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Thread: The America we need to return to..a little off topic

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    Regular Member DEROS72's Avatar
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    The America we need to return to..a little off topic

    Elisa sent me this video from the 4th of July parade in Bozeman Montana.....She is on the tea party float toward the end in a red dress....Look at the folks here ...the America the way it should be and what we need to fight to get back!!!
    I don't see any of the crap I see around this neighborhood....She also said she looks around her block and sees mostly trucks with rifle racks. She said she is coming back for our Willow Lake BB-Q carrying her glock 36 and we are welcome to come out to her place in Montana....Might be refreshing. The Bozeman Tea Party took first place in the parade.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhyzm-Q4RXE
    Last edited by DEROS72; 07-06-2010 at 12:45 AM.

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    Thumbs up

    This is the America I remember from my childhood. Everybody went to the parades, fish frys, etc. Everybody in the neighborhood knew everybody else, we helped each other out, etc. I could go on and on. I loved seeing all the little kids waving the flag. There is no doubt in my mind that they will grow up knowing what their rights and responsibilities are!

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    Return from where to where and what time? Perhaps my neighborhood is awesome, but what about this modern day needs to be reverted to *day you mean to return to*?

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Firearms related, we are living in a great time in America. America has become more and more firearm friendly with each passing year. And aside from the nay-sayer/fearmongers that hate this current administration, there has been no real movement from the current administration or congress to act on restricting firearms. It has been decades since we have had such significant court ruling such as Mcdonald, and D.C.

    I think that there is a lot of misinformation, and there are many groups of people who are capitalizing on the instability and flaming fear.

    I have always felt that if someone needs to use fear to convince me of something or persuade me to do something, they do not have my best interests in mind. General fear is healthy, and a normal part of the rational human experience. But the level of fear being regurgitated day in and day out on some of these "news" programs is downright disgusting.

    I am sure there were many things that were very good "back then." Just as there are many things good at this time.

    There was a lot of social turmoil "back then." Brown v. Board Of Education--bad time for black Americans who had to go through the court system to go to, and receive a "white" education. WWII was a very bad time--Pearl Harbor--Hitler, etc. Prior, was that a better time, the Great Depression, WWI? Segregation, women not having a right to vote, slavery. Just when was there a "better time in America?"

    Don't get me wrong, I am not saying there were not good things in the past, there are many good things. Baby boomers seem to thing that their era was the ideal era and it is not.

    I am getting to the age where I look back when I was younger and think about "better days." I am only thirty-two, but remember a day when kids would go out and play. The neighborhood that we live in is full of kids who never go outside and play, even during the summer time. Sad.

    I have really struggled with this nostalgia that has seem to swept up individuals who make up The Tea Party. The Tea Party is a right wing organization who has taken on this idea of going back to a better time.

    The Tea Party argument, aside from their degrading what was an actual taxation without representation revolt, act as if we are being taxed more than ever, which is a bold-faced lie:
    http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/...10-taxes_N.htm

    "Amid complaints about high taxes and calls for a smaller government, Americans paid their lowest level of taxes last year since Harry Truman's presidency, a USA TODAY analysis of federal data found.

    Some conservative political movements such as the "Tea Party" have criticized federal spending as being out of control. While spending is up, taxes have fallen to exceptionally low levels.

    Federal, state and local income taxes consumed 9.2% of all personal income in 2009, the lowest rate since 1950, the Bureau of Economic Analysis reports. That rate is far below the historic average of 12% for the last half-century. The overall tax burden hit bottom in December at 8.8.% of income before rising slightly in the first three months of 2010."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia Plath View Post
    Federal, state and local income taxes consumed 9.2% of all personal income in 2009, the lowest rate since 1950, the Bureau of Economic Analysis reports. That rate is far below the historic average of 12% for the last half-century. The overall tax burden hit bottom in December at 8.8.% of income before rising slightly in the first three months of 2010."
    Not exactly a good metric when 1/2 the population isn't paying an income tax http://money.cnn.com/2009/09/30/pf/t...axes/index.htm

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    Regular Member John Hardin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia Plath View Post
    Some conservative political movements such as the "Tea Party" have criticized federal spending as being out of control. While spending is up, taxes have fallen to exceptionally low levels."
    I point out the disconnect in your statement. Low taxes do not excuse excessive spending. How can they?

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    Regular Member Bob Warden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia Plath View Post
    Firearms related, we are living in a great time in America. America has become more and more firearm friendly with each passing year. And aside from the nay-sayer/fearmongers that hate this current administration, there has been no real movement from the current administration or congress to act on restricting firearms. It has been decades since we have had such significant court ruling such as Mcdonald, and D.C.

    I think that there is a lot of misinformation, and there are many groups of people who are capitalizing on the instability and flaming fear.

    I have always felt that if someone needs to use fear to convince me of something or persuade me to do something, they do not have my best interests in mind. General fear is healthy, and a normal part of the rational human experience. But the level of fear being regurgitated day in and day out on some of these "news" programs is downright disgusting.

    I am sure there were many things that were very good "back then." Just as there are many things good at this time.

    There was a lot of social turmoil "back then." Brown v. Board Of Education--bad time for black Americans who had to go through the court system to go to, and receive a "white" education. WWII was a very bad time--Pearl Harbor--Hitler, etc. Prior, was that a better time, the Great Depression, WWI? Segregation, women not having a right to vote, slavery. Just when was there a "better time in America?"

    Don't get me wrong, I am not saying there were not good things in the past, there are many good things. Baby boomers seem to thing that their era was the ideal era and it is not.

    I am getting to the age where I look back when I was younger and think about "better days." I am only thirty-two, but remember a day when kids would go out and play. The neighborhood that we live in is full of kids who never go outside and play, even during the summer time. Sad.

    I have really struggled with this nostalgia that has seem to swept up individuals who make up The Tea Party. The Tea Party is a right wing organization who has taken on this idea of going back to a better time.

    The Tea Party argument, aside from their degrading what was an actual taxation without representation revolt, act as if we are being taxed more than ever, which is a bold-faced lie:
    http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/...10-taxes_N.htm

    "Amid complaints about high taxes and calls for a smaller government, Americans paid their lowest level of taxes last year since Harry Truman's presidency, a USA TODAY analysis of federal data found.

    Some conservative political movements such as the "Tea Party" have criticized federal spending as being out of control. While spending is up, taxes have fallen to exceptionally low levels.

    Federal, state and local income taxes consumed 9.2% of all personal income in 2009, the lowest rate since 1950, the Bureau of Economic Analysis reports. That rate is far below the historic average of 12% for the last half-century. The overall tax burden hit bottom in December at 8.8.% of income before rising slightly in the first three months of 2010."
    Very well said, top to bottom!
    Meet the new boss; same as the old boss. -The Who

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia Plath View Post
    Firearms related, we are living in a great time in America. America has become more and more firearm friendly with each passing year. And aside from the nay-sayer/fearmongers that hate this current administration, there has been no real movement from the current administration or congress to act on restricting firearms. It has been decades since we have had such significant court ruling such as Mcdonald, and D.C.

    I think that there is a lot of misinformation, and there are many groups of people who are capitalizing on the instability and flaming fear.

    I have always felt that if someone needs to use fear to convince me of something or persuade me to do something, they do not have my best interests in mind. General fear is healthy, and a normal part of the rational human experience. But the level of fear being regurgitated day in and day out on some of these "news" programs is downright disgusting.

    I am sure there were many things that were very good "back then." Just as there are many things good at this time.

    There was a lot of social turmoil "back then." Brown v. Board Of Education--bad time for black Americans who had to go through the court system to go to, and receive a "white" education. WWII was a very bad time--Pearl Harbor--Hitler, etc. Prior, was that a better time, the Great Depression, WWI? Segregation, women not having a right to vote, slavery. Just when was there a "better time in America?"

    Don't get me wrong, I am not saying there were not good things in the past, there are many good things. Baby boomers seem to thing that their era was the ideal era and it is not.

    I am getting to the age where I look back when I was younger and think about "better days." I am only thirty-two, but remember a day when kids would go out and play. The neighborhood that we live in is full of kids who never go outside and play, even during the summer time. Sad.

    I have really struggled with this nostalgia that has seem to swept up individuals who make up The Tea Party. The Tea Party is a right wing organization who has taken on this idea of going back to a better time.

    The Tea Party argument, aside from their degrading what was an actual taxation without representation revolt, act as if we are being taxed more than ever, which is a bold-faced lie:
    http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/...10-taxes_N.htm

    "Amid complaints about high taxes and calls for a smaller government, Americans paid their lowest level of taxes last year since Harry Truman's presidency, a USA TODAY analysis of federal data found.

    Some conservative political movements such as the "Tea Party" have criticized federal spending as being out of control. While spending is up, taxes have fallen to exceptionally low levels.

    Federal, state and local income taxes consumed 9.2% of all personal income in 2009, the lowest rate since 1950, the Bureau of Economic Analysis reports. That rate is far below the historic average of 12% for the last half-century. The overall tax burden hit bottom in December at 8.8.% of income before rising slightly in the first three months of 2010."
    Hard to relate to an earlier time unless you lived then I guess. It's hard to explain to someone who didn't. I grew up in the 50's & 60's. As I said in my earlier post, everybody knew everybody in their neighborhood. People helped each other out because they knew that they might need help next week or next month. TV was in it's infancy and us kids only watched it when it was raining or sometimes in the evening. FAMILY was the focus in life, career and money, not so much. There was no such thing as a computer; people talked on the phone or face to face. Not much crime, at least not where I lived, which was in the Midwest. We played outside most of the time, year round, and our parents didn't have to worry about us being abducted or molested. We did things together as a family instead of going off in our own separate directions. We learned that we were expected to contribute whenever we did something as a family, such as painting the house. It seems to me that we had more individual freedom, there weren't all the rules and regulations that there are today. Of course there were fewer people also. But people seemed to conduct themselves in a more civilized and civil manner than they do today. Communities were closer knit. People knew that they faced social isolation if they behaved in a way that caused problems for other people. People seemed to respect authority more and those in authority respected the citizenry. It wasn't ideal by any means, we still had problems too, but they seem to pale in comparison to today's society. I'm glad I grew up then. There seems to have been a paradigm shift in values and it hasn't been for the better, IMO. I'm not saying that everything today is negative because it isn't, anymore than everything back then was positive, because it wasn't. I was and am just commenting on the OP's post. Of course we can't return to an earlier time, but we as a society could return to some earlier values. Obviously we need to do something as a society because we keep building more prisons. Something isn't working, that's for sure. I am speaking in general terms, not about anyone here so don't anyone get your feathers ruffled!
    Thank you, Deros, for sharing this video for our enjoyment!

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruby View Post
    FAMILY was the focus in life, career and money, not so much.
    Since I do not have the time to respond to everything you wrote, I did read it.

    This jumped out at me. Yes, there was a time where one parent could work while the other stay home. I hate to place blame but baby boomers have had in their control this country for a number of decades and did nothing about the jobs that were outsourced, and America moving from a manufacturing State to a....well, spend, spend, spend state.

    Parents need more time to spend with their children doing family things. Money rules every aspect of our lives now, and those who do not conform to waking up every morning, leaving their child in front of a TV and both parents running off to kill themselves at work everyday, suffers the consequences. Heck, those who do run off and kill themselves everyday for big business is chewed up and spit out when they get sick and are temporarily unable to work. Welcome to America, the individualistic utpoia so many people had dreamt of.

    We need to become a country of small business' again--how we do that when Corporations have a stronghold on our lives, I do not know.

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Hardin View Post
    I point out the disconnect in your statement. Low taxes do not excuse excessive spending. How can they?
    I point out the disconnect between the modern day "tea party," and the original Tea Party who actually did have something significant to revolt against.

    There needs to be a less partisan revolt against government overspending. The way this "revolt" is happening at this time is completely partisan, and highly political. I do not believe there is a "silent majority." IMO, if the "silent majority" actually exist, they either do not stand up because they do not care, or they do not stand up because there is nothing to complain about as far as they are concerned.

    BTW, does anyone know what the snake symbol on the tea party flag is supposed to mean? At least i think that is the tea party flag.

    Back to the topic at hand, what does this have to do more broadly with firearms...this nostalgic feelings so many people seem to have these days--I do wish that we had an N.R.A. certified high school course. I would go even further and say that I wish we had a high school course that delved into all Amendments of the Constitution. Although I am sure there will be a group of bozos yelling that it is nationalistic or something...both sides would have a hay-day with such a course.

    America has lost our culture of hard work and family to hard work, more hard work, and even more hard work to make ends meet. People do not work for companies their whole life anymore, there has been the dehumanization of people working for big businesses where we are nothing more than pawns that are discarded for the sake of the bottom line. Welcome to our beautiful Capitalism gone global.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
    Not exactly a good metric when 1/2 the population isn't paying an income tax http://money.cnn.com/2009/09/30/pf/t...axes/index.htm
    Same old broad statement. It makes sense until you start reading about the bottom 50% of Americans. At least 14% of those are considered absolutely poor, meaning, they are probably lucky if that have a meal to eat, and a pot to piss in. Then the rest make all the way up to 35k approximate a year. 35K is nothing these days.

    The funny thing about the wage gap is the top 1% have always made more every year while the rest of the population either seen a decline in wage, or the burden of higher insurance premiums, that is, if they are lucky to have health insurance.

    Warren Buffet, one of the richest men in the world pointed this out:

    "Buffet's secretary was taxed at a rate of 30 percent of the $60,000 she earned last year. Buffet, without seeking tax shelters or loopholes, paid less than 18 percent of his $46 million in income last year in tax."

    Sure, they pay half the taxes, but they have more than half the money. 1% of the population has more than half the money, and there is nothing wrong with that? The rich do not pay their portion of taxes, financially proportionally, not population proportional.

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    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia Plath View Post
    BTW, does anyone know what the snake symbol on the tea party flag is supposed to mean? At least i think that is the tea party flag.
    .
    It's not the "Tea Party flag," it's called the Gadsden flag. The yellow field with the snake, yes? It's one of the original flags of the American Revolution. I believe the symbol of the snake came from Ben Franklin:

    "She never begins an attack, nor, when once engaged, ever surrenders: She is therefore an emblem of magnanimity and true courage. ... she never wounds 'till she has generously given notice, even to her enemy, and cautioned him against the danger of treading on her."

    I don't know where you get the idea that the Tea Party is so partisan. There are people of all ideologies (conservative, libertarian, republican, democrat) who support and are engaged in the movement. The one unifying theme of the Tea Party is less taxes, and less government. Sure its partisan in that the current party in power is all about MORE government and MORE taxes, so thats where the natural antipathy lies. The Tea Party has also been known to call Republicans out for espousing that same tax & spend mentality.

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    Regular Member John Hardin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia Plath View Post
    I do wish that we had an N.R.A. certified high school course. I would go even further and say that I wish we had a high school course that delved into all Amendments of the Constitution.
    +1

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Hardin View Post
    +1
    I had my twelve year old read the Constitution Of The United States. The first bit was a frustrating for her, but I think she appreciates the fact that we have one. Although it seems most of us are not very patriotic until we are older.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia Plath View Post
    Since I do not have the time to respond to everything you wrote, I did read it.

    This jumped out at me. Yes, there was a time where one parent could work while the other stay home. I hate to place blame but baby boomers have had in their control this country for a number of decades and did nothing about the jobs that were outsourced, and America moving from a manufacturing State to a....well, spend, spend, spend state.

    Parents need more time to spend with their children doing family things. Money rules every aspect of our lives now, and those who do not conform to waking up every morning, leaving their child in front of a TV and both parents running off to kill themselves at work everyday, suffers the consequences. Heck, those who do run off and kill themselves everyday for big business is chewed up and spit out when they get sick and are temporarily unable to work. Welcome to America, the individualistic utpoia so many people had dreamt of.

    We need to become a country of small business' again--how we do that when Corporations have a stronghold on our lives, I do not know.
    Why do you find it necessary to place blame on anyone? You sound as though all of today's society's ills were caused by the baby boom generation. I take issue with that. I never blamed my parents' generation for the things that my generation has had to deal with. Each generation contributes both positive and negative things. I don't like it when people blame the younger generations either. Laying blame is an exercise in futility that accomplishes nothing. It's a cop-out; as long as the problem is some one else's fault, one is not responsible for doing anything about it. Believe me, I have experience with this, I have a brother who has never done anything wrong, all of his problems are someone else's fault. We are currently facing some very serious problems in society and it will take all of us working together responsibly to come up with the needed solutions to keep our society in tact. Pointing fingers and laying blame is not going to help and is a complete waste of time.
    I did not blame anyone in my post, I was simply reminicing about an earlier time that I am intimately familiar with. There are a lot of things to appreciate about today's society as well, and a lot that need some serious work. I never said that it was a time without problems. IMO, there is far too much finger pointing and blame as it is. We are ALL members of our current society regardless of generation, age, sex, color, yadda, yadda, yadda. Therefore it follows that we are all responsible for the world we live in; we all helped create the problems, consiously or unconsiouly, and we all can contribute to the solutions. I hope we can all work together to improve this country and this world and maybe show our government what it means to be responsible.

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    Warren Buffet, one of the richest men in the world pointed this out:

    "Buffet's secretary was taxed at a rate of 30 percent of the $60,000 she earned last year. Buffet, without seeking tax shelters or loopholes, paid less than 18 percent of his $46 million in income last year in tax."


    Sylvia you are so misinformed/not thinking or just plain dont understand what you are talking about again. the tax rates are as follows

    $0 to 8375 10%
    $8375 to $34000 15%
    $34000 to $60000 25%

    So Buffets secratary would have paid $873.50 on her first $8375 of income and $3843.75 from $8375 to $34000 and $6500 from $34001 to $60000 for a gramd total of $11180.00 or 19% of her income not 30%.

    It gets even less if Buffets secratary uses her standard deduction assuming no other deductions and assuming she is single it would come out to her paying $8680 in taxes for the year or 14% of her income. I am going to make a hugh leap here but I suspect that anyone Buffet is employing at that level is smart enough to take every legal deduction.

    Failure to understand really simple stuff like this is why there are so many people that do not do well in life.

    If you doubt me just go to turbo tax and run a dummy return.

    I seriously doubt that Buffet ever said anything even remotly like this and anyone with even a rudementary understanding of Federal Income Tax would have immediatly known it was false.

    Also your Tea Party statements are way wrong again, do some research that does not involve watching the evening news to arrive at your conclusions. Your conclusions about the Tea Party are about as accurate as your understanding of the Internal Revenue Services tax rates.

    So you are complaning that Buffet only paid 8.3 million dollars in income tax, thats 1 person, how exactly is that fair?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia Plath View Post
    Firearms related, we are living in a great time in America. America has become more and more firearm friendly with each passing year. And aside from the nay-sayer/fearmongers that hate this current administration, there has been no real movement from the current administration or congress to act on restricting firearms. It has been decades since we have had such significant court ruling such as Mcdonald, and D.C.
    First, let me be the first to say how genuinely surreal it is to encounter someone using the name Sylvia Plath on on a gun forum.

    You are right, of course. This is an almost golden age for firearms owners. Regrettably, we may one day look back on this time as the "good old days." That is why it is wise to acknowledge the strides we have made, and keep our momentum so that things can only get better.

    Beyond our rights, our options and choice as citizens, in terms of the firearms we can buy, is remarkable. I am speaking mainly in terms of the market: polymer carry guns to modern, well-engineered 1911s, to the AR-15 platform and all of the available accessories. It is appropriate to celebrate the ground we've regained.

    I think that there is a lot of misinformation, and there are many groups of people who are capitalizing on the instability and flaming fear.

    I have always felt that if someone needs to use fear to convince me of something or persuade me to do something, they do not have my best interests in mind. General fear is healthy, and a normal part of the rational human experience. But the level of fear being regurgitated day in and day out on some of these "news" programs is downright disgusting.
    I agree with you, but that is you and me. At this point, having watched the actions of our government just over the past ten years, I wonder where the line between fear and vigilance is. Here is something to ponder: if the gun rights movement did not employ fear to motivate its rank-and-file, and as a result we had made no progress, if you had to choose would you rather fear and progress, or even-handedness and stagnation?

    One of the things I say to my more liberal friends about the NRA is, that for all of its compromises, overall and in aggregate, the NRA and groups like it, work. I don't personally need "they're coming to get our guns" kind of messaging to be active or principled on this matter, but I suspect - unfortunately - some gun owners do. I wish it were not the case. I wish the movement could be dispassionate or cold even - and equally effective. The NRA, to pick one example, is one of the most feared lobbying organizations in the country. And yet it employs fear, and turns that fear into the juice it has in Washington. Do the ends justify the means? I don't know. My support of the Second Amendment solidified in a left-wing political science department (Rutgers). I realized I didn't trust anyone to make my decisions for me, and I also realized that there were a whole lot of people on the right and left who each insisted they knew what was best for me.

    I tend to trust people as individuals. It is when they gather together in groups that they tend to worry me.

    I am sure there were many things that were very good "back then." Just as there are many things good at this time.

    There was a lot of social turmoil "back then." Brown v. Board Of Education--bad time for black Americans who had to go through the court system to go to, and receive a "white" education. WWII was a very bad time--Pearl Harbor--Hitler, etc. Prior, was that a better time, the Great Depression, WWI? Segregation, women not having a right to vote, slavery. Just when was there a "better time in America?"
    I stopped being a conservative and started being a libertarian when I came to understand that it was the principle of liberty as it is which was important to me, and not the mythical and often distorted historical context that mattered. I still think we came out ahead after the 60s. I am glad the civil rights movement happened. I am glad there is no segregation. I am happy feminism happened and the sexual revolution happened. There are many kinds of tyranny over the individual and his or her mind that those who rhapsodize about the good old days don't recognize as such. But I do.

    That said, and all due respect paid to this, there are things in the past, taken on their own, that I am nostalgic for. My grandfather's generation (WW2) seemed to have a classiness and principle and sense of community - that part of being an American was benevolence to others - that the modern world seems to be short on (not that it is nonexistent). As for the American Revolution, it is more the Age of Enlightenment and Age of Reason roots which interest me. Cynical historians have attempted to reduce the American Revolution to a kind of temper tantrum about paying taxes, and I have always resented this.

    I am not a conservative - I have stated this before. But I share some ground with conservatives on matters mainly of personal honor. Honor is worthwhile because honor is worthwhile, not merely because it is something some people tend to associate with the past. I am more than willing to give aspects of the past a viking funeral - these things would include radial prejudice, slavery, sexism, and so on. I will not shed a tear for them. But the past is a mixture of the good and bad. The challenge is to carry the good with us and celebrate who we were *when we were at our best*, and more importantly - who we can be.

    We can be a better nation than we are, and I believe all of us - myself most of all - can be better Americans than we presently are. In order to take proper stock of this, we must of course be concerned with modernity and our deficiencies and virtues measured against the modern world.

    Don't get me wrong, I am not saying there were not good things in the past, there are many good things. Baby boomers seem to thing that their era was the ideal era and it is not.
    Every generation gets a bit silly with nostalgia. I grew up in the 1980s, and I run into people who insist the music was better and politics was better (Reagan) and so on. I don't remember it that way. I remember a shallow culture and bellicose flag-waving, not to mention a spendy government which expanded its powers in terms of the drug war and gun control. I try to be objective.

    You know what counts with me most though? Whether people have the capacity to be kind to each other or not. My memory of the 1980s is distorted by having been young, but I keep getting the sense that we live in a nastier culture today. "I" is the most important thing in terms of constituting a government based on rights, but there is also "we" and "us" which forms the armor around our nationhood. I think too many of us are at each others' throats, misconstruing or purposely distorting each other's motivations (my own character has been smeared on this very forum), and not only is this counterproductive in terms of building solidarity among American citizens, but it makes it far more difficult to engage emotionally with my own country.

    I am getting to the age where I look back when I was younger and think about "better days." I am only thirty-two, but remember a day when kids would go out and play. The neighborhood that we live in is full of kids who never go outside and play, even during the summer time. Sad.
    And I think this is exactly right. I spent a lot of time outside, and then as a teenager riding my bike. Too much time in front of video screens now.

    I have really struggled with this nostalgia that has seem to swept up individuals who make up The Tea Party. The Tea Party is a right wing organization who has taken on this idea of going back to a better time.
    This is the sense I get too but it varies from place to place. The Tea Party in New Hampshire is my kind of Tea Party.

    The single biggest problem on both the right and left is each side tends not to read and critically think about the other side's arguments. Each side begins with the foregone conclusion that the other side is bankrupt, and then each listens to the echo chamber confirming their own prejudices.

    Discourse is dead in the United States because of this.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crisisweasel View Post
    ...good stuff...
    +1

    Don't agree with everything you said, but very very well said all the same
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

  19. #19
    Regular Member John Hardin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia Plath View Post
    ... it seems most of us are not very patriotic until we are older.
    Nope. You have to learn the value of what you have before you become energetic about protecting it. For most people the freedoms the Constitution protects are like water for a fish.

  20. #20
    TWG2A
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    If this weren't so very sad, it'd be LAUGHABLE.

    Trying to debate with the indoctrinated leftists is like trying to explain to a jacked-up heroin addict about the dangers of heroin.

    Anyway....... Moving here to Montana has been good for me for several reasons... Here's what it's like in a Patriotic U.S.A. Community.

    1) For being a Patriotic American Citizen, I haven't been punched, kicked, tripped, shoved, spat upon or slapped since I left Seattle.
    2) For being a Patriotic American Citizen, I haven't had urine thrown in my face, had my hair cut or had gum put in my hair since I left Seattle.
    3) For being a Patriotic American Citizen, I haven't had a pitbull sicked on me since I left Seattle.
    4) Here in Montana, we don't have the indoctrinated leftists calling us filthy, vile names (unless they're hiding behind their keyboard). YET.
    5) Here in Montana, you won't see the indoctrinated, glassy-eyed, slack-jawed, limp-wristed, disease-ridden heroin addicts burning our flag or urinating/deficating on it. YET.
    6) Here in Montana, if someone disagrees with your politics they know better than to spit in your face or call you filthy names. They seem to understand here that there are consequences to their actions, something you won't see in Seattle.
    7) Here in Montana, the Men are MEN. And they know exactly what they are. Gentlemen. A far cry from the indoctrinated sissies living in capitol hill and downtown Seattle.
    8) Our Veterans are treated well for the most part here in Montana (There's ALWAYS room for imporvement). We value their service to our Country and we take care of them when they need our help. We don't spit in their faces and call them "murderers" and "baby killers".
    9) Here in Montana, the only death threats I receive are aimed at my blog from those hiding behind their keyboards. Not to my face.

    At our Independence Day Parade in Ennis, we didn't see the indoctrinated leftists burning our flags, calling us filthy names or spitting and/or urinating on us for carrying our flag through the parade or for reciting the Pledge Of Allegiance. The Fourth Of July still MEANS SOMETHING here in Small Town U.S.A.

    Yes, I'm very happy here. And if we have our way, we will nip things in the bud the minute some vile leftist pulls their crap here in Montana. Thank God For Small Town U.S.A.

  21. #21
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    Isnt it odd that the places where people are respectful of one another are also the places no one cares about an openly carried firearm. I also live just outsideof a small town, Deer Park WA, way too close to Spokane but still a small town. A place where when I went to the auto parts store the other day I got stopped by an employee to settle an argument between two other employees as to whether my gun was a Glock or an XD. Or when I got my hair cut yesterday another customer asked me how she could get her husband to carry more. No one calls 911 and as the hair cutter said no one messes with Orphan cause he's packing all the time. Life is good in small town USA, life was also good in small town USA 40, 50 years ago.

  22. #22
    TWG2A
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    ...An Armed Society

    How True.

    An Armed Society Is A Polite Society.

    The only reason anyone looks twice at open carry here in Montana is to see (admire) what you're carrying. The usual question I'm asked here is from Men asking how to get their wives to carry.

  23. #23
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by TWG2A View Post
    If this weren't so very sad, it'd be LAUGHABLE.

    Trying to debate with the indoctrinated leftists is like trying to explain to a jacked-up heroin addict about the dangers of heroin.

    Anyway....... Moving here to Montana has been good for me for several reasons... Here's what it's like in a Patriotic U.S.A. Community.

    1) For being a Patriotic American Citizen, I haven't been punched, kicked, tripped, shoved, spat upon or slapped since I left Seattle.
    2) For being a Patriotic American Citizen, I haven't had urine thrown in my face, had my hair cut or had gum put in my hair since I left Seattle.
    3) For being a Patriotic American Citizen, I haven't had a pitbull sicked on me since I left Seattle.
    4) Here in Montana, we don't have the indoctrinated leftists calling us filthy, vile names (unless they're hiding behind their keyboard). YET.
    5) Here in Montana, you won't see the indoctrinated, glassy-eyed, slack-jawed, limp-wristed, disease-ridden heroin addicts burning our flag or urinating/deficating on it. YET.
    6) Here in Montana, if someone disagrees with your politics they know better than to spit in your face or call you filthy names. They seem to understand here that there are consequences to their actions, something you won't see in Seattle.
    7) Here in Montana, the Men are MEN. And they know exactly what they are. Gentlemen. A far cry from the indoctrinated sissies living in capitol hill and downtown Seattle.
    8) Our Veterans are treated well for the most part here in Montana (There's ALWAYS room for imporvement). We value their service to our Country and we take care of them when they need our help. We don't spit in their faces and call them "murderers" and "baby killers".
    9) Here in Montana, the only death threats I receive are aimed at my blog from those hiding behind their keyboards. Not to my face.

    At our Independence Day Parade in Ennis, we didn't see the indoctrinated leftists burning our flags, calling us filthy names or spitting and/or urinating on us for carrying our flag through the parade or for reciting the Pledge Of Allegiance. The Fourth Of July still MEANS SOMETHING here in Small Town U.S.A.

    Yes, I'm very happy here. And if we have our way, we will nip things in the bud the minute some vile leftist pulls their crap here in Montana. Thank God For Small Town U.S.A.
    Sounds like heaven on earth to me!
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world; it's the only thing that ever does.- Margaret Mead


    Those who will not fight for justice today will fight for their lives in the future,

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. Benjamin Franklin

  24. #24
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TWG2A View Post
    At our Independence Day Parade in Ennis, we didn't see the indoctrinated leftists burning our flags, calling us filthy names or spitting and/or urinating on us for carrying our flag through the parade or for reciting the Pledge Of Allegiance. The Fourth Of July still MEANS SOMETHING here in Small Town U.S.A.

    Yes, I'm very happy here. And if we have our way, we will nip things in the bud the minute some vile leftist pulls their crap here in Montana. Thank God For Small Town U.S.A.
    A little dramatic? I am sure flag burning leftists who pee all over people are not as common as you wish they were.

    "Leftists," whatever you might mean by that, have as much respect for, and investment in America as right wingers. I think it is funny when someone does not agree with the views of another person they refer to them as a leftist. Enjoy Montana.

  25. #25
    TWG2A
    Guest
    "Sylvia"...


    You obviously haven't spent enough time with your pals in downtown Seattle lately.

    I have.

    They are VILE. And THAT is why I left my home of almost 50 years.
    Last edited by TWG2A; 07-07-2010 at 09:55 PM.

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