UOC 4th of July. Police contact. Me in cuffs.

Curmudgeon · Jul 5, 2010

demnogis said:
Another point... Was it a State Park? City Park? County Park?

State parks firearms possession is illegal by law.

After a grueling 1/2 second Google search

it appears to be a city park...

http://www.longbeach.gov/park/parks_and_open_spaces/parks/heartwell_park.asp

OP, I hope you are able to follow up on this, to whatever extent you are able. Being grabbed, grounded, cuffed, disarmed, and dragged off by "the authorities" ... for the sheer audacity of doing nothing wrong... in front of hundreds of your neighbors and fellow townsfolk is probably one of the most humiliating and degrading things I can imagine.

Do you really know for sure that this will not come back to bite you in the future? Say, at a job interview?

Just because you were not shot and killed by ranger retard does not mean it all ended well.

Does it really cost anything to file a complaint with the ranger's superiors? What, if anything does it cost to initiate a private criminal complaint?

Last, you may wish to consult more than one attorney. They are NOT all the same, they do not all do the same type of work. One may want $10,000 up front, the next one may be willing to work with you on a contingent-fee basis. It's going to be up to you. Admit it or not, they were out to really "teach you a thing or 2" about OC, and they succeeded. The rangers need to be "corrected" in a way they will never forget.

demnogis · Jul 5, 2010

Curmudgeon said:
[...] Do you really know for sure that this will not come back to bite you in the future? Say, at a job interview?

Just because you were not shot and killed by ranger retard does not mean it all ended well.

Does it really cost anything to file a complaint with the ranger's superiors? What, if anything does it cost to initiate a private criminal complaint?

Last, you may wish to consult more than one attorney. They are NOT all the same, they do not all do the same type of work. One may want $10,000 up front, the next one may be willing to work with you on a contingent-fee basis. It's going to be up to you. Admit it or not, they were out to really "teach you a thing or 2" about OC, and they succeeded. The rangers need to be "corrected" in a way they will never forget.

Since no real "arrest" was made there wouldn't be anything that a potential employer can find with a generic criminal/credit background check. An in-depth background investigation that requires security clearance however... Is an unknown factor.

Before filing a complaint file a PRAR / CRAR with the appropriate LEA to get copies of the call (audio), report filed, radio dialogue (as he was calling in your info) etc. THEN file the complaint. After you have said materials you can pursue with a lawsuit, should you have the $$$.

Curmudgeon · Jul 5, 2010

demnogis said:
Since no real "arrest" was made there wouldn't be anything that a potential employer can find with a generic criminal/credit background check. An in-depth background investigation that requires security clearance however... Is an unknown factor.

Before filing a complaint file a PRAR / CRAR with the appropriate LEA to get copies of the call (audio), report filed, radio dialogue (as he was calling in your info) etc. THEN file the complaint. After you have said materials you can pursue with a lawsuit, should you have the $$$.

To be clear (and I should have been more specific) I was referring to the possibility that a potential employer might be an actual observer.

NightOwl · Jul 5, 2010

ryanburbridge said:
Wow.

Ryan, I'd suggest taking a look over at Calguns http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=318657&page=2 and posting to see if Calguns Foundation might be interested in either taking up the case (and funding it, if it would be something to further their cause), or pointing you towards a lawyer for a consult to determine what your legal options are. You're not going to get solid legal advice posted in a forum, since most of the details, audio, etc isn't here for a lawyer to review.

It seems clear that your rights were violated, and appears that you have a case. Seriously, at least talk to an attorney or someone from the CGF board (not to be confused with the forum posters, though some board members post on the forum). Make sure it's an attorney knowledgeable about gun laws, it does make a difference. Also, there are some very top notch lawyers that CGF is affiliated with, look into speaking with one of them (or a lawyer they recommend).

It's hard to go wrong with a legal consult, especially when you have pictures, audio, and witnesses.

glbtrottr · Jul 5, 2010

reply

To the OP:

I joined specifically to reply to your post.

I do not Open Carry. Many reasons why I don't - wish I could, so I live vicariously through you, but I don't.

You open carried, as is your right.

It's clear from your postings so far that you had no intent to create a legally tenuous situation for the cops.

Legally, from the sounds of it, it sounds as though unless there are extenuating circumstances none of us know about, you have a bit of a legal bonanza lottery jackpot in your hands.

I wouldn't hesitate to ask those around you who are much more knowledgeable than you to get attorneys involved. Your case may be exactly the kind of material that the rest of us would jump at the opportunity to support, financially or otherwise.

Contact the people at Calguns. Contact Chuck Michel in Long Beach.

Both the idiot park ranger and the Long Beach City Cop, with all good intentions, completely screwed you over. It's not about damages, financial remuneration, etc...it's about ensuring that cops stop abusing your constitutionally protected rights, and clarifying that for idiots like Lori Sadana in San Diego who are precisely trying to pass state law to keep you from exactly what you're doing.

C. D. Michel
TRUTANICH-MICHEL, LLP
Attorneys At Law
Port of Los Angeles Office
407 North Harbor Blvd.
San Pedro, California 90731

JASON DAVIS, Attorney
E-Mail: Jason@CalGunLawyers.com

Law Offices of Donald Kilmer, A Professional Corporation
1645 Willow Street, Suite 150
San Jose, CA 95125
Ph: (408) 264-8489
Fx: (408) 264-8487
info@dklawoffice.com

http://www.calgunlaws.com/

Gene Hoffman at Calguns...

do not let this one go, brother...

wewd · Jul 5, 2010

Definitely call Jason Davis as mentioned above. He can at the very least PRI your encounter with both departments and give advice on how you can proceed from here.

http://www.calgunlawyers.com/Davis_&_Associates/Jason_Davis.html

Give him a call tomorrow.

ryanburbridge · Jul 5, 2010

Thank all of you for your support and advice. I will start to gather any and all info I can to proceed in the right direction. This is a great forum and from what I have learned here I was able to conduct my self in a safe and smart manner. I would like to let you guys know more but at this time I will wait untill I have advice from a lawyer. I will keep in touch. Carry on my freinds don't let my experience scare you from exercising your rights.

heliopolissolutions · Jul 6, 2010

If you decide to go through with this, you have some stones.
Don't let yourself get bullied by the 'authority' of others.

coolusername2007 · Jul 7, 2010

Sorry to learn your rights were violated...twice. Since I'm coming in late to this thread, I don't have much to offer that hasn't already been stated. While I hope you sue the crap out of all of them, I realize its your choice and respect your decision.

Its been awhile since our last meet up, hope we can do it again in the near future. Carry On brother!

oc4ever · Jul 7, 2010

Welcome to Long Beach

Welcome to Long Beach........come for vacation-leave on probation.........

I have had several non enforcement contacts with Long Beach police officers. Each of them seemed well trained and level headed. However give a less well trained "park ranger" a gun, and the outcome can be less than professional and downright illegal as seen here. Incidents like this is why cities should not give guns smokey the bear park personnel. Some of the most abrasive, poorly trained badge heavy LEO's seem to work in various national,state and city park settings.

I am not one for suing cities, but unfortunately it seems the only way to get their attention. A couple of good lawsuits and some terminations by the city might save itself further cost and embarrassment. Too bad the real LB Police officer could not figure out the unlawful detention immediately and "break you out" of custody sooner. A short detention/talk has no financial cost to you or the city. Holding you against your will by handcuffing you for a hour, and moving you to another location borders on kidnapping. I am sure they know the crap is about to hit the fan if you told them it was all recorded. Too bad, because many LBPD guys are very pro gun for honest citizens.

Maybe Long Beach needs to change its policies and only send "real" policemen to MWAG calls and let the park rangers guard the parking meters, food stands and police cars. They all definitely look like they know where to find food by their size.

MKEgal · Jul 12, 2010

Curmudgeon said:
Being grabbed, grounded, cuffed, disarmed, and dragged off by "the authorities" ... for the sheer audacity of doing nothing wrong... in front of hundreds of your neighbors and fellow townsfolk is probably one of the most humiliating and degrading things I can imagine.
... Just because you were not shot and killed by ranger retard does not mean it all ended well.
...Admit it or not, they were out to really "teach you a thing or 2" about OC, and they succeeded.

Something similar happened to me in WI, also on 04JUL10.
Seems like many police still don't get the idea of legal v. illegal arrest, search, seizure, etc.
Good luck to you in your case.

demnogis · Jul 12, 2010

Qualified Immunity should be done away with.

MKEgal said:
Something similar happened to me in WI, also on 04JUL10.
Seems like many police still don't get the idea of legal v. illegal arrest, search, seizure, etc.
Good luck to you in your case.

cato · Jul 13, 2010

demnogis said:
Qualified Immunity should be done away with.

It is 'done away with' once the constitutional question at issue is settled law.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualified_immunity

As outlined by the Supreme Court in Harlow v. Fitzgerald, 457 U.S. 800 (1982),[1] qualified immunity is designed to shield government officials from actions "insofar as their conduct does not violate clearly established statutory or constitutional rights of which a reasonable person would have known."

justus4all · Jul 19, 2010

didnt this happen to you again in Long Beach at a book store ?

ryanburbridge said:
Wow. I will be adding audio and pics. My family and I were at a park in Long Beach all day. I was UOCing my 1911 and full mag.
]

justus4all · Jul 19, 2010

didnt this happen again to you at a book store in Long Beach ? Maybe its not the gun

:banghead:

ryanburbridge said:
Thank all of you for your support and advice. I will start to gather any and all info I can to proceed in the right direction. This is a great forum and from what I have learned here I was able to conduct my self in a safe and smart manner. I would like to let you guys know more but at this time I will wait untill I have advice from a lawyer. I will keep in touch. Carry on my freinds don't let my experience scare you from exercising your rights.

justus4all · Jul 19, 2010

book store

Didnt this happen again to you at a book store in Long Beach ? I didnt see any Park Rangers, Maybe its not the gun but the gun carrier that causes this

ryanburbridge said:
Wow. I will be adding audio and pics. My family and I were at a park in Long Beach all day. I was UOCing my 1911 and full mag. Park Ranger makes contact draws his own gun on me puts me to the ground cuffs me and off to the car we go. Long story short I'll add more later. Long Beach Pd shows up and bails me out of trouble gets me out of ranger car gives back full mag and gun for me to holster and let's me go infront of a large cunfused crowd of sheeple. Sorry I'm on my phone I'll add more details later.

OK. I was at Heartwell park off of clark and carson in Long beach. I had been playing ball with the kids all day. There is a great fire works show across the street at Veterans stadium. lots of people hang out and barbecue during the day. Around 20:30 I see what looks like a cop approaching he tells me to come over to him. He grabs my arm and struggles to unholster his gun. At this point I say nothing and try to comply to every command. Hands down hands up get on your knees lay down it was very confusing. It turns out the park rangers and long beach police both responded to a man with gun call. First contact was with the park ranger who were clueless of my rights. Cuffed and taken to the street where i invoked my right to remain silent and i did. I told the rangers i did not consent to a search of my person or belongings. They took my wallet and got out my ID ran my ID and found out I am not a bad guy. even after that they re-cuffed me and put me in the ranger car while they tried to find a charge to take me in. A long beach pd came to the car and asked my name so he could run the serial number on my gun. He said the rangers were " idiots" ha classic. After an hour the rangers were told they could not charge me under penal code 12031. the LBPD got me out of the car and gave me my gun and ammo back for me to go about my business. This was not a good encounter but the rangers got schooled and I kept my gun on me in the end.
How do i upload audio?

ConditionThree · Jul 19, 2010

justus4all said:
Didnt this happen again to you at a book store in Long Beach ? I didnt see any Park Rangers, Maybe its not the gun but the gun carrier that causes this

Nice triple tap there. You might want to alert the moderator of you enthusiastic overposting.

Back to the topic- there are several open carriers who have had multiple encounters with police on OCDO. This does not indicate that the open carrier is doing anything provacative besides carrying their holstered sidearm. This might indicate a problem with a single officer, a commanding officer, or an entire department of officers who are attempting to use this interferance as a disincentive to this lawful behavior. This deliberate attempt to deter lawful behavior is something that can and will be dealt with by complaints or litigation if necessary.

justus4all · Jul 19, 2010

Lbpd

If I'm correct it was a LBPD officer that assisted in the cuffing and when they walked you to the vehicle the patrons started clapping. If you say a recording is made I think you will hear it....

ConditionThree said:
Sorry to hear that you had such a negative encounter with law enforcement. It sounds like you handled it pretty well and followed some of the advice you have read here.

The park ranger used excessive force when he drew his weapon.

In spite of the comment from LBPD, they still demanded ID to run the serial number of your firearm without having probable cause that a crime had been commited. While it appears that LBPD was responsible for releasing you, they conducted a search of your property without an articulable crime.

You were detained for for considerably longer than it was necessary to inspect the firearm under 12031 (e).

All of these elements should be the subject of a complaint- but before you decide to file such complaint, I would recommend that you PRAR all the records of the incident so that you know all the actors involved.

While I realize we all like to read about and share our experiences, it would be better to not disclose too muich particularly if you plan on taking legal action against the authorities. (See Noobie Thread)

justus4all · Jul 19, 2010

book store

[Ask him how many park rangers detained him at the book store. Look at the person not the gun lolQUOTE=oc4ever;1301651]Welcome to Long Beach........come for vacation-leave on probation.........

I have had several non enforcement contacts with Long Beach police officers. Each of them seemed well trained and level headed. However give a less well trained "park ranger" a gun, and the outcome can be less than professional and downright illegal as seen here. Incidents like this is why cities should not give guns smokey the bear park personnel. Some of the most abrasive, poorly trained badge heavy LEO's seem to work in various national,state and city park settings.

I am not one for suing cities, but unfortunately it seems the only way to get their attention. A couple of good lawsuits and some terminations by the city might save itself further cost and embarrassment. Too bad the real LB Police officer could not figure out the unlawful detention immediately and "break you out" of custody sooner. A short detention/talk has no financial cost to you or the city. Holding you against your will by handcuffing you for a hour, and moving you to another location borders on kidnapping. I am sure they know the crap is about to hit the fan if you told them it was all recorded. Too bad, because many LBPD guys are very pro gun for honest citizens.

Maybe Long Beach needs to change its policies and only send "real" policemen to MWAG calls and let the park rangers guard the parking meters, food stands and police cars. They all definitely look like they know where to find food by their size.[/QUOTE]

justus4all · Jul 23, 2010

True to a point

But if an officer ask you whats your name, I just dont see whats wrong of saying your name..I dont know about LE but in the military we have our name on a shirt. Its nothing to be shy about. I guess its just as easy to say nothing as it is your name. I guess I will never get it when the goal is to challenge LE tape them record them call in OC calls and just spend your own time, officers time, radio operators time. It appears that alot is done for attention or money but I guess thats my right to think that. But what is really odd. I have posted three or four responses (lol) and tired of this alrerady. Since its a nice Friday I'm going to take my privlage to ride but ride my Hrdley that is my right to own. (lol)

ConditionThree said:
Nice triple tap there. You might want to alert the moderator of you enthusiastic overposting.

Back to the topic- there are several open carriers who have had multiple encounters with police on OCDO. This does not indicate that the open carrier is doing anything provacative besides carrying their holstered sidearm. This might indicate a problem with a single officer, a commanding officer, or an entire department of officers who are attempting to use this interferance as a disincentive to this lawful behavior. This deliberate attempt to deter lawful behavior is something that can and will be dealt with by complaints or litigation if necessary.

UOC 4th of July. Police contact. Me in cuffs.

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