Open Carry in Rural Northern California 2010

Open Carry in Rural Northern California 2010 - Continued

July 30th 2010

This is the seventh consecutive day of open carry activity. I stepped out this time, loaded open carry with gloves and a trashbag, along with my active digital audio recorder. I took it upon myself to pick up some of the roadside litter. This added activity paired with the late start meant that I couldnt go all the way out to my typical landmark. I went about three quarters of the way, filling my 33 gallon plastic trash bag with paper, cans, plastic cups, bottles, cigarette boxes, compact discs and other refuse. This was a surprising workout- stooping to pick up litter and placing it into a gradually heavier sack... I had to forgo picking up more trash about a half mile from my goal as it was bulging to capacity and weighed about 25 pounds. Traffic seemed moderate. No interaction to report.

Open Carry in Rural Northern California 2010 - Continued

August 1, 2010

Anderson, California

I drove to the Anderson Market Place and parked in the center of the parking lot between the Walmart Supercenter and the cluster of smaller buinesses. I walked to Panda Express passing a cluster of people in front of the sandwich shop. I stepped into line, ordered and paid for my lunch. I sat near the window so I could observe police rolling up code three. I patiently waited, and despite the assurances that I would be the focus of wasted police resources, none came.

I placed the remains of my lunch in the garbage and walked back towards Walmart. As I was collecting a cart from the cart corral, I was approached by a woman in her early twenties. She explained that she was from out of the area and that she needed $30 for a tire- she had been driving with a 'doughnut' and wanted to replace it. I explained to her that I would like to help, but I do not give cash to strangers. She thanked me for my time and made no mention of the firearm.

I guided the cart into Walmart, which was crowded and began circulating the aisles for my goods. I went to the electronics department and recieved help from a store employee in finding a surge protector for my A/V gear and a battery backup for my computer. I then filled my cart with groceries. When I got to the produce department, a man in passing asked what kind of weapon I had. I informed him it is a Ruger P-89. He mumbled something and moved on. This was the only mention of my firearm during my shopping trip.

While I was in the checkout line, a cluster of 4 or 5 people were walking at the front of the store towards the exit. One of the women was intermittantly making loud bird noises, creating a disturbance that has attracted the attention of one of the floor supervisors. She was on the radio while she placed the 'Line Closed' placard on the conveyor behind my goods. Seems the supervisor was more concerned with the featherless tattooed parrot, than the lone gunman standing two feet from her.

I walked into the Tri-Counties bank and up to the teller window, presented $25 and requested a roll of golden dollars. The teller made the exchange and I thanked her. To be honest, I had no particular need to make change, other than to pad my anecdote. No robbery took place- no shoot out with authorities, in spite of those that believe the handgun in plain view would instigate such a response.

After two hours of milling about in public with an exposed firearm, there was no police interaction.

You might look a little too much like an LEO to get any real scrutiny. You mentioned gaining a few pounds, (often a characterisitc associated with donut eating cops), probably still short hair, conservative dress, strongly caucasion looking, and boldly exposed firearm with no accompanying guilt look. Hell, I'm more surprised that someone hasn't contacted you during one those outings screaming, "officer! Arrest that man!"

AyatollahGondola said:

You might look a little too much like an LEO to get any real scrutiny. You mentioned gaining a few pounds, (often a characterisitc associated with donut eating cops), probably still short hair, conservative dress, strongly caucasian [IFIFY] looking, and boldly exposed firearm with no accompanying guilt look. Hell, I'm more surprised that someone hasn't contacted you during one those outings screaming, "officer! Arrest that man!"

Click to expand...

While your generalization of law enforcement appearances being white, pudgey fellows with short haircuts might explain the absense of multiple calls of MWAG, you (and probably others) are overlooking a few key hints that I am not a peace officer.

My attire is casual- today it's shorts and a t-shirt, not the 'business casual' you would see of an investigator.
I have no shield or star displayed.
My facial hair is not 'regulation'.
While it is not illegal for peace officers to carry openly off-duty, most departments would require them to conceal.
My carry gear is a mixed bag- some of it is worn and some of it is new and it is not accompanied with handcuffs.

I would however, agree that those who carry themselves as if they have the authority are generally accepted as if they possess that authority. This is something that new open carriers should be cautioned on; as carrying as if you are conducting a social experiment, acting flinchy, nervous, or in a manner that would lead others to believe you were doing something that you shouldnt, will almost always attract undesired attention.

I also carry daily, down here in Oakley and the Delta.

While I can not LOC, and C3 does, in most cases due to incpr. In over two yrs of daily carry, I have only been "E"checked once, outside of a major event pre-check. Most LEO's just pass on by and never give me a second look.
I dress in Levis and polo'd mainly and am most of the time clean shaven.
Last week a small group of us(4) were E-checked here in town. We had gone out to dinner and after we were done, stood around on the parking lot corner talking for about an hour. We entered the res before 6, and around 8:30 a few officers drove up. We seen them coming and know the drill. Everyone envoled, both us and the LEO's were professional. We were all joking about the E-checks after being there for over 2 hrs.

ConditionThree said:

While your generalization of law enforcement appearances being white, pudgey fellows with short haircuts might explain the absense of multiple calls of MWAG,.

Click to expand...

Hey! I never used the word pudgey

Open Carry in Rural Northern California 2010 - Continued

August 2nd, 2010

Carried loaded and exposed on my walk, digital recorder running. Traffic was heavier than usual. Encountered another pedestrian walking the opposite direction engrossed in their Ipod tunes- they waved as they passed rather than offering a verbal greeting. A mother and her little girl waved as they passed me in their car. On the return leg, I encountered an equestrian and we exchanged greetings. A moment later a green Chevy Blazer with a Shasta County Search and Rescue decal passed too fast and too close to the equestrian for comfort, resulting in some words of consternation from the imperiled rider.

August 3rd, 2010

Carried loaded and exposed, digital recorder running. I had ambitions to go further up the road than the bridge, but elected not to due to the waning light. Passed another pedestrian going the opposite direction, as well as a pair of cyclists, and a lone cyclist further up the road. I estimate twenty or more cars passing. No interaction aside from greeting the passers by.

In checking online resources, I am burning about 250 calories each time I walk to the bridge and back. If I maintain a 2000 calorie diet, I will have to walk this circuit 280 more times to achieve my weight loss goal. If I made this walk every day- It will be May 10, 2011 before I reach my goal.

I think I will have to step up the physical activity to accelerate my timetable.

Open Carry in Rural Northern California 2010 - Continued

August 6th, 2010

Carried loaded and exposed, digital recorder running. Traffic was much heavier tonight (I estimate I was passed by 40-50 cars.) and I added about another mile to my circuit by walking out to the traffic light and back. On the return leg, a family of four pedestrians passed me going the opposite direction. Because of the added distance and the late start I didnt return home until dark. No interaction to relay.

August 7th, 2010

Drove to Redding today with pistol cased and locked. This was because in getting my haircut the firearm would become concealed and my second stop was in a too-close-to-call territory. I wandered around the electronics store for the better part of an hour and a half with an exposed magazine pouch and an empty holster. While I was getting a new deck installed in my truck, a long time supporter called me to talk about my plans as well as recent changes in their life.

After I paid my tab, I drove to the Subway sandwich shop, uncased my pistol and UOC'd with the digital recorder running. When I entered, there was a mom and her three kids seated, a man in front of me ordering his sandwich and a couple who were also seated. After I got my sandwich and drink I sat in the table adjacent to the mom and urchins, strong side exposed to the aisle. People came and went. I took my time enjoying my sandwich, dropped my garbage and left. I walked a few doors down to the AT&T mobile phone store to pay my bill and look at some accessories for my new mobile phone. The salesperson showed me a case, holster, car charger, and a bluetooth- and offered me a package deal- so now I have a bluetooth I hadnt planned on buying. I'm sure this technology is great, but I generally think people using them are self-absorbed and goofy looking.

No interaction to report- might have gotten a sideways glance from a passenger in a passing car, but nothing came of it. (Maybe it was my new haircut.)

Open Carry in Rural Northern California 2010 - Continued

August 8th, 2010

I have a confession to make.

I have been camoflaging the fact that I have been carrying an exposed handgun with my moustache. More about that later... now for today's highlights.

After doing some housework, I had worked up an appetite for lunch. I drove to Mary's Pizza Shack in the Shasta Factory Outlets in Anderson. I carried unloaded with the digital recorder running. I was seated promptly next to table with Mom, Dad and two youngin's. An older couple was seated just after me across the aisle. No one seemed to be eyeballing me or made any comment of my state of being armed.

After finishing my lunch I paid my server and walked across the parking lot to the Prime Cinemas. I purchased a ticket from the theater general manager and got popcorn and an iced tea to enjoy. The consessionaire eyeballed my sidearm as she served me, but made no comment and asked no questions. (I think I like hgreens t-shirt concept... "ask me") Before entering the theater I turned off my digital recorder and placed it on standby while I watched the movie.

When I left the theater, I reactivated the recorder and drove to Walmart to make my weekly grocery shopping trip. This represents the third week running that I have UOC'd in Walmart, with no unusual encounters. On my way out of an aisle, me and another shopper were vying for the same space at the same time. She said "With a moustache like that you should definately go first..." I thanked her and went on my way. A few weeks ago, I stopped trimming the hair below my nose- It is now occasionally groomed in a modest handlebar style moustache. To my surprise, no mention was made of my pistol.

As I have pointed out repeatedly- most people dont notice that you are armed, those that do assume you are authorized, or mind their own business. I have been back at it for about a month and made myself a slow moving target that according to carry opponents would ensure that I would waste precious police resources. I have carried walking along side the road, in a grocery store, in several restaurants, in a bank and a movie theater- in every venue that I've mentioned there was one significant thing missing- there weren't any police seen anywhere.

Hmmmm,

Losing weight, getting exercise, new hair cut, fancy mustache......

Is open Carry dot org gearing up for a monthly "Beefcake OC" model contest?

Open Carry in Rural Northern California 2010 - Continued

August 9th, 2010

The evening walk resulted in contact with Shasta County Sheriffs Department.

After reviewing the audio and replaying the encounter with the deputy I have decided to limit the detail to the following anecdote. Because the incident is a matter of public record, I have no cause to maintain your suspense.

After dinner I struck out for my evening walk unloaded open carrying with digital recorder running. Instead of heading up to the bridge and back, I went the other direction, towards the newer development. This was because the sun was nearly set, and it was a shorter distance to travel. There was very little traffic. I think I was passed by one car on the way out there. (I have concluded that the driver of this vehicle is the individual who called the Anderson Police Department to report my whereabouts.) Walking up the street I passed a couple loading items in their car, a landscape maintenance man and then pedestrians, a Hispanic woman and a boy walking the opposite direction. We exchanged greetings without stopping.

Making the return part of the circuit I was passed by a late model Corvette pulling away from the foreclosure up for sale. The driver waved as he passed. I walk out of the neighborhood and plod on the home stretch.

I'm barely a quarter mile from home, when a Shasta County Sheriff Deputy pulls up slow behind me. No flashing lights, no gun drawn. He stopped and exited the SUV and engaged me as a voluntary subject and I returned in kind, as I have not yet had an open carry encounter with the S/O.
While the deputy was affable, the questioning was non stop. I may yet post some of the interrogatory highlights if I can get time to transcribe it from the audio. He learned my name and the fact that I live up the road. He was not given photo ID as I was not carrying any. As a response to part of his questioning I explained that my mode of carry was due to the revocation of my license to carry concealed. The deputy conducted a 12031 (e) check and recognized the holster and was able to draw from it unaided. He returned my firearm to my holster and proceeded to run my name for wants and warrants.

The deputy was somewhat disgruntled when he recognized that I had been recording our encounter. I think he overheard me making verbal notes explaining what I was waiting for. By this time 12 minutes had passed since he rolled up on me. I came back clean. He has already conducted the (e) check and found that I'm not wanted.

I thought that this would conclude our encounter, but he then indicates that he wants to run the serial number on my firearm. I tell him that I do not consent to the search, that since he has no knowledge that would disprove I was in lawful possession that he did not have sufficient cause to justify a search. I stated that a mere presence of a firearm isn't evidence that it was stolen. I informed him this additional search was beyond the scope of reasonable suspicion.

He deprived me of my pistol a second time without my consent and placed it in the SUV while we waited for the word to come back on its status. When he returned I informed him that I was done answering questions and that I would like my property back. When he did return my pistol, he offered it toward me grip first and I declined to take it. I told him to return it to my holster so that there is no misunderstanding. He holstered my pistol and offered me a ride to my home, which I declined in spite of the fact it was fully dark.

I was detained for approximately 40 minutes. I was not proned out at gunpoint. I was not handcuffed. I was not searched for ID or contraband. I was not physically restrained in any way. I was not falsely arrested. I walked away with my firearm in the same condition that it was in when it was taken from me. These are the things I'm grateful for.

In deference to the deputy, I wont be posting the audio or any of the non-relevant dialogue. There will however, be a letter composed for the Sheriff.

well, you posted, so it could not be ALL bad

That's just great. Now that things got a little more interesting, you tease us with "details may follow." I knew it, this thread is nothing more than one's playground into our own pathetic vicarious lives.

Seriously though, with a description of "details may follow", I'm betting it wasn't an entirely pleasant encounter.

Today I met a fellow gunner at the Wally World ammo lockup who, like you, lives in an unincorporated area of the county. The sheriff's deputies who patrol his area don't have a clue about the legalities of LOC. Sad. But it was good to meet an active pro-OC'er.

I hope you were locked and loaded (legally) and got a chance to school them on the finer points of 12031. Pretty please tell us the story!

I have updated yesterday's posting. I have stood down this evening, and should return to OC activity shortly.

Wow, forty minutes for an e-violation. I'd say that's about 38 minutes too long. Glad you have your gun back. Question, if you care to answer. Why UOC when you're in LOC country? Is this because you took a different route? Just curious.

sounds like a pretty good case for a lawsuit.

As always, up to you if you can or want to press the issue, but it IS a winning suit

Were you in an area where LOC is lawful? If so, then the (e) check was illegal. Was there any reason why you may have voluntarily extended your detainment to the full 40 minutes, or did you feel that you were not free to go the entire time? When, and how many times, if ever, did you ask if you were free to go? I'm trying to figure out why you were detained as long as you were. Some cases have been ruled as a de facto arrest due to the length of the detention. The fact that you were detained at all beyond a reasonable amount of time to conduct a simple (e) check, assuming that it was legally performed, is probably cause enough for a civil complaint. I'll be interested in following this case however it develops.

wewd said:

Were you in an area where LOC is lawful? If so, then the (e) check was illegal.

Click to expand...

Wow, good point. That one got right by me. You're correct in LOC country e-violations are more than just words, they are illegal.

I mentioned this in another post, but will say again here due to relevance. Listen to Dave Champion's audio archive for August 3rd about citizen Bill Miller who was open carrying and got violated by the police for "only" 30 minutes. He's now suing for $100K and a public statement saying they were wrong, not for the money, but to protect liberty. Right on.

im sorry to say IM so dissapointed!!

you gave up your name! your 5th A right!
you were unlawfully E checked in a LOC area?
and it sounds like you were UOC, when you should have been LOC!
your 4th A was violated to unlawfully run your serial number!

the only thing I liked about your story is making the cop re holster the gun himself!

ETA;; already sorry, and apologize for my rude response.

but the points i make are important, and should be understood.