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Thread: UOC 4th of July. Police contact. Me in cuffs.

  1. #1
    Regular Member ryanburbridge's Avatar
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    UOC 4th of July. Police contact. Me in cuffs.

    Wow. I will be adding audio and pics. My family and I were at a park in Long Beach all day. I was UOCing my 1911 and full mag. Park Ranger makes contact draws his own gun on me puts me to the ground cuffs me and off to the car we go. Long story short I'll add more later. Long Beach Pd shows up and bails me out of trouble gets me out of ranger car gives back full mag and gun for me to holster and let's me go infront of a large cunfused crowd of sheeple. Sorry I'm on my phone I'll add more details later.

    OK. I was at Heartwell park off of clark and carson in Long beach. I had been playing ball with the kids all day. There is a great fire works show across the street at Veterans stadium. lots of people hang out and barbecue during the day. Around 20:30 I see what looks like a cop approaching he tells me to come over to him. He grabs my arm and struggles to unholster his gun. At this point I say nothing and try to comply to every command. Hands down hands up get on your knees lay down it was very confusing. It turns out the park rangers and long beach police both responded to a man with gun call. First contact was with the park ranger who were clueless of my rights. Cuffed and taken to the street where i invoked my right to remain silent and i did. I told the rangers i did not consent to a search of my person or belongings. They took my wallet and got out my ID ran my ID and found out I am not a bad guy. even after that they re-cuffed me and put me in the ranger car while they tried to find a charge to take me in. A long beach pd came to the car and asked my name so he could run the serial number on my gun. He said the rangers were " idiots" ha classic. After an hour the rangers were told they could not charge me under penal code 12031. the LBPD got me out of the car and gave me my gun and ammo back for me to go about my business. This was not a good encounter but the rangers got schooled and I kept my gun on me in the end.
    How do i upload audio?
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    Last edited by ryanburbridge; 07-05-2010 at 03:51 AM.

  2. #2
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    Sounds exciting. Can't wait for the rest of the story.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
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    Was the Rangers name Dudley Doright? Wait! He was a Mountie.
    A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The right‘s existence is all the reason he needs.

  4. #4
    Regular Member PincheOgro1's Avatar
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    Yeah this park thing has got me confused. Where I live, schools everywhere, park at the end of the street. I'm afraid to UOC anywhere except in my yard (gated) and in the house. LOL. . I'll be glad when there is a chapter in my area with experienced UOCers for a meet and greet.
    Last edited by PincheOgro1; 07-05-2010 at 04:19 AM.

  5. #5
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    you done right!

    i invoked my right to remain silent and i did. I told the rangers i did not consent to a search of my person or belongings.


    cant wait to hear more,, you did good ,,stand up for your rights
    this will be good reading for many days,,
    dont file charges, until you get your foia, then get your lawyer on it,,
    are there witnessess? can you get statements?
    Hang em high!!
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  6. #6
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    Rangers owe you $21,000!

    Quote Originally Posted by ryanburbridge View Post
    Wow. I will be adding audio and pics. My family and I were at a park in Long Beach all day. I was UOCing my 1911 and full mag. Park Ranger makes contact draws his own gun on me puts me to the ground cuffs me and off to the car we go. Long story short I'll add more later. Long Beach Pd shows up and bails me out of trouble gets me out of ranger car gives back full mag and gun for me to holster and let's me go infront of a large cunfused crowd of sheeple. Sorry I'm on my phone I'll add more details later.

    OK. I was at Heartwell park off of clark and carson in Long beach. I had been playing ball with the kids all day. There is a great fire works show across the street at Veterans stadium. lots of people hang out and barbecue during the day. Around 20:30 I see what looks like a cop approaching he tells me to come over to him. He grabs my arm and struggles to unholster his gun. At this point I say nothing and try to comply to every command. Hands down hands up get on your knees lay down it was very confusing. It turns out the park rangers and long beach police both responded to a man with gun call. First contact was with the park ranger who were clueless of my rights. Cuffed and taken to the street where i invoked my right to remain silent and i did. I told the rangers i did not consent to a search of my person or belongings. They took my wallet and got out my ID ran my ID and found out I am not a bad guy. even after that they re-cuffed me and put me in the ranger car while they tried to find a charge to take me in. A long beach pd came to the car and asked my name so he could run the serial number on my gun. He said the rangers were " idiots" ha classic. After an hour the rangers were told they could not charge me under penal code 12031. the LBPD got me out of the car and gave me my gun and ammo back for me to go about my business. This was not a good encounter but the rangers got schooled and I kept my gun on me in the end.
    How do i upload audio?
    Hello Ryanburbridge,

    Unbelievable!

    Have you read St. John v. Alamagordo?

    Your 4 A rights were violoated! The Supremes have ruled over and over that the presence of a legally carried gun does not negate your 4 A protections. You may be the test case in the ninth circuit for a suit that removes qualified immunity from the rangers who committed crimes against you.

    In the St. John case, the police officers involved collectively coughed-up $21,000 from their personal funds and paid St. John. Worse for the officers, Judge Black did not allow a trial--he ruled on summary that the coppers violated many laws that are very clear, and have been in case law for decades, and that a trial wasn't needed (paraphrased by me).

    CALL A LAWYER! DON'T POST ANYTHING MORE!

    Here is the ruling: http://www.nmcourt.fed.us/Drs-Web/vi...-08cv00994.pdf

    markm

  7. #7
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Sorry to hear that you had such a negative encounter with law enforcement. It sounds like you handled it pretty well and followed some of the advice you have read here.

    The park ranger used excessive force when he drew his weapon.

    In spite of the comment from LBPD, they still demanded ID to run the serial number of your firearm without having probable cause that a crime had been commited. While it appears that LBPD was responsible for releasing you, they conducted a search of your property without an articulable crime.

    You were detained for for considerably longer than it was necessary to inspect the firearm under 12031 (e).

    All of these elements should be the subject of a complaint- but before you decide to file such complaint, I would recommend that you PRAR all the records of the incident so that you know all the actors involved.

    While I realize we all like to read about and share our experiences, it would be better to not disclose too muich particularly if you plan on taking legal action against the authorities. (See Noobie Thread)

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    Quote Originally Posted by ConditionThree View Post
    Sorry to hear that you had such a negative encounter with law enforcement. It sounds like you handled it pretty well and followed some of the advice you have read here.

    The park ranger used excessive force when he drew his weapon.

    In spite of the comment from LBPD, they still demanded ID to run the serial number of your firearm without having probable cause that a crime had been commited. While it appears that LBPD was responsible for releasing you, they conducted a search of your property without an articulable crime.

    You were detained for for considerably longer than it was necessary to inspect the firearm under 12031 (e).

    All of these elements should be the subject of a complaint- but before you decide to file such complaint, I would recommend that you PRAR all the records of the incident so that you know all the actors involved.

    While I realize we all like to read about and share our experiences, it would be better to not disclose too muich particularly if you plan on taking legal action against the authorities. (See Noobie Thread)
    Looks like "Law Suit" time to me ! Robin47

  9. #9
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    You may have a federal case, if you want to spend some money...

    QI doesn't apply when the officer acts contrary to "settled law" - that is, law where the courts have clearly defined that the officer's actions violated a constitutionally protected right. (In this case 2A and 4A violations occurred.) Since we have solid case law at both the state and federal level, this park ranger is not covered by QI.

    That's the good news. Now for the bad news.

    Ask yourself: What are your damages? Were you physically injured during this arrest? Did they cause any damage to your property? Will your case be one of "punitive damages" only? (I'm guessing the latter would be answered in the affirmative.)

    When I was "detained" by Turlock PD (almost 2 years ago now), I received minor injuries and my firearm was cosmetically damaged. When all was said and done I could claim about $200 in damages. No attorney would touch my case without cash up front. I was told that it's a crap shoot. Might walk out of court a millionaire, or might walk out owing the other side attorney fees to the tune of $100,000s.

    Things have changed since McDonald, but I'm still gonna guess that you will need substantial damages (e.g. time spent in jail, big medical bills, etc) before an attorney will take your case on contingency.

    Sadly I think yours is another case of "justice is for those who can afford to buy it."
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    Your REALITY post is right-on!

    Quote Originally Posted by CA_Libertarian View Post
    You may have a federal case, if you want to spend some money...

    QI doesn't apply when the officer acts contrary to "settled law" - that is, law where the courts have clearly defined that the officer's actions violated a constitutionally protected right. (In this case 2A and 4A violations occurred.) Since we have solid case law at both the state and federal level, this park ranger is not covered by QI.

    That's the good news. Now for the bad news.

    Ask yourself: What are your damages? Were you physically injured during this arrest? Did they cause any damage to your property? Will your case be one of "punitive damages" only? (I'm guessing the latter would be answered in the affirmative.)

    When I was "detained" by Turlock PD (almost 2 years ago now), I received minor injuries and my firearm was cosmetically damaged. When all was said and done I could claim about $200 in damages. No attorney would touch my case without cash up front. I was told that it's a crap shoot. Might walk out of court a millionaire, or might walk out owing the other side attorney fees to the tune of $100,000s.

    Things have changed since McDonald, but I'm still gonna guess that you will need substantial damages (e.g. time spent in jail, big medical bills, etc) before an attorney will take your case on contingency.

    Sadly I think yours is another case of "justice is for those who can afford to buy it."
    Hey CA_Libertarian,

    ..."justice is for those who can afford to buy it."

    You are so correct. It is easy for me to hope "he can afford it" for the good of us all, but it is a big deal for ryanburbridge to spend the money, take the risk, and waste the time involved.

    Filing and completing a lawsuit is hard work, even if you have a great lawyer and donated funding.

    markm

  11. #11
    Regular Member ryanburbridge's Avatar
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    Well I do not have the money that it sounds like would be required. I do not plan on a lawsuit. Can I add more to the story? Would you like to hear some audio? It's about three hours of recording but if some one knows how I can upload parts I will. How about a meet up in a Long Beach Park to help the Park Rangers understand?

  12. #12
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
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    You can use http://filevo.com to upload your audio.

    But before you do, I would consider not uploading your audio, and instead filing a lawsuit as MarkBoRAdvocate suggested. The New Mexico case is similar to yours, the main differences are that he was pulled out of a movie theater and taken out to the parking lot. It sounds like you were detained a lot longer than he was, you had a gun pulled on you, you had your wallet illegally searched, you had your gun illegally searched (serial number), and you were publicly humiliated.

    The NM case court documents can be found here: http://filevo.com/9a9lgjyfqr15.html (click on free download). It's nearly identical, and as Mark pointed out, resulted in a $20k settlement. The 2nd is incorporated, we have case law to support us, I'd consider it.

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    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanburbridge View Post
    Well I do not have the money that it sounds like would be required. I do not plan on a lawsuit. Can I add more to the story? Would you like to hear some audio? It's about three hours of recording but if some one knows how I can upload parts I will. How about a meet up in a Long Beach Park to help the Park Rangers understand?
    If you have no plans for a lawsuit, I would suggest filing a complaint against the Rangers so they can be retrained and this won't happen to another OC'er.
    A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The right‘s existence is all the reason he needs.

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    Regular Member demnogis's Avatar
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    Talk to a Civil Rights attorney. Ask for a free consult. Ask what the price to get started would be and get back to us.
    Gun control isn't about guns -- it is about control.

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    Did you research Muni codes that may apply in those parks? It's the difference between having a 'clean' case or one that has 'color'. As much as we may not like it, gov. property may be restricted for carry (its not clear yet). However local carry restrictions in CA are likely pre-empted by state law in this case but it could cost 1 million to prove it in state court (which is not where we want to be fighting 2A).

  16. #16
    Regular Member demnogis's Avatar
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    Another point... Was it a State Park? City Park? County Park?

    State parks firearms possession is illegal by law.
    Gun control isn't about guns -- it is about control.

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    If illegal, it is probably an infraction.

    These cops need to get a friggin clue.

  18. #18
    Newbie cato's Avatar
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    I'd hold off on posting audio at this time and put it in a safe place after having made a copy.

  19. #19
    Newbie cato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pullnshoot25 View Post
    If illegal, it is probably an infraction.

    These cops need to get a friggin clue.
    Yes, but the punishment doesn't matter as to his being seized for any public offense. The search issues go out the window if he was 'arrested' as a matter of law even if they didn't cite or book.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Curmudgeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by demnogis View Post
    Another point... Was it a State Park? City Park? County Park?

    State parks firearms possession is illegal by law.


    After a grueling 1/2 second Google search :-p it appears to be a city park...

    http://www.longbeach.gov/park/parks_...twell_park.asp

    OP, I hope you are able to follow up on this, to whatever extent you are able. Being grabbed, grounded, cuffed, disarmed, and dragged off by "the authorities" ... for the sheer audacity of doing nothing wrong... in front of hundreds of your neighbors and fellow townsfolk is probably one of the most humiliating and degrading things I can imagine.

    Do you really know for sure that this will not come back to bite you in the future? Say, at a job interview?

    Just because you were not shot and killed by ranger retard does not mean it all ended well.

    Does it really cost anything to file a complaint with the ranger's superiors? What, if anything does it cost to initiate a private criminal complaint?

    Last, you may wish to consult more than one attorney. They are NOT all the same, they do not all do the same type of work. One may want $10,000 up front, the next one may be willing to work with you on a contingent-fee basis. It's going to be up to you. Admit it or not, they were out to really "teach you a thing or 2" about OC, and they succeeded. The rangers need to be "corrected" in a way they will never forget.

  21. #21
    Regular Member demnogis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
    [...] Do you really know for sure that this will not come back to bite you in the future? Say, at a job interview?

    Just because you were not shot and killed by ranger retard does not mean it all ended well.

    Does it really cost anything to file a complaint with the ranger's superiors? What, if anything does it cost to initiate a private criminal complaint?

    Last, you may wish to consult more than one attorney. They are NOT all the same, they do not all do the same type of work. One may want $10,000 up front, the next one may be willing to work with you on a contingent-fee basis. It's going to be up to you. Admit it or not, they were out to really "teach you a thing or 2" about OC, and they succeeded. The rangers need to be "corrected" in a way they will never forget.
    Since no real "arrest" was made there wouldn't be anything that a potential employer can find with a generic criminal/credit background check. An in-depth background investigation that requires security clearance however... Is an unknown factor.

    Before filing a complaint file a PRAR / CRAR with the appropriate LEA to get copies of the call (audio), report filed, radio dialogue (as he was calling in your info) etc. THEN file the complaint. After you have said materials you can pursue with a lawsuit, should you have the $$$.
    Gun control isn't about guns -- it is about control.

  22. #22
    Regular Member Curmudgeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by demnogis View Post
    Since no real "arrest" was made there wouldn't be anything that a potential employer can find with a generic criminal/credit background check. An in-depth background investigation that requires security clearance however... Is an unknown factor.

    Before filing a complaint file a PRAR / CRAR with the appropriate LEA to get copies of the call (audio), report filed, radio dialogue (as he was calling in your info) etc. THEN file the complaint. After you have said materials you can pursue with a lawsuit, should you have the $$$.

    To be clear (and I should have been more specific) I was referring to the possibility that a potential employer might be an actual observer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanburbridge View Post
    Wow.
    Ryan, I'd suggest taking a look over at Calguns http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...=318657&page=2 and posting to see if Calguns Foundation might be interested in either taking up the case (and funding it, if it would be something to further their cause), or pointing you towards a lawyer for a consult to determine what your legal options are. You're not going to get solid legal advice posted in a forum, since most of the details, audio, etc isn't here for a lawyer to review.

    It seems clear that your rights were violated, and appears that you have a case. Seriously, at least talk to an attorney or someone from the CGF board (not to be confused with the forum posters, though some board members post on the forum). Make sure it's an attorney knowledgeable about gun laws, it does make a difference. Also, there are some very top notch lawyers that CGF is affiliated with, look into speaking with one of them (or a lawyer they recommend).

    It's hard to go wrong with a legal consult, especially when you have pictures, audio, and witnesses.

  24. #24
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    reply

    To the OP:

    I joined specifically to reply to your post.


    I do not Open Carry. Many reasons why I don't - wish I could, so I live vicariously through you, but I don't.

    You open carried, as is your right.

    It's clear from your postings so far that you had no intent to create a legally tenuous situation for the cops.

    Legally, from the sounds of it, it sounds as though unless there are extenuating circumstances none of us know about, you have a bit of a legal bonanza lottery jackpot in your hands.

    I wouldn't hesitate to ask those around you who are much more knowledgeable than you to get attorneys involved. Your case may be exactly the kind of material that the rest of us would jump at the opportunity to support, financially or otherwise.

    Contact the people at Calguns. Contact Chuck Michel in Long Beach.

    Both the idiot park ranger and the Long Beach City Cop, with all good intentions, completely screwed you over. It's not about damages, financial remuneration, etc...it's about ensuring that cops stop abusing your constitutionally protected rights, and clarifying that for idiots like Lori Sadana in San Diego who are precisely trying to pass state law to keep you from exactly what you're doing.

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    Gene Hoffman at Calguns...

    do not let this one go, brother...

  25. #25
    Regular Member wewd's Avatar
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    Definitely call Jason Davis as mentioned above. He can at the very least PRI your encounter with both departments and give advice on how you can proceed from here.

    http://www.calgunlawyers.com/Davis_&...son_Davis.html

    Give him a call tomorrow.
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