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    Thanks! If I sounded cool and collected in the audio I sure didn't feel that way! Let me know if you find any discrepancies between the audio and the transcript I posted.

    ETA: My wife still isn't on board the OC train yet. She seems to think that I want the attention of the LEOs and that I'm baiting them when I wear my "Don't tread on me" shirt. I figured the 4th was a good day to wear that shirt!
    Someone who can't be trusted to walk free in public with a firearm shouldn't be walking around free.

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