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Holland PD Encounter:July 3, 2010 at Kollen Park, Celebration Freedom Festival

MarineSgt

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2009
Messages
195
Location
Allendale, Michigan, USA
My wife and I decide to go to Kollen Park in Holland for the “Celebration Freedom Festival” they are having. My wife is pregnant and we take our two girls, which are 1.5 and 2.5 years along with us. I’m open carrying a HK USP .40 in a Blackhawk Serpa CQC holster. After walking around for about a half an hour and letting the kids do some activities we sit down to listen to a band play on the steel drums. We pull the wagon with our girls in it off of the path and sit down in the grass. Once I get settled I notice two Holland PD lieutenants walking down the path. I notice they are walking towards me while pretending to be walking past me. That is when I greet them. They take a step past me in order to see my side and then start talking to me.
This is the first time I OC’d with my wife along and she was really embarrassed; almost to the point of crying and wanting to leave. Some “Celebration Freedom Festival”!

Me: How ya’ doin?
Cop 1: Do you have an ID for carrying.
Me: I do. I have an ID.
Cop 1: Ok, may I see it?
Me: No.
Cop 1: Why not?
Me: What do you need to see my ID for?
Cop 1: Because we have a lot of people around here, you’re carrying a gun and they’re worried about it.
Me: That’s fine.
Me: It’s not illegal.
Cop 1: Well I need to see a permit.
Me: Permit for what?
Cop 1: Carry.
Me: For open carrying?
Cop 1: Yeah.
Me: There is no permits for open carrying.
*Cops pause*
Me: There is no permits for open carrying.
Cop 1: Do you think it’s cool scaring people or, what?
Me: It’s not cool.
Cop 1: Ok well.
Me: It’s my right. (Not sure if I actually got *right* out of my mouth)
Cop 2: We just wanna see a CCW permit. (I think this is what he said, he said something about CCW but I didn't catch it so I ignored him and continued talking to Cop 1)
Me: You have, you have a firearm.
Cop 1: Ya.
Me: Are people scared of your firearm?
*Pause*
Cop 1: Ok.
Me: Am I doing anything illegal?
*Pause*
Me: *shaking head* No. <with emphasis>
Cop 1: No... not right now.
Me: Ok, thanks. *I turn my head away from him to signify that we're done talking*
*Cops stand there for a moment and then turn and leave*
Me-> to my daughter: Want to blow some bubbles?



This transcript is pretty accurate. I listened to the recording but the steel drums were playing in the background and made it difficult in a few spots.

I'm loading the audio into YouTube right now...
[video=youtube;dvhT7tW-NW0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvhT7tW-NW0&feature=youtube_gdata[/video]
 
Last edited:

cmdr_iceman71

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2010
Messages
409
Location
Detroit, Michigan, USA
Good stuff man! Semper Fi

That is sorta a wet dream of mine to be able to talk to Detroit police like that and have them leave me alone after getting them to acknowledge that I'm not breaking any law and then refusing to show I.D.
 

fozzy71

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2010
Messages
921
Location
Roseville, Michigan, USA
Very well played. I had planned to carry a concealed BUG after I get my CPL but I might just OC my BUG as well so I have no duty to give my ID/CPL in these situations.
 

MarineSgt

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2009
Messages
195
Location
Allendale, Michigan, USA
Thanks for the support! The "wash, rinse, repeat", "OC Experiences Thread", and people posting audio of their encounters were instrumental in giving me the confidence to OC. The biggest booster to me was the Muskegon County Gun Board meeting where they took his CPL.

Why is it that WE always are expected to bend our principles in order to conform to others principles? Who's principles are greater? We have Justice and Truth on our side!
 

lapeer20m

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
928
Location
Near Lapeer (Hadley), Michigan, USA
very nicely handled!

I like how you asked him about people being afraid of his gun. I always make it a point during an encounter to mention to the officers the irony/hypocrisy that they too are open carrying while hassling me for doing exactly the same thing.

Last time i refused to provide id while oc'ing i was disarmed and tossed into the back of a police car.
 

scot623

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2009
Messages
1,421
Location
Eastpointe, Michigan, USA
Nice! You asserted your rights without being rude. Once the officers realized you would not be intimidated, they left you alone. I like it. By they way, did you notice any of the supposed "scared people" running for help while you were there? I've heard this statement multiple times and I like to turn around and ask (as people are milling around not even noticing me) which of these people are scared? Keep up the good work.
 

MarineSgt

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2009
Messages
195
Location
Allendale, Michigan, USA
Nice! You asserted your rights without being rude. Once the officers realized you would not be intimidated, they left you alone. I like it. By they way, did you notice any of the supposed "scared people" running for help while you were there? I've heard this statement multiple times and I like to turn around and ask (as people are milling around not even noticing me) which of these people are scared? Keep up the good work.

Even doing my best to be situationally aware, I did not notice anyone react to my firearm. We were there from 3:00 pm to 7:00 pm. That was the only issue I had. I counted at least 8 different Police Officers working the event.
 

kryptonian

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2010
Messages
245
Location
, ,
handled well

good job. liked the "are people scared of your gun?". you know once you goaleed a couple of lieutenants that they told the others to not bother you. would be interested to know how many people were concerned. police tend to be vague or exaggerate the alarm your weapon caused. in my bad LEO encounter the officer said calls were flooding in and 20 of my neighbors wanted something done to stop me. they are dispatched thru oakland county so i called them and found out there was one call and i don't have 20 neighbors. that officer was supposed to be off duty at a 4th of july party i was at last night but didn't show. damn!!!!
i take something from every posted and recorded encounters and store it in my 'just in case' mental folder. hopefully won't need them and that the encounters are less and less necessary as LEOs give up on trying to intimidate the educated.
once again - good job and tell the mrs. to get on board and show a unified front so the officers and your kids don't see a conflicted family.
 

kryptonian

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2010
Messages
245
Location
, ,
ren fest

oh yeah. isn't ren fest in holly? what's the policy there? i've CC there but if i remember right there's a no weapon rule there that i ignored. have to pay to get in which probably means no OC. probably answered my own question.
 

malignity

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2008
Messages
1,101
Location
Warren, Michigan, USA
All open weapons (ie, swords, daggers, flintlock pistols) have to be peacebound at the renn fest. As for a real functioning weapon, I'm thinking they won't like that much.

The policy changed last year, allowing swords, etc. in.
 

ScottNH

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2006
Messages
140
Location
Live Free or Die, ,
Me: Am I doing anything illegal?
*Pause*
Me: *shaking head* No. <with emphasis>
Cop 1: No... not right now.
Me: Ok, thanks.

"These aren't the 'droids you're looking for."

these_are_not_the_droids.jpg
 

DanM

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Messages
1,928
Location
West Bloomfield, Michigan, USA
This is the first time I OC’d with my wife along and she was really embarrassed; almost to the point of crying and wanting to leave.

I hope your wife feels better, in retrospect, about this encounter. Being at the forefront of exercising and protecting our liberties brings with it the risk of being confronted by those who detest liberty. That is among the most important reasons we do it, to remind those who dislike liberty that their intimidation will not succeed.

It's not all a walk among the roses. Your wife got a taste of that. I hope she understands the big picture and continues to support you.
 
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