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Thread: state parks, state campgrounds

  1. #1
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    state parks, state campgrounds

    I'm trying to find out info for a co-worker. He is taking his family to tahquamenon falls and would like to cc there, he doesn't do the oc thing. I know it is legal to cc in state parks (MCL 324.504) but am I correct in assuming that a
    state park campgroung which they would be staying at would fall under the same code?

    When I give him the info I'll be sure to tell him I am not a lawyer.

    gettysburg

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    It is perfectly legal for him to CC everywhere in the park!
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    I had a question like this that never got answered. NO CPL. Can I oc in state/federal parks, reserves, campgrounds, or any other type of "nature" area?

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    Quote Originally Posted by qqq1 View Post
    I had a question like this that never got answered. NO CPL. Can I oc in state/federal parks, reserves, campgrounds, or any other type of "nature" area?
    Without a CPL you can't OC in state parks, Federal (I'm assuming you mean National) Parks are legal to OC in without a CPL, just don't go into any of the buildings (can't carry where employees work), but private businesses located within the park are ok. Same goes for national monuments, and national wildlife refuges, and national forests/grasslands.

    As far as state campgrounds, that aren't state parks, I have no clue. City parks, nature preserves should all be o.k.

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    How do you tell the difference between a state park, and a state campground? I have a feeling that if you asked the person at the ticket booth, they wouldnt know that there was a difference.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Master Control's Avatar
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    Post State Parks

    Quote Originally Posted by Yooper View Post
    Without a CPL you can't OC in state parks, Federal (I'm assuming you mean National) Parks are legal to OC in without a CPL, just don't go into any of the buildings (can't carry where employees work), but private businesses located within the park are ok. Same goes for national monuments, and national wildlife refuges, and national forests/grasslands.

    As far as state campgrounds, that aren't state parks, I have no clue. City parks, nature preserves should all be o.k.
    HHhhhmmmmm, WOW I wonder if all the participates that are attending the MGO picnic have this infomation.
    I heard it was going to be at a (what I thought was) State Park.
    anybody wanna chime in?

  8. #8
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yooper View Post
    Without a CPL you can't OC in state parks, Federal (I'm assuming you mean National) Parks are legal to OC in without a CPL, just don't go into any of the buildings (can't carry where employees work), but private businesses located within the park are ok. Same goes for national monuments, and national wildlife refuges, and national forests/grasslands.

    As far as state campgrounds, that aren't state parks, I have no clue. City parks, nature preserves should all be o.k.
    I am quite sure you can OC in state parks WITHOUT a cpl. Now I have to do some digging... We had this discussion some months back and Venator and Zig cited the laws that support this.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  9. #9
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    OK here it is!

    "PDinDetroit wrote: See #6 that I have highlighted below.

    IANAL, but my take:

    CPL Holders can possess Pistols in State Parks and Recreation Areas outside of hunting seasons established for those parks/areas

    http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7...1687--,00.html

    (All state parks and recreation areas are closed to hunting from April 1 through September 14, except in areas designated open during the earlyCanada goose season and spring wild turkey season).



    NATURAL RESOURCES AND ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION ACT (EXCERPT)
    Act 451 of 1994

    324.504 Department of natural resources; rules for protection and preservation of lands and property; duties of department; report; applicability of subsections (2) and (3) to commercial forestland; certain rules prohibited; orders; violation as civil infraction; fine.

    Sec. 504.

    (1) The department shall promulgate rules to protect and preserve lands and other property under its control from depredation, damage, or destruction or wrongful or improper use or occupancy.
    (2) Subject to subsection (4), the department shall do all of the following:

    (a) Keep land under its control open to hunting unless the department determines that the land should be closed to hunting because of public safety, fish or wildlife management, or homeland security concerns or as otherwise required by law.

    (b) Manage land under its control to support and promote hunting opportunities to the extent authorized by law.

    (c) Manage land under its control to prevent any net decrease in the acreage of such land that is open to hunting.

    (3) Subject to subsection (4), by April 1, 2010 and each year thereafter, the department shall submit to the legislature a report that includes all of the following:

    (a) The location and acreage of land under its control previously open to hunting that the department closed to hunting during the 1-year period ending the preceding March 1, together with the reasons for the closure.

    (b) The location and acreage of land under its control previously closed to hunting that the department opened to hunting during the 1-year period ending the preceding March 1 to compensate for land closed to hunting under subdivision (a).

    (4) Subsections (2) and (3) do not apply to commercial forestland as defined in section 51101.

    (5) This section does not authorize the department to promulgate a rule that applies to commercial fishing except as otherwise provided by law.

    (6) The department shall not promulgate or enforce a rule that prohibits an individual who is licensed or exempt from licensure under 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.421 to 28.435, from carrying a pistol in compliance with that act, whether concealed or otherwise, on property under the control of the department.


    (7) The department shall issue orders necessary to implement rules promulgated under this section. These orders shall be effective upon posting.

    (8) A person who violates a rule promulgated under this section or an order issued under this section is responsible for a state civil infraction and may be ordered to pay a civil fine of not more than $500.00.


    History: 1994, Act 451, Eff. Mar. 30, 1995 ;-- Am. 1996, Act 171, Imd. Eff. Apr. 18, 1996 ;-- Am. 2004, Act 130, Imd. Eff. June 3, 2004 ;-- Am. 2009, Act 47, Imd. Eff. June 18, 2009
    Popular Name: Act 451
    Popular Name: NREPA
    Admin Rule: R 299.291a et seq. and R 299.921 et seq. of the Michigan Administrative Code."


    Venator wrote:

    Not just CPL holders 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.421 to 28.435, covers purchase permits, etc. So it basically states if the handgun is legal and you can possess it you are good to go.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  10. #10
    Regular Member G22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Master Control View Post
    HHhhhmmmmm, WOW I wonder if all the participates that are attending the MGO picnic have this infomation.
    I heard it was going to be at a (what I thought was) State Park.
    anybody wanna chime in?
    Its at Kensington Metropark which is not a state park.

    I believe that MOC has talked with the metropark chief and he and their officers know that OC is legal at the metroparks.

  11. #11
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    correct. the state park, Island Lake State Park, is across the freeway. you should be able to carry CC or OC in both.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Yooper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by autosurgeon View Post
    OK here it is!

    "PDinDetroit wrote: See #6 that I have highlighted below.

    IANAL, but my take:

    CPL Holders can possess Pistols in State Parks and Recreation Areas outside of hunting seasons established for those parks/areas

    http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7...1687--,00.html

    (All state parks and recreation areas are closed to hunting from April 1 through September 14, except in areas designated open during the earlyCanada goose season and spring wild turkey season).



    NATURAL RESOURCES AND ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION ACT (EXCERPT)
    Act 451 of 1994

    324.504 Department of natural resources; rules for protection and preservation of lands and property; duties of department; report; applicability of subsections (2) and (3) to commercial forestland; certain rules prohibited; orders; violation as civil infraction; fine.

    Sec. 504.

    (1) The department shall promulgate rules to protect and preserve lands and other property under its control from depredation, damage, or destruction or wrongful or improper use or occupancy.
    (2) Subject to subsection (4), the department shall do all of the following:

    (a) Keep land under its control open to hunting unless the department determines that the land should be closed to hunting because of public safety, fish or wildlife management, or homeland security concerns or as otherwise required by law.

    (b) Manage land under its control to support and promote hunting opportunities to the extent authorized by law.

    (c) Manage land under its control to prevent any net decrease in the acreage of such land that is open to hunting.

    (3) Subject to subsection (4), by April 1, 2010 and each year thereafter, the department shall submit to the legislature a report that includes all of the following:

    (a) The location and acreage of land under its control previously open to hunting that the department closed to hunting during the 1-year period ending the preceding March 1, together with the reasons for the closure.

    (b) The location and acreage of land under its control previously closed to hunting that the department opened to hunting during the 1-year period ending the preceding March 1 to compensate for land closed to hunting under subdivision (a).

    (4) Subsections (2) and (3) do not apply to commercial forestland as defined in section 51101.

    (5) This section does not authorize the department to promulgate a rule that applies to commercial fishing except as otherwise provided by law.

    (6) The department shall not promulgate or enforce a rule that prohibits an individual who is licensed or exempt from licensure under 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.421 to 28.435, from carrying a pistol in compliance with that act, whether concealed or otherwise, on property under the control of the department.


    (7) The department shall issue orders necessary to implement rules promulgated under this section. These orders shall be effective upon posting.

    (8) A person who violates a rule promulgated under this section or an order issued under this section is responsible for a state civil infraction and may be ordered to pay a civil fine of not more than $500.00.


    History: 1994, Act 451, Eff. Mar. 30, 1995 ;-- Am. 1996, Act 171, Imd. Eff. Apr. 18, 1996 ;-- Am. 2004, Act 130, Imd. Eff. June 3, 2004 ;-- Am. 2009, Act 47, Imd. Eff. June 18, 2009
    Popular Name: Act 451
    Popular Name: NREPA
    Admin Rule: R 299.291a et seq. and R 299.921 et seq. of the Michigan Administrative Code."


    Venator wrote:

    Not just CPL holders 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.421 to 28.435, covers purchase permits, etc. So it basically states if the handgun is legal and you can possess it you are good to go.
    I stand corrected, thanks for the update. I had thought the law only applied to CPL holders, and was the reason the DNR couldn't restrict CPL holders from carrying while bow hunting, but COULD prevent someone from carrying if they didn't have a CPL.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Yooper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    How do you tell the difference between a state park, and a state campground? I have a feeling that if you asked the person at the ticket booth, they wouldnt know that there was a difference.
    You pay to get in to a state park, and they put the sticker in your window, you don't pay to get into a state campground, you only pay the fee if you actually camp there

  14. #14
    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yooper View Post
    You pay to get in to a state park, and they put the sticker in your window, you don't pay to get into a state campground, you only pay the fee if you actually camp there
    I was at a state campground this weekend, and you had to pay for camping, than you had to pay $6 per day per vehicle (or have an annual pass) that has nothing to do with camping, you have to pay this if just visiting, or going swimming.
    "Bam, I like saying bam when I cite something, in fact I think I shall do this from here on out, as long as I remember.
    Bam!" - eastmeyers

    "Then said he to them, But now he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his sack: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
    Luke 22:36
    God Bless

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by autosurgeon View Post
    OK here it is!

    "PDinDetroit wrote: See #6 that I have highlighted below.

    IANAL, but my take:

    CPL Holders can possess Pistols in State Parks and Recreation Areas outside of hunting seasons established for those parks/areas

    http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7...1687--,00.html

    (All state parks and recreation areas are closed to hunting from April 1 through September 14, except in areas designated open during the earlyCanada goose season and spring wild turkey season).



    NATURAL RESOURCES AND ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION ACT (EXCERPT)
    Act 451 of 1994

    324.504 Department of natural resources; rules for protection and preservation of lands and property; duties of department; report; applicability of subsections (2) and (3) to commercial forestland; certain rules prohibited; orders; violation as civil infraction; fine.

    Sec. 504.

    (1) The department shall promulgate rules to protect and preserve lands and other property under its control from depredation, damage, or destruction or wrongful or improper use or occupancy.
    (2) Subject to subsection (4), the department shall do all of the following:

    (a) Keep land under its control open to hunting unless the department determines that the land should be closed to hunting because of public safety, fish or wildlife management, or homeland security concerns or as otherwise required by law.

    (b) Manage land under its control to support and promote hunting opportunities to the extent authorized by law.

    (c) Manage land under its control to prevent any net decrease in the acreage of such land that is open to hunting.

    (3) Subject to subsection (4), by April 1, 2010 and each year thereafter, the department shall submit to the legislature a report that includes all of the following:

    (a) The location and acreage of land under its control previously open to hunting that the department closed to hunting during the 1-year period ending the preceding March 1, together with the reasons for the closure.

    (b) The location and acreage of land under its control previously closed to hunting that the department opened to hunting during the 1-year period ending the preceding March 1 to compensate for land closed to hunting under subdivision (a).

    (4) Subsections (2) and (3) do not apply to commercial forestland as defined in section 51101.

    (5) This section does not authorize the department to promulgate a rule that applies to commercial fishing except as otherwise provided by law.

    (6) The department shall not promulgate or enforce a rule that prohibits an individual who is licensed or exempt from licensure under 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.421 to 28.435, from carrying a pistol in compliance with that act, whether concealed or otherwise, on property under the control of the department.


    (7) The department shall issue orders necessary to implement rules promulgated under this section. These orders shall be effective upon posting.

    (8) A person who violates a rule promulgated under this section or an order issued under this section is responsible for a state civil infraction and may be ordered to pay a civil fine of not more than $500.00.


    History: 1994, Act 451, Eff. Mar. 30, 1995 ;-- Am. 1996, Act 171, Imd. Eff. Apr. 18, 1996 ;-- Am. 2004, Act 130, Imd. Eff. June 3, 2004 ;-- Am. 2009, Act 47, Imd. Eff. June 18, 2009
    Popular Name: Act 451
    Popular Name: NREPA
    Admin Rule: R 299.291a et seq. and R 299.921 et seq. of the Michigan Administrative Code."


    Venator wrote:

    Not just CPL holders 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.421 to 28.435, covers purchase permits, etc. So it basically states if the handgun is legal and you can possess it you are good to go.
    +1
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eastmeyers View Post
    I was at a state campground this weekend, and you had to pay for camping, than you had to pay $6 per day per vehicle (or have an annual pass) that has nothing to do with camping, you have to pay this if just visiting, or going swimming.
    Not to long ago the state was running with the idea of just adding on a amount to vehicle registration fo the annual
    pass. You could tell them that you did not plan on visiting a state park at all (scouts honor) and get the fee waved.
    Anybody here of this or know what became of it?

    gettysburg

  17. #17
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Oct 1 you will start paying a mandatory fee when renewing or registring a vehicle.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  18. #18
    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by autosurgeon View Post
    Oct 1 you will start paying a mandatory fee when renewing or registring a vehicle.
    Yes $10 the DNR seemed very excited about this as they explained it to the campers
    "Bam, I like saying bam when I cite something, in fact I think I shall do this from here on out, as long as I remember.
    Bam!" - eastmeyers

    "Then said he to them, But now he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his sack: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
    Luke 22:36
    God Bless

  19. #19
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eastmeyers View Post
    Yes $10 the DNR seemed very excited about this as they explained it to the campers
    Of course they are ... steady revenue makes a budget easier!

    I don't mind as I plan to start using the state parks again.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by autosurgeon View Post
    Oct 1 you will start paying a mandatory fee when renewing or registring a vehicle.
    The $10 fee is not mandatory. You can opt out if you choose to.

  21. #21
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maustin195 View Post
    The $10 fee is not mandatory. You can opt out if you choose to.
    Ah you are correct! That is a good deal however.. it would cost me 15.00 for my car and bike instead of 50.00 for both now.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  22. #22
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    it is a great deal. and, we would not need to put a sticker in our window.

    they should take another 5$ for the Huron-Clinton Metroparks and seven Oakland County Parks.

    i would be game for that.

  23. #23
    Regular Member Master Control's Avatar
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    Arrow MetroParks in reply

    Quote Originally Posted by Yooper View Post
    I stand corrected, thanks for the update. I had thought the law only applied to CPL holders, and was the reason the DNR couldn't restrict CPL holders from carrying while bow hunting, but COULD prevent someone from carrying if they didn't have a CPL.

    http://www.metroparks.com/content.aspx?ID=127

  24. #24
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Master Control View Post
    Someone should let them know they cannot regulate ANY firearms carry period!
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  25. #25
    Regular Member Reloaded's Avatar
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    So I should be safe open carrying at Pontiac Lake Recreation in Waterford?

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