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Thread: Guns Allowed In Church in Louisiana, Why is it not socially acceptable in Wisconsin?

  1. #1
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    Guns Allowed In Church in Louisiana, Why is it not socially acceptable in Wisconsin?

    http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/294375


    45 mins ago By ■ Kay Mathews - comments

    'Gun-In-Church' bill now law in Louisiana
    By Kay Mathews.

    Louisiana's governor Bobby Jindal signed House Bill 1272 into law allowing "guns to be carried into houses of worship...as part of a security force".
    The Times-Picayune reports that "Gov. Bobby Jindal has signed into law one of the more controversial bills from the recent legislative session, one allowing guns to be carried into houses of worship."
    House Bill 1272, the "gun-in-church" bill, was sponsored by Rep. Henry Burns (R-Haughton) and arrived on Jindal's desk June 20. Jindal signed the bill into law this week. A Senate committee had killed Burn's original bill, but Burns later tacked the legislation onto a bill concerning concealed weapon permits.
    The "gun-in-church" law allows authorized "persons who qualified to carry concealed weapons having passed the training and background checks to bring them to churches, mosques, synagogues or other houses of worship as part of a security force."
    Heads of the religious institutions, who adopt the "gun-in church" option, are required to announce via weekly bulletin, newsletter, or verbally that armed individuals will be on the property as part of the security force. Chosen members of the security force must receive eight hours of tactical training per year.
    New Orleans Archbishop Gregory Aymond was quoted by NewOrleans.com as saying:

    Well, thank God we are requiring they go through eight hours of tactical training. Personally, I don't see a need for the law. It's just very surprising to me that this was passed because even if you talk about the more challenging neighborhoods, they don't have problems inside the church. They've had problems in the neighborhood, outside the church, near the church in a park but not in the church. Theologically we have always seen our churches, synagogues and mosques as a place of refuge and sanctuary. Not a place where firearms would be used.

    Houses of worship are also allowed to retain the services of security guards or off-duty police "to protect congregants." Burns contends that houses of worship in "declining neighborhoods" or high crime areas need the security force in order to "ward off thieves and muggers," according to the Times-Picayune.
    According to the Boston Herald, churches on school property are exempt from the law.

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    Is that a non-sequitur, social from legal?

    Like drinking while armed is regarded here on WI-OCDO. Guns are legal in churches in Wisconsin but gun controllers understand that it's about control, not just guns.

    Guns are legal and socially accepted in South Carolina. The argument that an untrusting congregation is not a proper church worked there. Read Shooting Back: The Right and Duty of Self-Defense by the churchman Charyl Van Wyk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Huffman View Post
    Like drinking while armed is regarded here on WI-OCDO. Guns are legal in churches in Wisconsin but gun controllers understand that it's about control, not just guns.

    Guns are legal and socially accepted in South Carolina. The argument that an untrusting congregation is not a proper church worked there. Read Shooting Back: The Right and Duty of Self-Defense by the churchman Charyl Van Wyk.
    Do you have a link Doug? Is it an article or a book? I am interested in reading it.

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    Shooting Back: The Right and Duty of Self-Defense by Charl Van Wyk

    Quote Originally Posted by J.Gleason View Post
    Do you have a link Doug? Is it an article or a book? I am interested in reading it.
    Shooting Back: The Right and Duty of Self-Defense by Charl Van Wyk, ISBN 0 620-28120-0, published 2001 by Christian Liberty Books, Post Office Box 358 Howard Place, Pinelands, 7450, Cape Town, South Africa http://www.christianlibertybooks.co.za

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charl_van_Wyk redirects to The Saint James Church massacre

    http://www.amazon.com/Shooting-Back-...y-Self-defense

    And if that's not enough, I'll be glad to lend my copy.

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    Campaign Veteran rcawdor57's Avatar
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    Charl Van Wyk's website with video about the massacre in church that he survived.


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    Mr. Van Wyk and I have corresponded briefly and pleasantly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Huffman View Post
    Mr. Van Wyk and I have corresponded briefly and pleasantly.
    Thanks for all the info, I will read up on this. So far what I have read in the links is brilliant.

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    I can carry here in IN.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    bhancock
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    I suspect there is more than one local church in which the pastor requires the Elders to be armed for the security and defense of the congregation. These discussions were pretty common after the church shootings in Wisconsin. In our church at the time we formulated safety plans that did not include arming ourselves because it was the best we knew at the time, now I think those discussions could be a little different.

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bhancock View Post
    I suspect there is more than one local church in which the pastor requires the Elders to be armed for the security and defense of the congregation. These discussions were pretty common after the church shootings in Wisconsin. In our church at the time we formulated safety plans that did not include arming ourselves because it was the best we knew at the time, now I think those discussions could be a little different.
    I thought only owners of a business could CC so parishioners can't CC. Otherwise, please provide citation.

  11. #11
    bhancock
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    I was not involved in all the meetings in all the churches. I can say I had conversations with members of other churches about both openly carrying and one that was controversial because of a concealed carry request by the pastor. Now I am going back about 6-7 years. Unfortunately it seems that the subject has only come up in the wake of a local massacre.

    Now on the business end of things. If a church is incorporated, at least in the one I was involved, the property was collectively owned by all of the voting members of the church. If there was a split the property would remain with those that continued to adhere to the teachings of the church as outlined in the charter documents. So I am not sure how that would work in a litigation situation. I also know that all churches are not incorporated and having a constitution or some other form of charter documents.

    That is about all I know about the whole matter. I know that right now, finding a church that not only fits my beliefs and in which the members don't freak about open carry may be difficult in this area.

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    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    I thought only owners of a business could CC so parishioners can't CC. Otherwise, please provide citation.
    I can give you a couple of quotes!

    Better to be tried by twelve than carried by six. Or, out of sight, out of mind.

    Personally, I would ccw at church, although I believe it was perfectly understandable what MKEgal did since it fit the theme of the sermon. How hypocritical to have a sermon on civil rights and then call the police on someone for exercising them.

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