Holland PD Encounter:July 3, 2010 at Kollen Park, Celebration Freedom Festival

DanM said:

I hope your wife feels better, in retrospect, about this encounter. Being at the forefront of exercising and protecting our liberties brings with it the risk of being confronted by those who detest liberty. That is among the most important reasons we do it, to remind those who dislike liberty that their intimidation will not succeed.

It's not all a walk among the roses. Your wife got a taste of that. I hope she understands the big picture and continues to support you.

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MarineSgt said:

My wife and I decide to go to Kollen Park in Holland for the “Celebration Freedom Festival” they are having. My wife is pregnant and we take our two girls, which are 1.5 and 2.5 years along with us. I’m open carrying a HK USP .40 in a Blackhawk Serpa CQC holster. After walking around for about a half an hour and letting the kids do some activities we sit down to listen to a band play on the steel drums. We pull the wagon with our girls in it off of the path and sit down in the grass. Once I get settled I notice two Holland PD lieutenants walking down the path. I notice they are walking towards me while pretending to be walking past me. That is when I greet them. They take a step past me in order to see my side and then start talking to me.
This is the first time I OC’d with my wife along and she was really embarrassed; almost to the point of crying and wanting to leave. Some “Celebration Freedom Festival”!

Me: How ya’ doin?
Cop 1: Do you have an ID for carrying.
Me: I do. I have an ID.
Cop 1: Ok, may I see it?
Me: No.
Cop 1: Why not?
Me: What do you need to see my ID for?
Cop 1: Because we have a lot of people around here, you’re carrying a gun and they’re worried about it.
Me: That’s fine.
Me: It’s not illegal.
Cop 1: Well I need to see a permit.
Me: Permit for what?
Cop 1: Carry.
Me: For open carrying?
Cop 1: Yeah.
Me: There is no permits for open carrying.
*Cops pause*
Me: There is no permits for open carrying.
Cop 1: Do you think it’s cool scaring people or, what?
Me: It’s not cool.
Cop 1: Ok well.
Me: It’s my right. (Not sure if I actually got *right* out of my mouth)
Cop 2: We just wanna see a CCW permit. (I think this is what he said, he said something about CCW but I didn't catch it so I ignored him and continued talking to Cop 1)
Me: You have, you have a firearm.
Cop 1: Ya.
Me: Are people scared of your firearm?
*Pause*
Cop 1: Ok.
Me: Am I doing anything illegal?
*Pause*
Me: *shaking head* No. <with emphasis>
Cop 1: No... not right now.
Me: Ok, thanks. *I turn my head away from him to signify that we're done talking*
*Cops stand there for a moment and then turn and leave*
Me-> to my daughter: Want to blow some bubbles?



This transcript is pretty accurate. I listened to the recording but the steel drums were playing in the background and made it difficult in a few spots.

I'm loading the audio into YouTube right now...
[video=youtube;dvhT7tW-NW0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvhT7tW-NW0&feature=youtube_gdata[/video]

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MarineSgt said:

Thanks! If I sounded cool and collected in the audio I sure didn't feel that way! Let me know if you find any discrepancies between the audio and the transcript I posted.

ETA: My wife still isn't on board the OC train yet. She seems to think that I want the attention of the LEOs and that I'm baiting them when I wear my "Don't tread on me" shirt. I figured the 4th was a good day to wear that shirt!

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DrTodd said:

Did you buy the shirt locally, out of the area, or on-line? I've been looking for just such an accessory...

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MarineSgt said:

I bought it at the Tea Party of West Michigan Rally. I just checked their website store here: http://www.teapartyofwmi.org/page/store-2 and they don't have clothing available yet.

Although http://www.hudsonvilleteaparty.com/store.html has a neat shirt for sale that I plan on picking up soon.

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MarineSgt said:

ETA: My wife still isn't on board the OC train yet. She seems to think that I want the attention of the LEOs and that I'm baiting them when I wear my "Don't tread on me" shirt.

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DanM said:

Please ask your wife to read my following questions, and I would like to know her response:

So, are black people also wanting the attention of the LEOs and baiting them when they appear in areas a guy with a badge thinks isn't "their" area and he stops them for no real reason? Or, do we PROPERLY characterize this as a guy with a badge taking it upon himself to initiate an unnecessary citizen contact, as is the case also with your incident?

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DanM said:

Please ask your wife to read my following questions, and I would like to know her response:

So, are black people also wanting the attention of the LEOs and baiting them when they appear in areas a guy with a badge thinks isn't "their" area and he stops them for no real reason? Or, do we PROPERLY characterize this as a guy with a badge taking it upon himself to initiate an unnecessary citizen contact, as is the case also with your incident?

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MarineSgt said:

Ok, I asked her and this is the jist of what she said. She said that she knows OC is legal and right but doesn't think it should be practiced in social situations where it is not considered acceptable. For instance, a woman breastfeeding in a restaurant. Some people want the woman to breastfeed in the bathroom and not in the dining room. Some people want the woman to be able to breastfeed in the dining room but keep it covered, and some people (few) don't mind if they hang their boobs out in the open.

She said that since we were at a "family" event that it was not a socially acceptable place to OC. I told that there is only one way to change that.

The big issue with her seems to be the possible negative attention by others and the police that embarrasses her and prevents her from enjoying herself. She has no problem with me CCing anywhere. Only OC.

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MarineSgt said:

Ok, I asked her and this is the jist of what she said. She said that she knows OC is legal and right but doesn't think it should be practiced in social situations where it is not considered acceptable.

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MarineSgt said:

She said that since we were at a "family" event that it was not a socially acceptable place to OC. I told that there is only one way to change that.

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DanM said:

Thank her for me for responding, and ask her to respond to this followup on the above:

Not too long ago, in historical terms, women weren't permitted in many social situations where they were not considered acceptable, and their presence made many at the time uncomfortable. Did our society advance by women following along with this so as not to discomfort some people? NO . . .



EXACTLY! Women broke the barriers of the above social situations by asserting and exercising their right, despite the discomfort of many, to be there. Was that not eventually successful, and society made the necessary advances rather than women allowing the status quo to perpetuate?

Same with gun owners and gun carriers, both concealed and open carry. You peacefully prod society to make the necessary advances by exercising the rights at all places legally and ethically correct, or you go nowhere--or even see your rights diminish--by acquiescing to the status quo and those who are "uncomfortable".

In fact, accomodating people who are "uncomfortable" with WHATEVER rights you exercise in a peaceful manner only leads in one direction: encroachment upon and loss of those rights.

Please ask your wife to read this and I would like to see her response.

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