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Lop and concealed carry at work.

E

Explorerdude

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Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
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So this has to do with LOC and concealed carry at work. I work at a gun shop and we are allowed to loaded open carry here at work. But my question is whether, as employee, I can LEGALLY conceal carry. I've heard both sides but dont know which side is correct. I've heard since this is private property I can conceal carry loaded. But I have also heard that only the business owner can conceal carry. I don't know what is true and what is not. Any information would be appreciated.
 
Last edited:
wewd

wewd

Regular Member
Joined
May 5, 2009
Messages
664
Location
Oregon
Penal Code 12026:

Code: 
[b]12026[/b]:
(a) Section 12025 shall not apply to or affect any citizen
of the United States or legal resident over the age of 18 years who
resides or is temporarily within this state, and who is not within
the excepted classes prescribed by Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this
code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code,
who carries, either openly or concealed, anywhere within the citizen'
s or legal resident's place of residence, place of business, or on
private property owned or lawfully possessed by the citizen or legal
resident any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being
concealed upon the person.
   (b) No permit or license to purchase, own, possess, keep, or
carry, either openly or concealed, shall be required of any citizen
of the United States or legal resident over the age of 18 years who
resides or is temporarily within this state, and who is not within
the excepted classes prescribed by Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this
code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, to
purchase, own, possess, keep, or carry, either openly or concealed,
a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon
the person within the citizen's or legal resident's place of
residence, place of business, or on private property owned or
lawfully possessed by the citizen or legal resident.
   (c) Nothing in this section shall be construed as affecting the
application of Section 12031.

This is somewhat hard to read, since it is written respective to the property owner, not to anyone who has a lawful purpose for being on the private property. I don't know what the case law is in regards to this exception, if there is any, but I would hope that the courts would side with the rights of the property owner to extend his own rights and privileges to those who are lawful guests and employees on his property. I cannot make a determination whether it confers the same privileges to you as it does to your boss. You would probably be wise to consult a lawyer on this question.

PC 12031 is a little easier to read, though there are some caveats:

Code: 
[b]12031:[/b]
   (h) Nothing in this section shall prevent any person engaged in
any lawful business, including a nonprofit organization, or any
officer, employee, or agent authorized by that person for lawful
purposes connected with that business, from having a loaded firearm
within the person's place of business, or any person in lawful
possession of private property from having a loaded firearm on that
property.

It states that you may have a loaded firearm within the place of business, even if you are an employee, but it says nothing about carrying it on your person. I suppose that does not matter since 12031 is not a "carry" law, only a "loaded" law.

So the answer is yes, you can have a loaded firearm at work, but whether or not you can carry it, openly or concealed, depends on the court's interpretation of just what rights and privileges an employer or property owner can confer on his employees and guests. By the letter of the law, you could be arrested for carrying concealed at work without a permit, but this would be modified by any case law that may exist. Ask a lawyer.
 
coolusername2007

coolusername2007

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2009
Messages
1,659
Location
Temecula, California, USA
Ask your boss to pay your legal fees for the consultation and research...or...ask him/her to make you a partner. :) Then it'll be your business as well and you can open or conceal carry without worries.
 
E

Explorerdude

New member
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
4
Location
, ,
yea the law is very confusing and unclear. I've had many cops tell me that i can open carry no problem. but not even they are certain whether i can conceal carry or not. and as far as my boss paying legal fees i'd have to ask him. but i doubt he would go for it. Thanks for the information so far! Greatly appreciated!
 
cato

cato

Newbie
Joined
Oct 29, 2006
Messages
2,338
Location
California, USA
http://www.gunlawpress.com/

That book deals with your issue. Basically if I remember right you need to be owner/manager level to qualify for the concealed exemption. I haven't read it lately so not only should you read it but your store should sell it.

I'm not affiliated with the author/publisher at all...
 
E

Explorerdude

New member
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
4
Location
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CATO: thanks for the lead. that book really does have alot of information. I knew i had it here in the store somewhere and i just found it. and the answer is yes only the owner or proprieter of the business can conceal carry. That book is great am going to mention it to my boss and see if he would want to sell it here. Thanks again.
 
C

CA_Libertarian

State Researcher
Joined
Jul 18, 2007
Messages
2,585
Location
Stanislaus County, California, USA
Explorerdude said:
...I've had many cops tell me that i can open carry no problem...
Click to expand...

Well, the good news is that they probably won't arrest you for LOC on the job. The bad news is, they're giving you BAD legal advice.

See People v Overturf. (Disclaimer: reading this decision has been known to cause nausea, headaches, depression, and other adverse side effects.)

As someone else mentioned, the exclusion found in 12031(h) was found to only exclude "possession" of a firearm, not the "carrying" of a firearm.

So, loaded gun not on your person = OK. Loaded gun carried in a public area of the gun shop = misdemeanor.
 
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