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Thread: Clarification on 10 rd magazine law, please?

  1. #1
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    Clarification on 10 rd magazine law, please?

    Hello,

    I am traveling back home to WA state from AZ, I will be traveling through California. I have 20 round magazines for my XDM. My question is; is it illegal just to have those type of magazines, or only if its loaded past 10 rounds? Can I unload to 10 rounds per magazine and be legal?

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    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kildars View Post
    Hello,

    I am traveling back home to WA state from AZ, I will be traveling through California. I have 20 round magazines for my XDM. My question is; is it illegal just to have those type of magazines, or only if its loaded past 10 rounds? Can I unload to 10 rounds per magazine and be legal?
    I would suggest you go up through Nevada then into Wa.
    A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The right‘s existence is all the reason he needs.

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    Regular Member Mike Hunt's Avatar
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    Disassemble them. Then you're just transporting "parts", and you should be just fine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gundude View Post
    I would suggest you go up through Nevada then into Wa.
    I appreciate your response but I was not asking for travel advice. I was asking for clarification on the law. There are reasons I'm traveling through California. If nevada was an option, I would take it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Hunt View Post
    Disassemble them. Then you're just transporting "parts", and you should be just fine.
    I guess this would work... considering it's CA I assume there is no way I can carry it in my car loaded.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kildars View Post
    I guess this would work... considering it's CA I assume there is no way I can carry it in my car loaded.
    The number of rounds loaded does not matter, only how many rounds it is capable of holding. I know that much but can't help beyond that.

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    Regular Member ryanburbridge's Avatar
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    Copied from http://gunwiki.net/Gunwiki/LegalCaliforniaMagazines



    California Laws Regarding Magazines
    Low Capacity Magazines (10 or less) Are Unregulated
    Calfornia does not regulate magazines with a capacity of 10 or fewer rounds. Low-capacity magazines such as these are legal to buy, sell, import, trade, or build small doghouses out of. California Penal Code 12020, the same section which regulates short barreled rifles and shotguns, as well as a surprising assortment of martial arts weapons, is what regulates large capacity magazines.
    Definition of Large Capacity Magazine
    CPC 12020c: (25) As used in this section, "large-capacity magazine" means any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds, but shall not be construed to include any of the following:
    (A) A feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.
    (B) A .22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device.
    (C) A tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action firearm.
    As written, it is worth noting that the various "10/30" and other 10rd magazines sold in California with longer bodies for cosmetic or ergonomic reasons, are legal as long as the alterations are permanent. However, there are no standards of permanence encoded in the law. It is very safe to assume, however, that welded steel magazines are permanent.
    Formerly Large-Capacity, now Low-Capacity Magazines are Also Unregulated
    While I'm unaware of any other vendor doing this for random large-capacity magazines, Cold War Shooters offers a professional low-capacity magazine conversion service. There are a lot of vendors either converting and selling or simply reselling converted magazines for AR-15s, AK-47s and H&K pattern rifles. However, CWS is the only business I'm aware of which will take and convert pretty much any steel box magazine.
    Observations on California Magazine Law
    The relevant text of CPC 12020 is reproduced for you below, taken from the California Office of the Attorney General's Website as it appeared on 10/29/2007. Before you get into the minutiae, it is worthwhile to bring its summary to your attention, colored with some other items:
    For simplicity's sake, this article is written for the average individual, not law enforcement or armored car company employees or other specially empowered classes of folks.
    You may not buy magazines in another state and drive them, assembled, into California! This is obvious enough from the penal code, but it bears re-statement, as it is a common misperception in California. That is importation of a large capacity magazine, and is a crime unless you fall into an exempted class. It is legal to purchase magazines out of state, and bring in only the parts (disassemble them prior to entry, do not ever reassemble in CA), or store them out of state (storage shed, friend's closet, box buried in the desert... as long as they don't enter the state, you aren't importing them).
    A belt is a magazine. Rounds linked together in belts are magazines. The law is vague on whether you may shoot a large capacity belt (with disintegrating links) entirely, and then reassemble it to its original capacity. Strictly speaking, separating a belt into two belts of 11 or more rounds of capacity would be the creation of a new large capacity magazine. It is legally safest to keep the last 12-13 rounds of your belts loaded with snap caps or other inert rounds, so that at no point does your belt ever cease to be a large capacity magazine. If you are assembling a belt of ammunition from links, you may link no more than 10 rounds together unless you are attaching them to an existing belt with 10 rounds or more of capacity. It is unquestionable that you may legally attach an infinite number of rounds to an existing large capacity belt.
    You do not have to have receipts for your magazines. The burden of proof is entirely upon the state, to prove that you unlawfully acquired large capacity magazines. If you moved into California after 1/1/2000, or the magazines are for a gun that was first distributed after 2000, however, proof will probably be fairly easy. Note that "LE/MIL Restricted" stamps on magazine bodies are not adequate proof, due to the parts replacement section below.
    Further clarifications from the Department of Justice, which do not appear in the print of CPC 12020, are:
    "Assembling" is equivalent to "Manufacturing", according to the DOJ. While common usage would consider the prohibited act of "manufacturing" a magazine to involve folding sheet metal and making a new magazine, the DOJ feels that assembling a magazine from pre-manufactured parts does constitute manufacture. This has not been contested; it is probably wise not to contest it.
    Magazine parts are not regulated; complete magazines are. California does not have constructive possession; if you're moving in from out of state, just disassemble your magazines and keep all the parts. Should the law change, or you move out of the state later on, you may reassemble them. It would be prudent to store all the springs in a separate box from the rest of the parts, however.
    You may replace any part you want on a lawfully owned large capacity magazine. As long as the magazine continues to function in the same weapon, you are not manufacturing a new magazine, but simply repairing an old one. It is illegal to rebuild a new magazine out of the leftover parts. However, you are not required to dispose of them, or to smash them, or anything like that. If you are really worried, folks have advocated smashing the original magazine body flat and retaining it as proof that your shiny new magazine body is simply the current incarnation of an older magazine. Also, there is no single part which constitutes "the magazine". Bodies, springs, floorplates, may all be replaced at will, and there is no requirement that any part of the original magazine remain in the new one.
    A large capacity magazine may be 11 rounds, or 100 rounds. In California, the "magic switch" is when a magazine holds more than 10 rounds. Because, as noted above, you may replace parts on a lawfully owned magazine, you could replace the body and spring from a 20rd AK-47 magazine with that of a 40rd AK-47 magazine, and thus legally upgrade a lawfully owned large capacity magazine without violating the law. However, if you tried this with a magazine which was not a large capacity magazine, you would be manufacturing a new one. Don't do that.
    If a modified magazine ceases to work in the original firearm it was intended for, you have criminally manufactured a new magazine. This is why folks in California get excited about the Olympic Arms no-mods-required Sten magblock, if they already own Sten magazines, and don't get very excited about the Uzi magblocks which require modifications that make the mags stop working in Uzis.
    January 1st, 2000 was the deadline to import, make, had one sold to you (tricky wording, for a reason), or been given a large capacity magazine. If you were born after that date, or moved into the state after that date, you are basically out of luck according to the traditional reading of CPC 12020. But, see below for exemptions.
    Possession of large capacity magazines is not a crime. The burden of proof falls to the state, to prove that a crime was committed a crime by either importing or manufacturing the magazine. There are legal paths to acquire a new large capacity magazine, however they are improbable. It is not illegal to keep a large capacity magazine should you find it. Some folks claim to have found large capacity magazines in desert shooting areas, or abandoned at shooting ranges. It is not illegal to keep magazines which were found in those circumstances.
    It is not illegal to buy a large capacity magazine! The prohibited actions are, "manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity magazine", and there are various exemptions for temporary loans and such. Note that it is illegal for most folks to sell a large capacity magazine. If you were to buy a magazine from someone who is committing a crime in selling it to you, you are guilty of conspiracy to commit a crime. The interesting wrinkle in this is that, although the spirit of the law is clearly meant to restrict large capacity magazine sales to certain protected classes, as written there are certain classes of folks who can lawfully sell large capacity magazines to anyone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Hunt View Post
    Disassemble them. Then you're just transporting "parts", and you should be just fine.
    Do what he said.

    Bringing assembled large capacity magazines into CA, is considered importing (even if you are just passing through) and is a state felony [PC 12020(a)(2)].

    However, if you dissassemble the large capacity magazines into parts, then they are just magazine parts, which are legal to import/possess in CA. While the magazine parts are in CA, they can not be assembled into magazines unless they are being asssembled into permanent 10 round magazines [PC 12020(c)(25)(A)].

    So prior to entering CA, dissassemble the large capacity magazines into parts and keep them as parts until after you leave CA.

    Federal law [18 USC 926A] may provide you with protection if you import the large capacity magazine into CA while traveling through the state.
    But, in order for you to qualify, you would have to drive straight through the state with no side trips or stops (other than for fuel).
    Also note, that the Federal law will most likely come into play as a legal defense, after you are arrested and charged with importing the large capacity magazine. State LEOs may not know of the Federal law and it will be up to the lawyers to determine if you qualify.




    CA Penal Code 12020
    (a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:
    (2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity magazine.
    (c)(25) As used in this section, "large-capacity magazine" means any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds, but shall not be construed to include any of the following:
    (A) A feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.
    (B) A .22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device.
    (C) A tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action firearm.

    18 USC 926A
    Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.

  9. #9
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kildars View Post
    Hello,

    I am traveling back home to WA state from AZ, I will be traveling through California. I have 20 round magazines for my XDM. My question is; is it illegal just to have those type of magazines, or only if its loaded past 10 rounds? Can I unload to 10 rounds per magazine and be legal?
    It is illegal to manufacture, to lend, to sell, to offer for sale, to transfer, or import magazines into California with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds. While they are not illegal to possess, the police would have evidence of a crime if you had a 20 round magazine and were a non resident passing through California.


    http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/in...e_restrictions

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by PT111 View Post
    The number of rounds loaded does not matter, only how many rounds it is capable of holding. I know that much but can't help beyond that.
    Thank you.

    Quote Originally Posted by ryanburbridge View Post
    Copied from http://gunwiki.net/Gunwiki/LegalCaliforniaMagazines



    California Laws Regarding Magazines
    Low Capacity Magazines (10 or less) Are Unregulated
    Calfornia does not regulate magazines with a capacity of 10 or fewer rounds. Low-capacity magazines such as these are legal to buy, sell, import, trade, or build small doghouses out of. California Penal Code 12020, the same section which regulates short barreled rifles and shotguns, as well as a surprising assortment of martial arts weapons, is what regulates large capacity magazines.
    Definition of Large Capacity Magazine
    CPC 12020c: (25) As used in this section, "large-capacity magazine" means any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds, but shall not be construed to include any of the following:
    (A) A feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.
    (B) A .22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device.
    (C) A tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action firearm.
    As written, it is worth noting that the various "10/30" and other 10rd magazines sold in California with longer bodies for cosmetic or ergonomic reasons, are legal as long as the alterations are permanent. However, there are no standards of permanence encoded in the law. It is very safe to assume, however, that welded steel magazines are permanent.
    Formerly Large-Capacity, now Low-Capacity Magazines are Also Unregulated
    While I'm unaware of any other vendor doing this for random large-capacity magazines, Cold War Shooters offers a professional low-capacity magazine conversion service. There are a lot of vendors either converting and selling or simply reselling converted magazines for AR-15s, AK-47s and H&K pattern rifles. However, CWS is the only business I'm aware of which will take and convert pretty much any steel box magazine.
    Observations on California Magazine Law
    The relevant text of CPC 12020 is reproduced for you below, taken from the California Office of the Attorney General's Website as it appeared on 10/29/2007. Before you get into the minutiae, it is worthwhile to bring its summary to your attention, colored with some other items:
    For simplicity's sake, this article is written for the average individual, not law enforcement or armored car company employees or other specially empowered classes of folks.
    You may not buy magazines in another state and drive them, assembled, into California! This is obvious enough from the penal code, but it bears re-statement, as it is a common misperception in California. That is importation of a large capacity magazine, and is a crime unless you fall into an exempted class. It is legal to purchase magazines out of state, and bring in only the parts (disassemble them prior to entry, do not ever reassemble in CA), or store them out of state (storage shed, friend's closet, box buried in the desert... as long as they don't enter the state, you aren't importing them).
    A belt is a magazine. Rounds linked together in belts are magazines. The law is vague on whether you may shoot a large capacity belt (with disintegrating links) entirely, and then reassemble it to its original capacity. Strictly speaking, separating a belt into two belts of 11 or more rounds of capacity would be the creation of a new large capacity magazine. It is legally safest to keep the last 12-13 rounds of your belts loaded with snap caps or other inert rounds, so that at no point does your belt ever cease to be a large capacity magazine. If you are assembling a belt of ammunition from links, you may link no more than 10 rounds together unless you are attaching them to an existing belt with 10 rounds or more of capacity. It is unquestionable that you may legally attach an infinite number of rounds to an existing large capacity belt.
    You do not have to have receipts for your magazines. The burden of proof is entirely upon the state, to prove that you unlawfully acquired large capacity magazines. If you moved into California after 1/1/2000, or the magazines are for a gun that was first distributed after 2000, however, proof will probably be fairly easy. Note that "LE/MIL Restricted" stamps on magazine bodies are not adequate proof, due to the parts replacement section below.
    Further clarifications from the Department of Justice, which do not appear in the print of CPC 12020, are:
    "Assembling" is equivalent to "Manufacturing", according to the DOJ. While common usage would consider the prohibited act of "manufacturing" a magazine to involve folding sheet metal and making a new magazine, the DOJ feels that assembling a magazine from pre-manufactured parts does constitute manufacture. This has not been contested; it is probably wise not to contest it.
    Magazine parts are not regulated; complete magazines are. California does not have constructive possession; if you're moving in from out of state, just disassemble your magazines and keep all the parts. Should the law change, or you move out of the state later on, you may reassemble them. It would be prudent to store all the springs in a separate box from the rest of the parts, however.
    You may replace any part you want on a lawfully owned large capacity magazine. As long as the magazine continues to function in the same weapon, you are not manufacturing a new magazine, but simply repairing an old one. It is illegal to rebuild a new magazine out of the leftover parts. However, you are not required to dispose of them, or to smash them, or anything like that. If you are really worried, folks have advocated smashing the original magazine body flat and retaining it as proof that your shiny new magazine body is simply the current incarnation of an older magazine. Also, there is no single part which constitutes "the magazine". Bodies, springs, floorplates, may all be replaced at will, and there is no requirement that any part of the original magazine remain in the new one.
    A large capacity magazine may be 11 rounds, or 100 rounds. In California, the "magic switch" is when a magazine holds more than 10 rounds. Because, as noted above, you may replace parts on a lawfully owned magazine, you could replace the body and spring from a 20rd AK-47 magazine with that of a 40rd AK-47 magazine, and thus legally upgrade a lawfully owned large capacity magazine without violating the law. However, if you tried this with a magazine which was not a large capacity magazine, you would be manufacturing a new one. Don't do that.
    If a modified magazine ceases to work in the original firearm it was intended for, you have criminally manufactured a new magazine. This is why folks in California get excited about the Olympic Arms no-mods-required Sten magblock, if they already own Sten magazines, and don't get very excited about the Uzi magblocks which require modifications that make the mags stop working in Uzis.
    January 1st, 2000 was the deadline to import, make, had one sold to you (tricky wording, for a reason), or been given a large capacity magazine. If you were born after that date, or moved into the state after that date, you are basically out of luck according to the traditional reading of CPC 12020. But, see below for exemptions.
    Possession of large capacity magazines is not a crime. The burden of proof falls to the state, to prove that a crime was committed a crime by either importing or manufacturing the magazine. There are legal paths to acquire a new large capacity magazine, however they are improbable. It is not illegal to keep a large capacity magazine should you find it. Some folks claim to have found large capacity magazines in desert shooting areas, or abandoned at shooting ranges. It is not illegal to keep magazines which were found in those circumstances.
    It is not illegal to buy a large capacity magazine! The prohibited actions are, "manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity magazine", and there are various exemptions for temporary loans and such. Note that it is illegal for most folks to sell a large capacity magazine. If you were to buy a magazine from someone who is committing a crime in selling it to you, you are guilty of conspiracy to commit a crime. The interesting wrinkle in this is that, although the spirit of the law is clearly meant to restrict large capacity magazine sales to certain protected classes, as written there are certain classes of folks who can lawfully sell large capacity magazines to anyone.
    Thank you very much, this is what I needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by quiet View Post
    Do what he said.

    Bringing assembled large capacity magazines into CA, is considered importing (even if you are just passing through) and is a state felony [PC 12020(a)(2)].

    However, if you dissassemble the large capacity magazines into parts, then they are just magazine parts, which are legal to import/possess in CA. While the magazine parts are in CA, they can not be assembled into magazines unless they are being asssembled into permanent 10 round magazines [PC 12020(c)(25)(A)].

    So prior to entering CA, dissassemble the large capacity magazines into parts and keep them as parts until after you leave CA.

    Federal law [18 USC 926A] may provide you with protection if you import the large capacity magazine into CA while traveling through the state.
    But, in order for you to qualify, you would have to drive straight through the state with no side trips or stops (other than for fuel).
    Also note, that the Federal law will most likely come into play as a legal defense, after you are arrested and charged with importing the large capacity magazine. State LEOs may not know of the Federal law and it will be up to the lawyers to determine if you qualify.





    CA Penal Code 12020
    (a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:
    (2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity magazine.
    (c)(25) As used in this section, "large-capacity magazine" means any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds, but shall not be construed to include any of the following:
    (A) A feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.
    (B) A .22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device.
    (C) A tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action firearm.

    18 USC 926A
    Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.
    It seems that even with federal law protection, my gun would need to be out of sight. So I will just disassemble them to be safe.

    Quote Originally Posted by ConditionThree View Post
    It is illegal to manufacture, to lend, to sell, to offer for sale, to transfer, or import magazines into California with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds. While they are not illegal to possess, the police would have evidence of a crime if you had a 20 round magazine and were a non resident passing through California.


    http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/in...e_restrictions
    Thank you.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ConditionThree View Post
    It is illegal to manufacture, to lend, to sell, to offer for sale, to transfer, or import magazines into California with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds. While they are not illegal to possess, the police would have evidence of a crime if you had a 20 round magazine and were a non resident passing through California.


    http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/in...e_restrictions
    Not 100% true.

    According to the PC, if the OP had these >10 round magazines in the state of California, even for one day, or one hour, at any point in time prior to 1 Jan 2000, then he can legally bring them back into the state.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Decoligny View Post
    Not 100% true.

    According to the PC, if the OP had these >10 round magazines in the state of California, even for one day, or one hour, at any point in time prior to 1 Jan 2000, then he can legally bring them back into the state.
    And, of course, the burden of proof is on the state to prove that you didn't legally possess them in the state prior to the ban. Even then, the statute of limitations on the import ban is only 3 years, so you could completely admit to the crime with receipts and everything dating to >3 years ago, and you couldn't be touched, as they would have to prove you violated the law within the last 3 years. But as Theseus found out, the written word of the law is not the law at all if all of the state actors conspire to alter and obfuscate the law before the jury. So then the burden of proof is really on you, and unless that proof is airtight, I wouldn't chance it. Disassemble the mags.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Patriot View Post
    Isnt there a federal law that says you may "pass through" an area with an item that is locally illegal as along as you keep moving ?
    I'm 99% sure there is (but i'm too tired to spend the time researching it tonight). However, like any other legal defense to any gun-related charge... you can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride. You'll be out thousands of dollars in attorney and court fees, and that's still not a guarantee your appeal will win.
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  14. #14
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    I would suggest 2 things. Follow the rules of the firearm owners protection act to the letter, in order to make sure you're legal, and can defend yourself in court and follow up with a 1983 suit later if needed. Also, make sure anything you have that the kali JBT's would get pissy about stays very well locked up and hidden as you drive through doing the speed limit or less. And of course in the unlikely event that you get pulled over, don't act like an idiot by allowing the police to search you or answering their questions, but that shouldn't happen anyway so long as your car is properly legal and you abide by traffic laws.

    These are my procedures when traveling through treasonous enemy controlled states, and it hasn't let me down yet.

    I don't disagree with the idea of taking the magazines apart to kiss kalifornias ass and tip a cap to their oppression, but Federal law specifies that you don't have to for just passing through, which is why I personally wouldn't bother unless I was going to be visiting someone on my way through.
    Last edited by Michigander; 07-12-2010 at 12:35 PM.

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    10 rnd. Magazine Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Gundude View Post
    I would suggest you go up through Nevada then into Wa.
    The mere possession of high capacity magazines in Ca is not illegal, many people had them before the law came about. You just can't use them! Youre firearms magazine cannot be capable of holding more than 10 rounds. So a 20 round magazine loaded with 10 rounds is still illegal.

    Wyattearp (California Highway Patrol)

  16. #16
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyattearp View Post
    You just can't use [magazines which can hold more than ten rounds]!
    This isn't true. You can't use a 10+ round magazine in a OLL which fires centerfire ammunition and has a detachable magazine. If you were to have a Glock magazine which held 15 rounds that you obtained prior to January 1, 2000 and was at one time in CA before that date (or illegally manufactured/imported after January 1, 2000 and it's been three years since you've done so, and hence the statute of limitations has elapsed), then you'd be perfectly legal to use that magazine in your Glock.

    Disagree? Give a citation.

  17. #17
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    If you have not started yoiur trip just purchase 2 10 rd mags (I think they wilol fit your XDM) and travel within Kali with them. I am currently in SoKal with my XD 9mm and 2 10 rd mags. Also you can mail the hi cap mags home before you enter Kalifornia assuming you have other mags, I haver done that several times. I have to come down here several times per year for work and when that work ends I will never enter this screwed up state again, I promise.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyattearp View Post
    The mere possession of high capacity magazines in Ca is not illegal, many people had them before the law came about. You just can't use them! Youre firearms magazine cannot be capable of holding more than 10 rounds. So a 20 round magazine loaded with 10 rounds is still illegal.

    Wyattearp (California Highway Patrol)
    Being as you are an LEO (California Highway Patrol), if you state something is illegal that indicates that you would arrest someone if you saw them doing that "illegal" thing. If you arrest them, you would have to charge them under some specific Penal Code. So, what PC would you charge someone under for using a 20 round magazine in an XDM? Could you please back up what you are saying with a Penal Code reference? I don't think you can. There is nothing in the Penal Code that says you can't use a 20 round handgun magazine, and the XDM referenced by the OP is a definitely a handgun.

    Comment Added 16 July: Just what I thought, a 2 post TROLL
    Last edited by Decoligny; 07-16-2010 at 03:29 PM. Reason: Add Comment

  19. #19
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kildars View Post
    Hello,

    I am traveling back home to WA state from AZ, I will be traveling through California. I have 20 round magazines for my XDM. My question is; is it illegal just to have those type of magazines, or only if its loaded past 10 rounds? Can I unload to 10 rounds per magazine and be legal?
    Peaceful transport of firearms under FOPA: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/71...6---A000-.html

    A provision of the federal law known as the Firearms Owners’ Protection Act, or FOPA, protects those who are transporting firearms for lawful purposes from local restrictions which would otherwise prohibit passage.

    Under FOPA, notwithstanding any state or local law, a person is entitled to transport a firearm from any place where he or she may lawfully possess such firearm to any other place where he or she may lawfully possess it, if the firearm is unloaded and locked out of reach. In vehicles without a trunk, the unloaded firearm shall be in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console. Ammunition that is either locked out of reach in the trunk or in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console is also covered. FOPA also seems to provide for necessary stops, like gasoline and rest.

    Travelers should be aware that some state and local governments treat this federal provision as an “affirmative defense” that may only be raised after an arrest.
    Last edited by Gunslinger; 07-14-2010 at 11:51 AM.

  20. #20
    Regular Member mjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    Peaceful transport of firearms under FOPA: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/71...6---A000-.html

    A provision of the federal law known as the Firearms Owners’ Protection Act, or FOPA, protects those who are transporting firearms for lawful purposes from local restrictions which would otherwise prohibit passage.

    Under FOPA, notwithstanding any state or local law, a person is entitled to transport a firearm from any place where he or she may lawfully possess such firearm to any other place where he or she may lawfully possess it, if the firearm is unloaded and locked out of reach. In vehicles without a trunk, the unloaded firearm shall be in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console. Ammunition that is either locked out of reach in the trunk or in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console is also covered. FOPA also seems to provide for necessary stops, like gasoline and rest.

    Travelers should be aware that some state and local governments treat this federal provision as an “affirmative defense” that may only be raised after an arrest.
    Unfortunately, the issue at hand is importing large capacity magazines into California - FOPA is specifically about firearms.

    I think a case could certainly be made that FOPA covers magazines...but it sounds risky to me.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjones View Post
    Unfortunately, the issue at hand is importing large capacity magazines into California - FOPA is specifically about firearms.

    I think a case could certainly be made that FOPA covers magazines...but it sounds risky to me.
    The magazine is an integral part of the firearm. If that (large cap) was legal in the state where the journey began and legal at the destination, it is legal for peaceful transport. A gun is as incomplete without a magazine as it is without a firing pin.

  22. #22
    Regular Member mjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    The magazine is an integral part of the firearm. If that (large cap) was legal in the state where the journey began and legal at the destination, it is legal for peaceful transport. A gun is as incomplete without a magazine as it is without a firing pin.
    I agree with you completely that a large cap mag should be covered...simply clarifying that the door is indeed open for trouble. Weigh the risks and make an informed decision.

    My google-fu is weak at the moment, but I think I have a good federal law analogy...LEOSA

    That's the Law Enforcement Officer Safety Act - aka 50 state CCW for cops. Its my understanding that there are upheld convictions of LEOs for Large Cap Mags as well as Hollowpoint Ammo in the state of New Jersey.

  23. #23
    Regular Member Mike Hunt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigtoe416 View Post
    This isn't true. You can't use a 10+ round magazine in a OLL which fires centerfire ammunition and has a detachable magazine. If you were to have a Glock magazine which held 15 rounds that you obtained prior to January 1, 2000 and was at one time in CA before that date (or illegally manufactured/imported after January 1, 2000 and it's been three years since you've done so, and hence the statute of limitations has elapsed), then you'd be perfectly legal to use that magazine in your Glock.

    Disagree? Give a citation.
    As long as we're doing hypotheticals here, I must also point out that the statute you speak of is somewhat irrelevant, and here's why: Say for example I went to a California gun show just yesterday and ran into a gentleman who told me that he owns an armored car company. He's selling normal capacity (15rd) pistol mags. It would be perfectly legal for ME to both buy and use those mags today, since buying, posessing or using them is not prohibited. Therefore the 3-year rule is irrelevant, and would be useless to anyone who would attempt to prosecute for this.
    Last edited by Mike Hunt; 07-22-2010 at 11:14 AM.

  24. #24
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    Simple answer is you are protected by federal law when transporting firearms through a state. The chance of it even being an issue is so slim, it is almost mundane to worry about (I put it in the same category as hair splitting the ins and outs of unloaded locked concealed carry). So, were it myself, and the gun and magazines were unloaded, and locked up in the trunk, I wouldn't give it a second thought.

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